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641  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL] DiceBitco.in Signature Campaign - Continued Again... on: September 11, 2014, 09:41:06 PM
About a week in to September their site was found to be cheating some players, and everything blew up.

Many suspect them of being scammers, they claim the cheat was put in place by a rogue employee.

They asked bitcoininformation and I to pay out this month's campaign.

+1 This is a very balanced statement verses how most other people are assuming they are automatically scamming.

It is also interesting that there was a 440 BTC deposit to their cold wallet @ 19tQNCrmaW6EADfJrtBaRixRkPyVrvb6yk two days ago. I think this may make to be an interesting development.
642  Economy / Lending / Re: Need $60, will pay back $90 within two weeks on: September 10, 2014, 04:02:58 AM
your address doesn't have 70 worth of bitcoin in it
643  Economy / Lending / Re: Need $60, will pay back $90 within two weeks on: September 10, 2014, 02:48:42 AM
Wow, you're gonna give me the loan? However, I need to tell you that I'm no longer enthusiastic about paying back 90 dollars. I was getting ahead of myself when I wrote that. And I edited my first post to reflect that, but of course you didn't see it. Anyway, can we discuss a different interest rate? 70?
Just give me your stupid BTC addy.
644  Economy / Lending / Re: Need $60, will pay back $90 within two weeks on: September 10, 2014, 02:35:38 AM
I'm sure the authorities would only be interested in the person who made the transaction and wouldn't go for the second or third person down the line because of the enormously unlikely possibility that anyone but the first person was involved in the transaction.
What is your BTC address?
645  Economy / Lending / Re: 0.2 BTC return 0.22 in 2 days + Build Reputation Here on: September 10, 2014, 02:24:03 AM
I just want to build reputation here

You're begging for more red with a request like this  Wink.
Purpose: Buy S3 antiminer worth 0.58BTC
These are two very contradictory statements. They are certainly both not true. It is likely neither is true.
646  Economy / Lending / Re: I need 0.02BTC on: September 10, 2014, 02:21:08 AM
Sorry for inconvenience. I was planning to loan 0.02 not 0.2 sorry. No collateral. Since the amount is low that wouldnt be a problem i guess.
People will scam for as little as .001 collateral will be necessary for almost every loan that you want to get on here.
647  Economy / Lending / Re: Need $60, will pay back $90 within two weeks on: September 10, 2014, 02:17:20 AM
So, things have changed a bit. I now have 60 dollars however it's tied up in PayPal. Will take 3-4 business days to transfer to my bank account and then another 4 business days to buy bitcoins on Coinbase (there's a four day wait if you don't back your Coinbase account with a credit card). I made a quick video of my Paypal account to prove that I have pending transfers: http://youtu.be/seeI__n00NU  So it would be ideal if I could simply loan bitcoins immediately and then pay the loaner back once all this red tape was over with. I'm buying medication off the deep web, that's why I specifically need bitcoins. It's not heroin or cocaine or weed or anything like that. If anyone could loan be 60 dollars in light of these circumstances, that would be greatly appreciated.
So you want who ever loans you money's BTC address to be associated with an illegal drug site? Sounds like a great idea.
648  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL]DiceBitco.in Siganture Campaign - Continued on: September 10, 2014, 01:19:58 AM
Have you seen evidence that all skipped nonces should have been a winning roll? If you have not seen this evidence then the more accurate thing to say would be people who probably should have won BTC did not.

DiceBitco.in has admitted that only winning rolls had skipped nonces.

Quote from: DiceBitco.in
This "dude" (he used to say all the time) had accomplished to commit code into production that DID SKIP WINNING BETS on specified accounts. When he wanted to "alter" an account he added a field that flagged the account and made it skip winning rolls with maximum skips = 1.

He has also posted a small source code excerpt (now deleted) that has shown it *only* skipped winning bets.
I was not aware of this.
Quote
It appears that they were trying to prioritize payments somewhat. Your argument is that they profited overall from the bug. This would not be true if they had started with (estimated) 200 BTC and ended with nothing (they claim to be broke).  They either did not thoroughly investigate claims of losses enough (and "refunded" people who were not really due a refund) or the nonces were skipped on some non-winning bets as well (causing them to essentially payout huge winnings to a losing lottery ticket).

That's not my argument, they are scammers if they don't pay people winnings they should have received - even if they lost money themselves. I think they have refunded people not due for a refund (they might have lost nearly the same amount without the skipped nonces), but I still consider them to be scammers if anyone made a loss due to the rigging, whether in lost deposits or in lost winnings.

