Well , people will suddenly realize that their votes don't count , just the vote of the foundation members. Something like... the government? Then , people we'll say , fuck bitcoin and it's regulation , I'm building and using bitcoin 2.0 Just like they did with fuck fiat , let's build and use bitcoin. And history repeats itself. And Utopia is one step farther away  |
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Domain ID:D168428224-LROR
Domain Name:MICROSOFTCOIN.ORG
Created On:13-Apr-2013 09:31:32 UTC
Last Updated On:13-Jun-2013 03:45:21 UTC
Expiration Date:13-Apr-2014 09:31:32 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:4e586089232cc1a0
Registrant Name:PeiFang Huang
Registrant Street1:Room403, No.155, HouPuBeiErLi
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:XiaMen
Registrant State/Province:FuJian
Registrant Postal Code:361000
Registrant Country:CN
Registrant Phone:+86.13906052173
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Well , at least I can say your account is quite interesting before I switch to reading the link. |
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Well , I heard of this happening before and my grandpa told me about how he experienced it himself.
It first started with the kulaks in Russian , and in our country after the second world war.
You have 2 cows? Your a kulak , a disgrace to the society we should take the two cows and give them to the others that all day are sitting in the yard counting clouds.
They were seen like people sucking the blood of their fellow communists workers. Siberia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What happened in reality?
After being resettled to Siberia and Kazakhstan, many kulaks managed to renew their prosperity. Their fortitude was the basis for recriminations against some sections of NKVD that were in charge of the "labor settlements" (трудовые поселения) in 1938-1939, as they were considered to have permitted "kulakization" (окулачивание) of the "labor settlers" (трудопоселенцев). The new settlers' ability to exceed the prosperity of the neighboring kolkhozes was attributed to "wrecking" and "criminal negligence".
From wikipedia.
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If someone doesn't want to be known to police, but is still willing to divulge information for a reward, they would prefer anonymous payments over a bank transfer or a face to face cash transfer.
If playsafecards have all of the characteristics of bitcoin, then could play the role of anonymous payment method as well, but I'm guessing their features are more limited.
This is what I alrady said. Bitcoin is anonymous between 2 persons. As long as it doesn't involve shipping goods to some address. Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not. So right now , everybody can donate in order to find some criminal. Why the advantage of the p2p fails? Because your system can't work without a core , because somebody has to verify the information. Otherwise I would myself put bounties on some people the moment it is launched just for fun. Also , without a central core to verify the info , how can you prevent people from reporting and afterwards giving info of fictional criminals (photos of people dead for ages) ? |
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OP, you can't have a whitelisted Bitcoin addresses only policy because you can't block people from sending you bitcoins. Anyone can send any bitcoins to you as long as there are some miners out there who will confirm any transaction. So what does Wallmart do then? Just take those bitcoins and steals them? Not to mention that you can't guarantee the address to which someone verified withdrew their coins is actually under their control... What if the verified person withdrew to an address of a friend? or a customer?
It's an infeasible, stupid and bad idea, period.
First thing you all that read this thread have to take into account is that I DO NOT SUPPORT IT! I just whant to figure out a way it might work. Now Same is with cc cards , i can send you any amount I want , just go in a bank sprout a card number and here your go. And honestly I don't have a clue what happens next according to the law. |
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All this talk about how Bitcoin's anonymity features enables crime misses an important fact: those same features enable us to fight crime.
Community watch groups can post rewards for information leading to the arrest of a criminal, and offer to pay the person who provided the information anonymously with Bitcoin.
This would allow people to do things such as take a picture of someone engaged in criminal activity, and upload it to the Crime Stopper's website, with a bitcoin address embedded in the picture. If the criminal is then caught, the community watch group would send the reward to the bitcoin address without having to meet the recipient or get their banking details.
Anonymous payments reduce the risk for people reporting crimes and receiving rewards for the information they provide. It increases the ability to fight crime in a decentralized fashion. It reduces the ability of violent and dangerous individuals to keep those in their community silent through fear.
Edit:
The reason you should want to see this happen is that if Bitcoin's digital cash features, like anonymity, are used by law enforcement to fight crime, the likelihood of regulations being passed against the use of Bitcoin will be less.
Well , in this case bitcoin payments (rewards) have no upper hand over other kind of payments. Bitcoin has it's strength in anonymous transactions between 2 people. In this case , only the payer (donor) has to be anonymous. Paysafecards (?) available in like 1 million places and around 10 times easier to buy? |
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...or they just use dollars.
