Did that guy pay? Tx id ? No advert so maybe op has had time wasted etc? Ah yes, keeping you guys updated would be smart. williamj2543 has paid me: Hello williamj2543, You have won in my " Advertise in the Signature Overview Thread"-auction. Please send me a picture (that fulfills the requirements) and an URL to which it should link. Please send the 0.04 BTC to my donation adress ( 115TJLNHbc4opemg4k22Liu4qjFjS1UpiY) and be sure to check that this is indeed my address (by looking at my profile). I will put up your ad as soon as you send me the required files and once I recieved payment. Kind Regards, BitcoinInformation Sent, Im surprised I won... Anyways Ill get that banner ready And yeah... I am still waiting for the banner and the URL where it should link to. Not much I can do. |
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The payment has been send: 8f1de07ddd69207a34f84e87371f63656f065005ca6383039fc782e997275126
What does it mean? If my post count will increase while Dooglus is outside, I'll have another payment for the rest of my message, right? Mitchell: "What does it mean? If my post count will increase while Dooglus is outside, I'll have another payment for the rest of my message, right?"
Correct right?
Dooglus: I'm gonna check sigs regularly
and split the remaining coins between people who keep the sig until I pay
according to count of new posts made
so yeah, as long as he keeps the sig
Quick update: Dooglus is currently out of town and will post here as soon as he gets back. |
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Alright, Dooglus and I have talked for a while and we decided the following: - 1. I will pay everyone (even those who dropped out/changed their signature/etc) , that have a positive post count (a few people have a negative or zero post count), with their post count at 14.21 (it's 14.38 now).
- 2. Dooglus will continue this campaign until the remaining ~5.3BTC is used up, decide for yourself if you stay or not.
Payments will be send within an hour. |
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@bitcoininformation how is the profile checker program I gave you going? Im excited to see what you are going to make with it. Haven't used it yet, since Dooglus keeps giving me all the data I need, sorry man  |
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So do we have to keep the dicebitcoin signature for the rest of the month?
I reached the maximum of 200 posts some days ago. I have no idea anymore. TF has valid points and I prefer to payout now, but nothing will happen until Dooglus is back. |
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Just a question: for october, you will open a new thread where i can sign in? No.
I'm think that I'm going to ignore most question until Dooglus gets back, because I cannot do anything without him. TradeFortress, I do appreciate the input, even though it might not seem that way. If you want to continue talking, just send me an email. |
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This is the conversation that Dooglus and I had about that paying people when they drop out part. Dooglus was sure we could payout, I am not (which is why I added the note). Mitchell: and at the end of the month we'll pay you out for the 9 days you wore it for.
Did you calculate that that's possible?
*calculate if that's possible?
If not, please change it to something else. By saying that you make a commitment that dropped out users get paid.
I still prefer to just payout and be done with it...
Dooglus: I made a spreadsheet to calculate payments
Mitchell: So, how much is it if everyone makes the max. posts possible?
Dooglus: [URL]
after 9 days the payments come to ~5 BTC
Mitchell: I see nothing at that url (except your website)
Dooglus: sorry - now?
Mitchell: Got it
Well, that is just 9 days you know...
We have 21 to go
We can't pay that much, there is no way
Dooglus: I expect lots of people will drop out
I know I would
esp. since we won't allow "disclaimers"
maybe post that we owe 4.4 BTC already after just 9 days, so won't be able to pay in full
probably
Mitchell: Alright, that sounds good I would love to payout everyone, but if we can't, well, we need to change something. I am not saying that what I said is what is going to happen. Because I need to talk to Dooglus before we change anything. Not going to say that again. |
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Yes. However, normally when conditions change, people are given the choice of opting out of the contract at no penalty. Treating these people second does apply a strong penalty.
Example: My internet plan rose from $60 to $70 a year ago. The plan is on a 2 year contract. I was notified and had the opportunity to break out of the 2 year contract (no early termination fee) if I do not wish to continue.
I'll be sending out PMs and leaving feedback to the people that still carry this signature. Well, this isn't a normal situation. Normally someone that does escrow doesn't have to do all of this. They either send back the money to the owner of the campaign or pay the campaign members fairly. Us running the whole campaign was never the plan nor something we wanted. We just stepped up and are trying to do our best. Your internet plan isn't a good example, since signature campaigns have a fixed rule: " If you drop out, you get nothing". Period. Dooglus and I decided to pay people who dropped out as good as possible, because it seems unfair to us to not get paid, because you don't want to advertise a website that is highly suspicious and scamming people. TradeFortress, what do you want us to do? Pay out right now? I would love to, but I can't do anything without Dooglus (like I said before). What's more important, Dooglus stated (yesterday) that whoever decide to drop their sig , will get paid for that period:
-snip- I already stated why he said this and what my opinion is about this. Please read the whole topic. Can I join this? And can I have others things in my signature despite DiceBitco.in sig? No, read the OP and the title. |
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You shouldn't be prioritizing any signature ad campaign creditor over another signature ad campaign creditor. So, you shouldn't 'pay out group X, then pay out group Y if there is any left'. Rather, you should add the sum of all owed amounts, find the % that is covered by the 10 BTC deposit, and spread out all shortfall equally at the end of the contract.