Quote from: DiceBitco.in
but in the meantime we are calling all the users that have lost bitcoins to verify their bets and if even only one bet has been skipped
we will refund their deposit up to one satoshi
My point is they lost all their money. The reason they were not able to payback everyone that was owed all of what they were owed is because they had no money left to give and thus had to prioritize. What they were doing was making bad business decisions in refunding people the incorrect amount of money. It essentially means that people were able to gamble there without risk during the time in question, if their account ended with more money then it started with then they would take all of their money plus their profits, if their account ended in the negative, they would likely have had at least one nonce skipped and thus would be made whole. They were likely rushing to make decisions in order to attempt to maintain credibility.

I wouldn't think it would have been that difficult to search their database for skipped nonces and paid out what should have been winning bets the winning amount. 
Quote
I believe this note was added prior to the last edit, and is really more of a clarification then a rule. The average person should assume this would be required without it being written.

Also the fact that the post was last edited on a certain date does not mean this statement was added at this time. I doubt that many people noticed it because it is so obvious. All it means is that they added/removed something on this date.

I agree with what you mean (the other original rules would cover it), but BitcoinInformation is implying that this is statement itself had merit retroactively which is not correct.
Fair enough, but I think he likely did not notice it before because it is such an obvious statement.
-----

The campaign is paid per post. While people swapping mid campaign would result in less exposure for DiceBitco.in, I don't think it's unfair for them to be paid the amount for the post they've already made during this month's period. After all, someone could make 200 high quality posts in the last day, claim the payout for the month, and then remove the signature.

IMO, the most fair resolution would be letting everyone drop out and pay for the posts made up to this point. They should receive equal treatment to others who has a claim to the signature ad funds.
You are correct that they could make 200 posts on the last day, however most users would likely not do this. They likely priced their campaign based on likely averages of posts made over time. It would also remove any incentive for people who have already posted the max to stay in the campaign as they would gain nothing by doing so. Dicebitco.in would be loosing out on this exposure they are due.

It would also be unfair to users who are not posting as much now (for example because they are on vacation) but would post more towards the end of the month. People that leave now would be guaranteed a full payout , while the people that stay may not get the same rate per post. They would essentially be penalized for giving dicebitco.in the exposure they are paying for.
649  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL]DiceBitco.in Siganture Campaign - Continued on: September 10, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
^ ACCTseller

I've checked my post count and wallet address, too.
They're both correct on the OP and we have to trust bitcoininformation and Dooglus. They're trying to do the best for the last month of the Dicebitco.in campaign Wink

We have to be patient and don't disturb, payments are going to be send on the pay-days.


I am not saying that bitcoininformatoin and dooglas are doing anything less then a good job at managing the campaign, I am just speculating that the source of their information may not be the best source of information. Kind of like recommending them to CYA
650  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL]DiceBitco.in Siganture Campaign - Continued on: September 10, 2014, 12:22:23 AM
--snip--
Current members

UsernamePosts at startUser IDRangBitcoin Address
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BitsBitsBits265322685Full1P28xYEDFJd9CHH7XUcZjAP52tiiyqGhsj
--snip--
@bitcoininformation

How did you validate these payment addresses are correct? Was it from the individual enrollment posts throughout the thread or was it from the OP of the signature campaign? I have not personally audited the list to make sure the enrollment posts match your list, however I might want to independently verify these addresses are actually addresses that users intend to have payment sent to. Dicebitco.in may have (intentionally or not) have incorrect payment addresses on the OP. If he was paying out then it would not be an issue, but since any payments sent to any address would be coming from a very limited set of funds it should be somewhat confirmed by each member. Either via PMing all the users in the campaign, starting a new thread for users to post their payout address, or using the address on the user's profile (similar to how PD pays out), or some other way.
651  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL]DiceBitco.in Siganture Campaign - Continued on: September 10, 2014, 12:06:50 AM

Quote
If you are referring to some users getting paid and the ones who leave the campaign early not getting paid, then this is the expected result. The rules of the campaign are that you must keep your signature up the entire period and if you drop out or take down your signature then you are not entitled to payment.

dooglus has already made an equitable measure that disregarded the actual rules. He can (and I argue he should) disregard this rule too for equity.
What rules are you referring to?

I disagree that he should ignore the rule that forces users to keep up signatures. I don't think there is any signature campaign that will pay you if you leave the campaign early. Users are being paid for both their time and their posts. If someone were to make a very good post that is looked at by a lot of people on the 3rd of the month, then dicebitco.in should have their signature displayed until the end of the month as this is what they are paying for.

The escrow was used to protect users against nonpayment. Until the time comes that users are not paid the funds should remain in escrow. Granted it may not be necessary to wait until 48 hours after the period ends to pay users as they have indicated that users should be paid from escrow at the end of the period.

Quote
It should be noted that there is not any actual evidence that dicebitco.in actually scammed.

There is. There are people who should have won BTC, but did not. DiceBitco.in has refused to pay them the winnings that they are entitled to.