If businesses will accept this STUPID idea, for example McDonald etc....i am sorry, but this will be end of bitcoin because you will have not single store whereyou can use it as now
Why will it kill bitcoin? Most people will get a bitcoin trusted address like they do now with paypal or a cc card and get over it. All the advantages bitcoin was suppose to have (small fees , easy to use , fast trasactions) are going to be forgotten because the merchants request an id in order to buy from them? The ones who don't want it... they don't want it and that's it. Nothing you can do about it. If McDonalds embraces this idea i bet that in 1 month we'll have at least 20k verified addresses. It can be wrong, but I choosed this extreme argument, because i think it can show you something, what you are missing. If I understand this right...Let's say you are in the world, where BTC is 1# currency and the blacklisting/redlisting or whatever is working...you are in the country where prostitution / drugs are illegal (almost all countries in world). Now tell me one thing...how are you gonna pay? Sure you wouldn't pay with bitcoins (all prostitution and drug bitcoins and adresses would be blacklisted, right?), would you? Because if in any time in future the prostitute or drug dealer will be caught, they will track the bitcoins to you...And you know what? How the tv show character Walter White said in the Breaking Bad.... "Do you really wanna live in a world without Coca-Cola?"... i don't... I am not saying, that i approve drugs or prostitution...no, but people should have their own choice to decide if they want to make stupid things or not...that is a life... Nobody can track dollar bills, if there would be some way, they would already track it...bitcoin bring this possibility to the governments.....so if this will happen, our freedom will be smaller than it is now and privacy? In few years, there will be no such thing as a privacy... So after all, when bitcoins will "win" the battle for #1 currency, in exchange for our financial freedom and privacy...i think many people would say: You remember the dollar? Yeah man, good old times....  I don't know, i am just thinking something like this surely can destroy bitcoin and the sooner you will get it, the sooner we can take some actions against it as a community, together... What did you smoke? You're seeing as a problem that people can't do anything illegal? Well , let me give you another example , maybe you realize what stupidity you just said: Control chips are installed on birth and the first thing people are scared of is : "I can't kill my neighbor anymore" First...Thanks to bitcoin, I smoke Cohiba Behike  what do you smoke? ..Second, I wrote: "It can be wrong, but I choosed this extreme argument, because i think it can show you something, what you are missing." It didn't show you what you are missing here and you didn't understand it at all so better read posts from other members, maybe than you will get it, but basically i wrote the same, i was just hoping you will see the problem here in this scenario, but from your posts i have that feeling we both are living in two different worlds so let's just agree to disagree... EDIT: Prostitution and buying weed in Netherland is legal....your "can't kill neighbor anymore" example is stupidity for me, because it is not the same and exactly because you don't get this, that its not the same, you are not understanding my point above....we are living in two different worlds...I want the freedom to decide, you obviously don't...  Can you pay in a weed shop in Netherlands or in a brothel with a visa card issued in France? |
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...or they just use dollars.
If businesses will accept this STUPID idea, for example McDonald etc....i am sorry, but this will be end of bitcoin because you will have not single store whereyou can use it as now
Why will it kill bitcoin? Most people will get a bitcoin trusted address like they do now with paypal or a cc card and get over it. All the advantages bitcoin was suppose to have (small fees , easy to use , fast trasactions) are going to be forgotten because the merchants request an id in order to buy from them? The ones who don't want it... they don't want it and that's it. Nothing you can do about it. If McDonalds embraces this idea i bet that in 1 month we'll have at least 20k verified addresses. It can be wrong, but I choosed this extreme argument, because i think it can show you something, what you are missing. If I understand this right...Let's say you are in the world, where BTC is 1# currency and the blacklisting/redlisting or whatever is working...you are in the country where prostitution / drugs are illegal (almost all countries in world). Now tell me one thing...how are you gonna pay? Sure you wouldn't pay with bitcoins (all prostitution and drug bitcoins and adresses would be blacklisted, right?), would you? Because if in any time in future the prostitute or drug dealer will be caught, they will track the bitcoins to you...And you know what? How the tv show character Walter White said in the Breaking Bad.... "Do you really wanna live in a world without Coca-Cola?"... i don't... I am not saying, that i approve drugs or prostitution...no, but people should have their own choice to decide if they want to make stupid things or not...that is a life... Nobody can track dollar bills, if there would be some way, they would already track it...bitcoin bring this possibility to the governments.....so if this will happen, our freedom will be smaller than it is now and privacy? In few years, there will be no such thing as a privacy... So after all, when bitcoins will "win" the battle for #1 currency, in exchange for our financial freedom and privacy...i think many people would say: You remember the dollar? Yeah man, good old times.... I don't know, i am just thinking something like this surely can destroy bitcoin and the sooner you will get it, the sooner we can take some actions against it as a community, together... What did you smoke? You're seeing as a problem that people can't do anything illegal? Well , let me give you another example , maybe you realize what stupidity you just said: Control chips are installed on birth and the first thing people are scared of is : "I can't kill my neighbor anymore" |
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Too bad, soon we will need large scale money laundering in BTC too.  Blacklist the greenlist. I cannot repeat this enough. Do not accept money from them, or send money to them. Do not process their transactions if you mine directly. Actually in this way , aren't you doing the thing they shouldn't have done and the thing you are against them doing ? |
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So , Walmart is announcing:
"We accept bitcoins""From cointrusted addresses only"
What happens if you send coins from not cointrusted addresses ? Returned or confiscated ?  It's like going to the electric , gas company or whatever and telling them ... i left a few dollar bills by your door yesterday , did you get them? How can you prove that you indeed have sent those bitcoins ? |
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Another solution is to use the green list like a black list: ask people to supply you with the address they will use to send you funds. If it's green listed, refuse. If they trick you, send the funds back to them, threaten to send it as fees.
