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This does not mean block chain is wrong - block chain is a technology likely with a lot of good commercial applications, just like the internet.
A blockchain without tokens is just a distributed database. There's nothing new about that. It's like claiming that telephone lines were the innovation behind the internet. It's when piecing the various parts together that lead to cryptocurrencies that things get interesting. But similar to the dot-com bubble almost all of the current investments in "products" using block chain completely lack a fundamental sound business model, and the cryptocurrencies are foremost amongst those.
I absolutely agree with the first part of your sentence -- that blockchain "investments", specifically ICOs and such -- completely lack the fundamentals of what makes a worthwhile investment. I also agree that in this part of the crypto-ecosystem there's a lot of shady shit going on, trying to sucker people into what they believe is quick money. The point I am trying to make is that Bitcoin is not simply one of many startups -- it's the fundamental technology that lies at the heart of it. It is not the equivalent of dot-com company -- it's the equivalent of the internet. No. Wrong. Block chain is the technology. Bitcoin is merely one use of the technology. |
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Wow - a lot of dancing around to avoid the word "ponzi" being attached to Bitcoin. A turd is still a turd no matter what you call it.....
This is progress. Your original premise is that BTC is a turn because it was like a ponzi scheme. Now that we agree it is not like a ponzi scheme, perhaps you can clarify your argument. On the spectrum of turdiness, is BTC more or less turdy than an early stage biotech startup? Is it more or less turdy than a Canadian platinum mining play? Is it more or less turdy than Tesla? The only thing I think we can agree on is that you appear to be in category #2 |
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It is interesting to see to what lengths are some people on this forum prepared to go to "enlighten" the participants here that this is all wrong. Somehow i doubt their altruistic reasons. I'm just waiting to see something along the lines of "BCH is better"...
All cryptocurrencies are the same. If you truly value your savings stay out of all of them.... If you want to invest in blockchain technology, look for companies focused on having an actual solid business model - just as Amazon had a solid business model during the dotcom bubble where everything named ".com" saw valuations skyrocket only to crash and burn. The clearest indication that the peak of the bubble is nearing is when a company's valuation quadrouple simply because they put the word "blockchain" in their name: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/27/biz_quadruples_value_over_night_by_adding_blockchain_to_name/ |
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Only uninformed, desperate individuals only put their life savings into bitcoin. Unfortunately, there are some. But your claim on bitcoin is a ponzi without actually backing it is intellectual dishonest. I bet you're just whinny about your transaction and didn't consider some things like this is an open source project and almost all of the efforts going on are voluntary. People here are diverse.
It is clearly a ponzi scheme looking in here. Nothing but lots of people being busy talking up the price spouting messages about how this will finance their house and car or other posts about how you can convince friends and family to "invest" in Bitcoin as well. The more people are brought into it, the higher the price. Oh, it is abundantly clear what is happening here. Some very smart people have bought bitcoin and are perpetrating a long-term pump-and-dump where they are slowly selling out while they ride the curve upwards. The ones being left holding the bag when the whole thing collapses are the ones who are indeed uninformed desperate individuals who are then left even more desperate not only having lost their own savings, but also stand with the shame of being responsible for friends and family suffering losses as well. So yes, people in here are diverse. Some are preying on the weak, and some are being preyed upon. you'll need to provide supporting references to your assertion that bitcoin "is clearly a ponzi scheme". what makes you say that it is so? what features of a ponzi do you see that you liken it to bitcoin? you'll have to elaborate on that here....or are you just saying that because that's what you've read and understood certain personalities like Jamie Dimon, Warren Buffett, or that Asian Bank exec say in the news like bloomberg, cnbc, and other news outfits covering bitcoin news? i skimmed through some of those bits of news and recalling what i understood there, Dimon referred to bitcoin as a fraud and yet mentioned that it is a currency in a bubble that could reach $20k before it bursts... i think that maybe, he just hasn't reached the thought yet that our medium of exchange and assets could still evolve and change, and that in this digital age, a commodity or asset could in fact be digital or virtual. an adviser of allianz, Mohamed El-Erian, admired blockchain technology but expressed uncertainty over the bitcoin price. he didn't say anything about bitcoin being a ponzi but he appears to be in a stage of accepting the idea that virtual commodities can be a store of value. Warren Buffet was intrigued by blockchain tech saying it's a very effective method of transmitting money and you can do it anonymously. however, he believes that bitcoin had "no intrinsic value" - so he didn't say ponzi. you don't need to "recruit" people to buy bitcoin and earn from their purchase. so what makes you call bitcoin a ponzi? the amount of investment people are putting in bitcoin is their choice. when you invest in bitcoin, it's your responsibility to learn what it is that you're getting into. if you put all your money there, and the price goes down, then you have nobody to blame but yourself. it was after all, your choice to put in that big an amount. so if you're worried about all those people who're investing big, then you're fussing over something that you cannot control. that was their choice. you should make yours. if you don't understand bitcoin, stay away from it. Wow - a lot of dancing around to avoid the word "ponzi" being attached to Bitcoin. A turd is still a turd no matter what you call it..... |
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for a very long time which is nearly 9 years now, bitcoin had no issues, empty mempool and low fees even as low as 0 satoshis. and you were nowhere to be seen.