Think about it, is it not scamming when you truly won a jackpot, but you are refused payout because you didn't gamble and lose all your deposited BTC?
Have you seen evidence that all skipped nonces should have been a winning roll? If you have not seen this evidence then the more accurate thing to say would be people who probably should have won BTC did not.

It appears that they were trying to prioritize payments somewhat. Your argument is that they profited overall from the bug. This would not be true if they had started with (estimated) 200 BTC and ended with nothing (they claim to be broke).  They either did not thoroughly investigate claims of losses enough (and "refunded" people who were not really due a refund) or the nonces were skipped on some non-winning bets as well (causing them to essentially payout huge winnings to a losing lottery ticket).

I suspect they likely did not invest enough in pentesting and security......but then again this does assume that mateo is not associated with them.

EDIT:
Just noticed this 'note':

Note 3: The "You need to have the Dicebitco.in signature AT ALL TIMES you are enrolled. Fail to do so will void all/any outstanding payments owed to you. Dont try to cheat!" was added before all this happened and will be enforced. (The last edit on the DiceBitco.in Signature topics is 4 days ago).

That's not something you can enforce. You can only enforce new additions to people who (re)sign up after that date. DiceBitco.in cannot make a rule saying "New rule: we hare reducing payouts by 90%, bye" and have it apply to people who already signed up and agreed to the rules in the state as they signed up.

Also, adding a disclaimer still means 'You need to have the Dicebitco.in signature AT ALL TIMES'.
I believe this note was added prior to the last edit, and is really more of a clarification then a rule. The average person should assume this would be required without it being written.

Also the fact that the post was last edited on a certain date does not mean this statement was added at this time. I doubt that many people noticed it because it is so obvious. All it means is that they added/removed something on this date.
652  Economy / Services / Re: [FULL]DiceBitco.in Siganture Campaign - Continued on: September 09, 2014, 11:03:38 PM
@dooglus / @bitcoininformation:

Which rule specifically prohibits inclusion of a disclaimer? By interpreting the rules to have this clause based on 'common sense', you are making an equitable decision.

If you're willing to make this equitable decision, you should have no problem to also make another which is that the circumstances surrounding advertising DiceBitco.in has significantly changed.

Also, preferring specific creditors over others doesn't sound like the best way to do this. You should get the total amount owed, and work out the percentage that the 10 BTC covers. Pay everyone in proportion, instead of having some creditors walk away with the full amount and others with 0.
The 10 BTC being held by bitcoininformation and dooglas is essentially collateral to secure that payment be made to participants of the signature campaign. In the event that dicebitco.in defaults on their obligations (does not pay when payment is due - 48 hours after the 30th) then the collateral (BTC in escrow) can be used to repay debt owed to the participants. Any shortfall would then be considered to be a general obligation of dicebitco.in.

The majority of the money owed by dicebitco.in (BTC supposedly lost by investors and gamblers due to the nonce skipping bug and the large winnings by the whale)  is unsecured and thus should be treated differently then secured creditors.

If you are referring to some users getting paid and the ones who leave the campaign early not getting paid, then this is the expected result. The rules of the campaign are that you must keep your signature up the entire period and if you drop out or take down your signature then you are not entitled to payment.

It should be noted that there is not any actual evidence that dicebitco.in actually scammed. Everything presented so far is speculation and conspiracy theories (I agree that it does look very bad, but they should at least be given the benefit of the doubt). To essentially amounts to blackmailing users into taking down their signature or modify it in a way that would make advertising ineffective is not the right thing to do. Anyone could equally argue that a disclaimer is warranted for any of the other signature campaigns. The difference in this case is that there is speculation that they scammed and there is essentially an angry mob after the site.

Any person considering utilizing the services of any bitcoin related site should do their homework and research the site in question. This research would surely result in them seeing these allegations and can act accordingly.

The way the escrows are working is really the most fair for everyone.

To the people who are asking for payout early - this would great for you as you would be able to join a new signature campaign early and earn more, however it would be very unfair to dicebitco.in as they would not receive the full amount of advertising they are paying for (although I honestly do not see what good additional advertising would likely do for them - however this is their decision not mine).
653  Economy / Lending / Re: OFFERING up to 4BTC loans - collateral required on: September 09, 2014, 12:57:04 AM
You shouldn't ask if the user is going to want escrow as part of the application process. It makes it look like you will be more willing to grant the loan if they agree to not use escrow.
654  Other / Off-topic / Re: Ask ACCTseller thread on: September 08, 2014, 05:10:28 PM
Why are you blocking my messages and why did you neg. rate me? I haven't said anything to you in months (if you are the real deal).
I believe that he is actually blocking PMs from everyone. It doesn't say this anymore but his signature used to say he does not deal with people via PM, and to email him if you wanted to reach him privately.
Oh, ACCTseller and Quickseller are different people..