If possible, miners should reject transactions to or from greenlist addresses. If not possible, start using p2pool and make it possible. Greenlisting and licencing will be coming to mining anyway. Fuck these people and their greenlist.
Blacklist the greenlist.
In the meantime , Mike Hearn is speaking about redlist" "I would like to start a discussion and brainstorming session on the topic of coin tracking/tainting or as I will call it here, "redlisting". Specifically, what I mean is something like this" This rainbow stuff if giving me a headache. |
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And I have that BIGGGG feeling I'm missing something right? correct first thing. coinvalidation are just a business. they are not government. they are simply business advisers trying to help bitcoin BUSINESSES to comply with the regulations. second thing regulations only apply to businesses that deal in the FIAT side of things. EG. exchanges, businesses converting to fiat for supplies, wages and tax purposes. third thing. as it says in the PDF on coin validation site for end users. they are not asking for end users information. take this as the example.... coinvalidation talks to bitstamp, ensures they have a policy that covers all of the FIAT exchanging policies. EG the wire transfer regulations of $1000 requiring AMLKYC if done in a short period or $10k over a year.(allowing bitstamp to lower daily limits and yearly limits to reduce personal risk) to be on the look out for transactions that are obviously linked to a crime. EG 1 TXID hop away from a silk road address.. they then accredit bitstamp as being a clean legit and compliant business to be listed in their database. all bitstamp withdrawal pubkeys are then treated as clean.(meaning the addresses where bitstamp hold the private key) now then imagine alpaca socks shop see's a TXID that can be coinverified as coming from bitstamp. and another TXID showing a 1 hop taint from a known silk road withdrawal address.. alpaca socks will probably accept them both, as they are for small amounts of funds..so not much risk, infact places like alpaca wont even use coinvalidation service due to the small transaction values. now imagine a car showroom or real estate..they would accept the bitstamp clean TXID but not the silk road TXID.. and would use the coinvalidation service. coin validation is not in the game of asking for driving licence information from EVERYONE.. all they ask is that the businesses that are accredited as clean and compliant on their database, are compliant. meaning bitstamp will ask for AMLKYC for customers wanting to withdraw FIAT above the daily limit. this has been the regulations for years, concerning businesses dealing in large transactions. coinvalidation just want to be the offionado's to offer business advice and help businesses easily identify blackmarket known addresses. Why bother counting the coins , when they can go over individuals. It's like a bank going to track all the papers bills I deposit instead of looking to my account withdraws and deposits. Put a label on an address and attach it to a person. The the person is responsible how he spends the money. And how he gets it. You receive money from unknown source? 1) give them back 2) use them which makes you guilty It's already happening and this works with credit cards right? Why not with bitcoins. I see the whole damns txid as a way to complicate everything. Also this version defeats every mixing / dark wallet services. |
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This is not possible. Sorry to disappoint you.
Yes it's 100% possible to build a generator. Yes it's possible to hit a jackpot with it , but chances are 0.00000... my fingers hurt... 1% Second , people like to cling on that 2^256 , which is not quite right. Let's assume for instance there are only 10000 combinations. And the most advanced supercomputer is doing 1/second . John has password 1823 , Jerome 5674 , and Maya 7777. Well , it didn't take 10000 seconds for their passwords to get cracked right? Same with passkeys , some will be safe till the dinosaurs are hit again by an asteroid , thousands of them are cracked right this second. Also , do you know the amount of passkeys is not equal to the amount of addresses? Just a though about how secure your password might be. Still, there are only 2^160 possible addresses from the 2^256 pool due to RIPEMD-160. Sorry , I think I read above in this thread 2^256 and took that for granted without even thinking back. |
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It will take forever to ... what? Get them all? yeah! Get a few of them ? it's a nanosecond job.