Why should I bother when no-one apart from a group of people were playing around in a sandbox. I couldn't care less. But when I now see that a lot of people with absolutely no financial knowledge stand to be cheated out of their lifesavings because immoral people are convincing them to jump onboard, then I do care. Perhaps a good illustration is from one of the other discussion threads in here where people were talking about what the main advantages of Bitcoin was. In here there was the following: "bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time" Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme. If you are involved, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself: Am I the one being cheated, or am I the immoral bastard who is cheating someone else out of his life savings ? Bitcoin is one of the greatest technological innovations of the last few years. Sure, there are people that are trying to make a quick buck out of it, but that still doesn't change the fact that cryptocurrencies have the potential to change the financial landscape for years to come. No one is forcing anyone to enter this market. Did you blame the world wide web for the dot-com bubble? Does the current arguably questionable valuation of silicon valley companies reduce the value of the internet? You can argue about whether current Bitcoin exchange rates are appropriate, but that doesn't change the value proposition that crypto-currencies bring to the table. That is completely the wrong comparison. During the dot-com bubble a lot of people lost their money because as soon the word "internet" was mentioned, stupid investments were made. That doesn't change the fact that the internet was a great technology with many uses. But in the bubble only very very few actually had a sane business model - and they were the ones who made it (like for example Amazon). Most "normal" people who jumped on the bandwagon were lured in by rapid increases in valuation and lost out big time. Right now we are in a similar bubble - except it is a blockchain-bubble. As soon as the work "blockchain" is mentioned stupid investments are made, and the vast majority of these will collapse similar to the dot com bubble. This does not mean block chain is wrong - block chain is a technology likely with a lot of good commercial applications, just like the internet. But similar to the dot-com bubble almost all of the current investments in "products" using block chain completely lack a fundamental sound business model, and the cryptocurrencies are foremost amongst those. |
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!
"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart" In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme ) So you fundamentally misunderstand the bitcoin network. By your definition of a ponzi, if somebody sells me Apple stock that they purchased for a lower price, then they are participating in a ponzi scheme. The bitcoin network is transparent. There are no paper profits. Madoff falsified account documents to create fictitious profits. When someone wanted some or all of their money, he raided the account of other investors to make the payout. This is how a ponzi scheme works. You clearly do not get the point - or maybe you do not want to get the point. Back to whether you see type #1 or type #2 when you look in the mirror |
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The whole financial collapse in 2007-08 is a pretty good example. At least there governments stepped in to salvage some of the damage done. For the cryptoworld there will be no such action. Even now many are finding it extremely hard to transfer Bitcoin - it takes hours or days. When the roof caves in, there will be no financial salvation of anyone trapped within and there will be no chance of selling out before all is lost
It was bad. Not a ponzi. A turd by any other name is still a turd |
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freightjoe has a point, many blind believers in these forums. That being said, if Bitcoin was a ponzi scheme, it would be over by now IMO.
Currency, no. Here I agree with you.
good posting. I only have one comment - namely that the Ponzi scheme which Bernie Madoff lasted for decades and had a magnitude of more than 60 billion USD when it collpased, hence they can indeed last for quite a while.... |
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I’m not sure how you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme!
"Ponzi schemes rely on a constant flow of new investments to continue to provide returns to older investors. When this flow runs out, the scheme falls apart" In this case the returns are in the form of a higher price on Bitcoin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme ) |
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"bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time"
Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme.
there are always idiots who use things in a different/wrong way than they should be using them, that doesn't make those things wrong. it makes their usage wrong. i saw someone kill with a kitchen knife, does that mean you are a murderer because you have kitchen knives at home?  Wow - you defend Bitcoin the same way some Americans defend why they need to have guns, with the result being an extreme amount of mass-shootings. I have no idea why you wanted to put Bitcoin in the same context as mass shootings, but to each his own I guess..... |
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Have you even considered the implications of regulatory approval to create a bitcoin futures market on the CME?