----
re email response: "We did say that we will payout people that drop out as good as possible, but this is done with the funds that we get when we paid out everyone that sticked with the campaign (so the funds that are left over from the campaign itself). I hope this explains that":
People who did not drop out are owed money from the signature campaign which you have escrowed.
People who dropped out are owed money from the signature campaign which you have escrowed.
They have the same claims to the escrowed amount, and should not be treated any differently. Well, people that drop out normally don't get paid at all, because they didn't fulfill the requirement to keep the signature for the period you agreed upon. We decided that that isn't fair and we will use the leftovers to pay people anyway. I know that this isn't optimal and we might have to change it to just pay out right now. We only have 10BTC and we are not certain if this is enough I think it is irresponsible to continue this campaign if you are not certain if it is enough, actually. Imagine if you escrowed selling a miner, but couldn't pay the seller in full because the buyer never sent enough. Is that acceptable? [/quote]It is not, which is why I will talk to Dooglus as soon as I get back, which I stated before if I am not mistaken. |
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Then why did you refer to it and say "[it] will be enforced"? It's clear you haven't actually read what you posted. Because it's a common rule and all campaigns use it. How else should we proceed? A campaign wouldn't pay people that change their signature, so I don't see the point you are trying to make. |
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I'm posting this in here because I think it's relevant.
BitcoinInformation has decided to enforce a provision made by DiceBitco.in retroactively. There is no authority for him to do so.
1. DiceBitco.in added in a statement on Sept 5th.
2. This statement has no merit whatsoever to anyone who enrolled before the date.
3. BitcoinInformation has said that he will enforce this statement that is without merit.
As an example, a signature ad campaign cannot add a clause saying "We are lowering this payout by 90%." and have it apply to people who have enrolled under the original rates. Contracts may not be changed unilaterally retroactively - any supposed changes are null and void to people who have enrolled. They are only bound by the rules present when they enrolled.
I welcome your thoughts on the matter.
The clause you described is something entirly different then the rule we are enforcing. Not changing your signature is a common sense rule, all signature campaigns trust you to not change/alter it or they enforce it in their OP: ...
3. Do not remove your signature or edit your initial post for 30 days
... ...
You will be disqualified and barred from the campaign if:
- you change or alter the signature during participation
- you do not meet the 50 post requirement after your time is up
- you make the majority of your qualified posts in a small time frame
- you cause serious trouble on this forum such as a flamewar or scam
... In my opinion it's a clarification and not a new rule. Also, how can you be certain that this has been added at 5 September and not before that date? The last edit was at 5 September, but that doesn't mean anything. |
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@bitcoininformation
How did you validate these payment addresses are correct? Was it from the individual enrollment posts throughout the thread or was it from the OP of the signature campaign? I have not personally audited the list to make sure the enrollment posts match your list, however I might want to independently verify these addresses are actually addresses that users intend to have payment sent to. Dicebitco.in may have (intentionally or not) have incorrect payment addresses on the OP. If he was paying out then it would not be an issue, but since any payments sent to any address would be coming from a very limited set of funds it should be somewhat confirmed by each member. Either via PMing all the users in the campaign, starting a new thread for users to post their payout address, or using the address on the user's profile (similar to how PD pays out), or some other way. Dooglus created the list posted in the OP, so I don't know how he got the addresses and starting posts. I'm assuming he copied it from the DiceBitco.in OP. Please do check that list if everything checks out.
TradeFortress, please tell me what rules we changed, as far as I know we didn't change anything. We did say that we will payout people that drop out as good as possible, but this is done with the funds that we get when we paid out everyone that sticked with the campaign. The "no changes allowed"-rule is nothing more then a clarification in my opinion. All signature campaigns enforce this by either assuming that people will respect that common rule or by stating this in their OP: ...
3. Do not remove your signature or edit your initial post for 30 days
... ...
You will be disqualified and barred from the campaign if:
- you change or alter the signature during participation
- you do not meet the 50 post requirement after your time is up
- you make the majority of your qualified posts in a small time frame
- you cause serious trouble on this forum such as a flamewar or scam
... So I do not think that this is a equitable decision.