If it was that easy, someone would do it. Got to https://www.bitaddress.org , bulk wallet and there you go... you can generate 10000 adresses. Chance on getting one with some bitcoins hiding there , close to 0 , but it's still a possibility. It is not impossible. |
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Yes it's 100% possible to build a generator. Yes it's possible to hit a jackpot with it , but chances are 0.00000... my fingers hurt... 1% Second , people like to cling on that 2^256 , which is not quite right. Let's assume for instance there are only 10000 combinations. And the most advanced supercomputer is doing 1/second . John has password 1823 , Jerome 5674 , and Maya 7777. Well , it didn't take 10000 seconds for their passwords to get cracked right? Same with passkeys , some will be safe till the dinosaurs are hit again by an asteroid , thousands of them are cracked right this second. Also , do you know the amount of passkeys is not equal to the amount of addresses? Just a though about how secure your password might be. That's incorrect. The private keys have so many possible combinations that it would take pretty much forever with the current processing power. That's as far as I'm acquainted with the subject. It will take forever to ... what? Get them all? yeah! Get a few of them ? it's a nanosecond job. |
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wait when did walmart announce they were accepting bitcoin?
And I see a way it might actually work , but first let's assume those guys have a plan , and they have an ace in their hand. Something like a big company wanting to start accepting bitcoins but concerned about the mess around it. I wouldn't be here on the forum but rather drunk already if that were the case. |
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It all started with : http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/11/13/sanitizing-bitcoin-coin-validation/And next moment we have the reactions : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=332918.0Well , I went to : https://coinvalidation.com/ , downloaded the pdf, for users , saw page with 3 rows and 100 words and nothing solid. I think that we're got the wrong impression here. I saw the word "addresses" to many times in the forbes article and then this paragraph in the pdf files: "We have developed tools and relationships that provide Bitcoin businesses with a full “know your customer” compliance suite. " From my point of view I think the word Coin is misleading. My opinion is that the project is aimed at the addresses. And I see a way it might actually work , but first let's assume those guys have a plan , and they have an ace in their hand. Something like a big company wanting to start accepting bitcoins but concerned about the mess around it. So , Walmart is announcing: " We accept bitcoins"" From cointrusted addresses only" Most of the people will jump in ,and how can I get and use a cointrusted address? It's simple , 1) Go to any trusted exchangers , verify your identity and buy bitcoins which will be sent to a new address you specify The address has to have a 0 balance and no previous history. 2) Now , you can go to Walmart and buy with bitcoins , from that address , because Walmart has a white list common with those exchangers and only people on that list can make purchases. Nothing new from "we only accept Visa and Mastercard , not AE" The results will be something like: -Walmart knows that you are a verified customers (they can have your id) -People when exchanging bitcoins know that this guy has some verified papers. -You know that you actually have some kind of ownership on that address and can prove in court that "You John , on 11/1/12013 sent to Michael 245 Bitcoins" And on the surface everybody is happy , right? People who don't want to enroll , are (  ) not forced to enroll. And I have that BIGGGG feeling I'm missing something right? Here's the bit you're missing. Let's say I want to buy stuff at Walmart, like you say, and I already have bitcoins. So my only option is to go to a "trusted" exchange and get their trusted bitcoins sent to my new trusted address... but will that exchange accept my (not yet) trusted bitcoins? Will they take them at all, will they charge me a premium for taking them? Go through the same process with dollars. Let's say governments around the world institute a policy that from now on they'll only allow "clean" dollars to be transacted (for argument's sake, let's say dollars that have never touched cocaine). You have instantly created two "classes" of dollars. To shift the argument from coins to wallets is just slightly moving the goalposts. The good news is that it's never going to work for a number of reasons: 1) There are already almost 12 million BTC out there, chances are all or some contain at least some smidgeon of taintiness. 2) There are way too many addresses. 3) There are way too many ways of getting the coins to the addresses. 4) China doesn't give a damn... Germany doesn't either... neither does Canada... or Iceland... 5) The people who are behind this impetus to "clean" Bitcoin are arguably not precisely pristine themselves... all sorts of hilarity will follow. Of course they will accept your previously non verified bitcoins form an unknown address because you'll have to provide papers when you do the exchange ... nothing new from how thing are going 1) a paper bill was used to pay a criminal , after 20 years i'm paid with that bill , it it tainted? am i going to jail? this kind of regulation has nothing to to with the bitcoins , but with the account 2) accept from x , deny from rest , numbers don't matter to such a system (just like the .htaccess ip filter) 3) i'm not getting what you want to say 4) have you as asked them ? 5) that is for certain. |
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Can you please confirm that we are enrolled ? Or that you accept new members?
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On a side note i just realized that if this will happen then mixing services will spawn like mushrooms after rain and miners will benefit the most of it because there will be a lot more transactions than before. Opinions?
If they go after the coins not the adresses: You have my opinion here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333586 |
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