Any of you two Blazr?
I am not sure who Blazr is, but I can say that I am not him.
655  Other / Archival / Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns on: September 08, 2014, 05:01:49 PM
BIG NEWS:

Quote
Note 5: dooglus and bitcoininformation, please proseed with payments for the sig campaign when it expires. You both have from 5 BTC in escrow from me. If people change their signature, or the funds are more than i sent you, you can keep them as a thank you for the service.

I suggest ending the campaign early and paying out as per required. (either way he doesnt seem to care about the full funds being used or not - "If people change their signature, or the funds are more than i sent you, you can keep them as a thank you for the service.")

As for the extra I would either donate it to SeansOutpost or distribute it between everyone again fairly.
I agree. There is no real reason to be advertising a site that is not safe to gamble on. I would suggest tallying up everyone's post and crediting each post by hero members 14 shares, each post by senior members 10 shares, and each full member 5 shares and then pay everyone proportional to the number of shares they have. 
656  Economy / Lending / Re: Offering single 0.001 BTC loan [no collateral] on: September 08, 2014, 06:19:20 AM
I would like to take up your offer. I can even cover the TX fees. I do have one condition though, I would need you to send the payment through 10 random BTC addresses (with the TX fees being deducted of course) before you send the BTC to my address.

The reason for my loan: to borrow $0.47 worth of bitcoin. My BTC address is below.

1ineed2borrow47centsc9nMLyPs9eBH2hq
657  Economy / Services / Re: Official updownbot.bz Signature Campaign thread on: September 08, 2014, 06:00:33 AM
To be fair it becomes quite irresponsible if people join this campaign since you ARE UpDown (I saw you post with your old account) and the way the last one finished means to me that you really need to at least use an escrow, or it encourages other companies to scam.

I am not saying that you will not pay out, and I'm certain you can prove you have the funds, but if people join this campaign it sets the tendency for other companies to come here and scam people in this manner, and that can only be a bad thing.

Escrow should be a minimum, advance payouts would also be acceptable.
youre mistaken. im doing a job is all. im not updown at all. maybe check yourself brfore throwing out accusations
A more accurate statement would have been to say: you are new and unknown to the people of these forums. You should use escrow before people start to provide you with valuable services.
658  Other / Archival / Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns on: September 08, 2014, 05:53:41 AM
Okay, I read up on that thread (thanks!) and it looks to me like the sig campaign hasn't been the issue, they're having problems with a possible hack or security breach and their bankroll.  Seems premature to put the sig campaign * up unless they actually missed a payday already.
That is exactly my reasoning. This is a "Signature overview"-topic and not a "Gambling overview"-topic, so I won't be adding an asterisk on their campaign yet. I have no reason to believe that they won't pay. This is, of course, my current opinion. It can change in the future.

Dicebitco.in (Thread)
Miscellaneous: Site is going through a major reputation crisis. Roughly 6,000 BTC has been withdrawn from the bankroll in the last 12 hours. There are accusations of cheating both users (gamblers) and investors. I would suggest adding an asterisk to the campaign and editing the description to reflect the credibility issues. Also can you please confirm that 5 BTC is still being held in escrow (preferably by providing the address funds are being held in).
I can confirm that I still hold those funds. You can check the signed message here.
The address in question has a 0 balance (see here. It looks like .05 was transferred to one address (likely your personal address to claim the tip) and 4.9998 was sent to 1MuCGwYWCDJCQJy5aoJaGSDDriRt1F2BPm on 3/9/14 via TX 140688a73d67f4bbaf59c117c3df67f115984d40e70ba469f4f9c76932648082
659  Other / Off-topic / Re: Ask TF thread on: September 08, 2014, 05:48:43 AM
Why are you blocking my messages and why did you neg. rate me? I haven't said anything to you in months (if you are the real deal).
I believe that he is actually blocking PMs from everyone. It doesn't say this anymore but his signature used to say he does not deal with people via PM, and to email him if you wanted to reach him privately.
660  Other / Archival / Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns on: September 08, 2014, 04:05:55 AM
Dicebitco.in (Thread)
Miscellaneous: Site is going through a major reputation crisis. Roughly 6,000 BTC has been withdrawn from the bankroll in the last 12 hours. There are accusations of cheating both users (gamblers) and investors. I would suggest adding an asterisk to the campaign and editing the description to reflect the credibility issues. Also can you please confirm that 5 BTC is still being held in escrow (preferably by providing the address funds are being held in).

The signature program took suspicious moves, in my opinion. They made separate transaction for each user, and released no info about the total amount paid, then closed their signature thread, so no discussion can take place about the signature program anymore, including about the reputation crisis that is happening.

At least they have escrow, but I guess might suffice to pay everyone.
They paid out ~12 btc last month (per this post). They need a little more then 18 BTC if they are able to pay out 200 posts for all 100 participants (is it 18 based on 20 full members and 80 senior members, but some people have dropped and there are a few hero members enrolled).
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