IMO, the most fair resolution would be letting everyone drop out and pay for the posts made up to this point. They should receive equal treatment to others who has a claim to the signature ad funds. I have always been for this option, but that would violate the contract I have with DiceBitco.in. It clearly states that we use the escrow-ed funds if they don't pay out. Yes, the situation has changed, but that doesn't make the contract invalid as far as I known. The contract is the following (if you find anything that could be used as a loophole, do tell me): BitcoinInformation Escrow First Draft 30-07-2014 Basic InformationThis message will be a binding contract between Dicebitco.in and BitcoinInformation, which ensures payment of campaign members which take part in the " [DiceBitco.in] [Make the most out of your sig!] Make coins by simply posting!"-campaign. BitcoinInformation will be send a specified amount of coins which will be used to pay campaign participants if Dicebitco.in defaults or disappears. If Dicebitco.in pays in time the coins will be returned. Fee'sBitcoinInformation won't charge anything for this service, but donations are always welcome. Amount of coins to hold ontoThe coins that will be escrowed are 5 BTCProcedureThe agreed amount of coins that BitcoinInformation will hold onto will be send to the following address: 1ExgQhoWP9aEJrSYgHKRt9EF8Hwa8aFprF. Once received, BitcoinInformation will sign a message stating that he is in control of these coins to proof to the participants of the campaign that escrow has been done through BitcoinInformation. BitcoinInformation will return the coins to Dicebitco.in, once they did there first payment. If they fail to do so, the coins will be used to reimburse the participants. AgreementIf Dicebitco.in agrees with this contract he shall send the coins to the address specified above. If Dicebitco.in does not agree they are welcome to send suggestion to BitcoinInformation which will be used to improve this contract.
In the end I will have to talk with Dooglus about how we continue this. You can disagree as much as you like, but I can't do anything until he gets back (since this is something we both agreed upon doing). This, however, doesn't mean I am behind it. I really prefer to just pay people for the posts they make and be done with it. |
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Well, I couldn't resist so I ordered a HW-1 Hardware Wallet. I hope it arrives quickly, so that I can take some pictures of it and try it out  Just wondering, is the Hardware Wallet engraved or something like that (like they did with the Trezor), since it's just launched? |
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There will be no 30th in February. I see the problem and have edited the OP accordingly. This campaign will only be done this month, but the OP was talking about payments every month. Thanks for spotting it  I do realise that both of you are in pretty fucked up position, DB just left you a mess to clean up, that's not right. I don't know what are the escrow terms, I hope you did get paid for this. DiceBitco.in said that Dooglus and I could keep everything that's left of the 10 BTC after payment, but I'm not sure if there will be anything left and if there is, if I keep it. |
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allready in OP I added it to the OP, because he reminded me that you posted that. |
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good to see that this will continue
what will you do after the campaign is over and there is some money left? I already answered that question: In the unlikely event, if there are some funds left, are you going to keep it (as instructed by DB)? I have no fucking clue. Really, I don't know what I would do with it. I would most likely give it to the campaign participants. |
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Massive fairness from you, bitcoininformation, congratulation !
So, If I want to be paid, I have to wait until the end of the month? Thank you. Dooglus and I are doing everything we can to makes this a smooth ride. And yes, just wait till the end of this month to get paid. |
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OK, I'm not trying to enforce early closing, seems like you've already made your minds. But few concerns: I would recommend that everyone who is concerned that DB is a scam should stop wearing the DB signature completely, switch to some other campaign, and at the end of the month we'll pay you out for the 9 days you wore it for.
...
Note: If you drop out, we will try to pay you at the end of the campaign. We only have 10BTC and we are not certain if this is enough. Members that stick with the campaign gets paid first, then the ones that dropped out and after that, well, if there is anything left it will be either kept or send back. So there's no certainty at all whether the early droppers will get paid (anything)? That's inconsistent to what Dooglus said. Dooglus calculated that we should have enough in the end to pay for them, but I'm not sure about that. Which is why I added that note. I will talk with him about that as soon as he gets back. Also, by allowing early droppers, you don't stick to the original rules. So all the arguments in favour of sticking to the rules and not ending sooner make no sense. Well, you have a point there. I will talk with Dooglus about that as well. I don't want to make decision like that on my own. We decided to do it this way right now, but you have a good, a very good point. If the 10BTC isn't enough we will have to figure something out. We haven't worked out a plan for that just yet, since Dooglus had to go on a unexpected road trip.
That's not a rocket science, just pay proportionally. Post the calculation before the payment, so anyone can verify. That is what we most likely do, no need to attack me/us. And we will our calculations, of course. We want everything to be fair. In the unlikely event, if there are some funds left, are you going to keep it (as instructed by DB)? I have no fucking clue. Really, I don't know what I would do with it. I would most likely give it to the campaign participants. |
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They made a contract with you yet didnt stick with it. Well, they currently are sticking with it, since the contract only covers if they pay for the signatures or not. Since it isn't the end of the period yet they, technically, didn't break it. I know it sucks. Could you please update the list of members as people drop out/change signatures? Thanks I will in a few hours, so that people have time to see this topic and decide if they want to stick with the signature or not. There are still people popping up that don't know what happened. And: IF there is btc to spare, will I get paid for all the posts I have made over 200? Yes, you most likely will. This, however, isn't a guarantee, so please don't kill us if we don't. |
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