And then the approval to create BTC exchange traded funds (ETFs)?
These are not events that occur for ponzi schemes.
Of course they are  . Read up on Bernie Madoff who is now in jail for the biggest ponzi scheme of all time in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_MadoffHe was a top market-maker on Wall street not to mention non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ hence your arguments prove absolutely nothing Madoff was a classic ponzi. He operated outside of the scrutiny of regulatory oversight. Exactly the opposite of the CME and any BTC ETF. Where are the CME sponsored ponzi schemes? The whole financial collapse in 2007-08 is a pretty good example. At least there governments stepped in to salvage some of the damage done. For the cryptoworld there will be no such action. Even now many are finding it extremely hard to transfer Bitcoin - it takes hours or days. When the roof caves in, there will be no financial salvation of anyone trapped within and there will be no chance of selling out before all is lost |
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Have you considered my previous question about looking in the mirror and figuring out which one of the two you are?
I am neither. Nor is anyone on this board. In order to define BTC as a cheaters game, you have to conclude that virtually every investment opportunity is "cheating". People who buy bitcoin are only cheated in the same way that people buy stocks or real estate or commodities as investment. The price either goes up or it goes down. then it seems to be choice #1 |
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Does really someone really take serious this post? Not see it's just a trolling without sense and arguments are poor?...
Thank you for proving my initial point - this forum is an echo-chamber of the believers only talking to each other, and are too thin-skinned to accept a dissenting opinion |
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Have you even considered the implications of regulatory approval to create a bitcoin futures market on the CME?
And then the approval to create BTC exchange traded funds (ETFs)?
These are not events that occur for ponzi schemes.
Of course they are . Read up on Bernie Madoff who is now in jail for the biggest ponzi scheme of all time in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_MadoffHe was a top market-maker on Wall street not to mention non-executive chairman of the NASDAQ hence your arguments prove absolutely nothing |
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Note, BTC is not implicated, it is too big.
ahhh..... so big in itself means it cannot be manipulated? Guess we should let Bernie Madoff out of jail then..... Have you considered my previous question about looking in the mirror and figuring out which one of the two you are? |
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for a very long time which is nearly 9 years now, bitcoin had no issues, empty mempool and low fees even as low as 0 satoshis. and you were nowhere to be seen.
Why should I bother when no-one apart from a group of people were playing around in a sandbox. I couldn't care less. But when I now see that a lot of people with absolutely no financial knowledge stand to be cheated out of their lifesavings because immoral people are convincing them to jump onboard, then I do care. Perhaps a good illustration is from one of the other discussion threads in here where people were talking about what the main advantages of Bitcoin was. In here there was the following: "bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time" Bitcoin is indeed a get-rich-quick-scheme. If you are involved, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself: Am I the one being cheated, or am I the immoral bastard who is cheating someone else out of his life savings ? |
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absolutely right, bitcoin is one of the biggest potential to make us become rich in quick time.
Ahhh.... in other words the advantage is that Bitcoin is a "get rich quick" scheme. Clearly one of the strongest signs to run away from this as fast as possible |
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Only uninformed, desperate individuals only put their life savings into bitcoin. Unfortunately, there are some. But your claim on bitcoin is a ponzi without actually backing it is intellectual dishonest. I bet you're just whinny about your transaction and didn't consider some things like this is an open source project and almost all of the efforts going on are voluntary. People here are diverse.
It is clearly a ponzi scheme looking in here. Nothing but lots of people being busy talking up the price spouting messages about how this will finance their house and car or other posts about how you can convince friends and family to "invest" in Bitcoin as well. The more people are brought into it, the higher the price. Oh, it is abundantly clear what is happening here. Some very smart people have bought bitcoin and are perpetrating a long-term pump-and-dump where they are slowly selling out while they ride the curve upwards. The ones being left holding the bag when the whole thing collapses are the ones who are indeed uninformed desperate individuals who are then left even more desperate not only having lost their own savings, but also stand with the shame of being responsible for friends and family suffering losses as well. So yes, people in here are diverse. Some are preying on the weak, and some are being preyed upon. |
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If you have bitcoins you don't have to pay any taxes to the government you have the full rights of using it and no one can take your bitcoins without your permission.
In other words - to you the main advantage is that it allows you to be a criminal and avoid paying taxes |
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Bitcoin is the king of cryptocurrencies and I see bright future.
Thank you for illustrating my point that Bitcoin is nothing but a religion based on faith |
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