A lot of people are panicking in the wrong direction.
If this is true, the last thing you should do is sell your BTC on Mt Gox for USD, because you might lose access to those dollars for an indefinite period of time. A more productive way to panic would be to buy up as many BTC as possible and withdraw those.
Yup this is the best course of action and it will give much needed liquidity to other exchanges and away from Gox. I was concerned about the lawsuit so I moved the remaining fiat out of my Gox account in case SHTF down the road with the lawsuit. I didn't think anything would happen this quickly although we don't know if the two are related or not. I'll probably do purchases going forward via Coinbase (have used them multiple times in the past, great service). Fiat stays in my FDIC insured bank account until I need to make a purchase, then I move the BTC out of Coinbase once the ACH clears to a paper wallet. Minimizes the time you have to trust these exchanges. |
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Wow talk about good timing, I emptied my Gox account via Dwolla two days ago. Beginning of the end for MtGox I think, and good riddance.
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He's still sending the PMs despite claiming recontrol of his account and a new password.
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The problem is if you go through a third party, you don't know how much debt they've created. You can set a limit on how much you trust someone but there's no way to know how big of a leveraged position they're playing in aggregate. In other words, there's a fundamental lack of transparency. There's no point in Ripple if this is the case as we're back to the fundamental problem with current governments that we're trying to escape.
That's a problem that has to be addressed outside of Ripple itself. One possible solution is to only extend trust to people who you know, and who you trust to provide you with accurate information about their personal balance sheet. There's stickies and posts all over this forum stating to, "trust no one." Also, that's a tremendous amount to ask of someone. Lets say I trust you up to a $50 IOU. Are you willing to disclose to me all of your personal financial information for $50? $100? Most people will be reluctant to make this sort of information public and even if they do, validating their claims is difficult or expensive (third party audit). The problem all goes back to peer-to-peer lending, which is what it seems Ripple is despite the duration of the loan. Peer-to-peer lending is based on unsecured loans and there is ample evidence (including past projects of one of OpenCoin's founders) that this model does not work. So the question to me then becomes what if we allow for secured IOUs? So basically you can issue $10,000 in IOUs so long as you have $10,000 in collateral. That works for me but the problem here is in a decentralized exchange, who holds the collateral? Right now what I see in Ripple is a decent business model but with some very large inherent flaws. Maybe the creators have thought of a way to address these issues, but until I hear about it or understand more, I'm wary. |
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The problem is if you go through a third party, you don't know how much debt they've created. You can set a limit on how much you trust someone but there's no way to know how big of a leveraged position they're playing in aggregate. In other words, there's a fundamental lack of transparency. There's no point in Ripple if this is the case as we're back to the fundamental problem with current governments that we're trying to escape.
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So far as I can tell, Ripple has not learned from these mistakes as it bases its model on unsecured debt leading to significant counterparty risk.
I think lending is mostly tangential to Ripple, which is mainly about payment. Sure there are trust lines, but they exist to facilitate payments and are not intended as long term loans. At least, that's what it looks like to me. You may very well be right, I'm just saying given my past experience, I'm skeptical. Ripple will have the opportunity to prove me wrong but right now I am not an investor other than the free xrp they dolled out. |
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By majority, do you mean 51%? The wording is ambiguous. Also how will you know if a majority has received product, is this information Avalon has said they're willing to provide?
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I was part of Prosper from the very beginning. I met Chris Larsen in Honolulu at the very first Prosper convention and still keep in touch with numerous ex-prosper lenders. It was a fantastic failure for lenders. So far as I can tell, Ripple has not learned from these mistakes as it bases its model on unsecured debt leading to significant counterparty risk. The fundamental problem with Prosper.
Part of evaluating a for-profit company is evaluating the strength of its management and this is what causes me great concern. Tread carefully.
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This game is calling my name  |
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+6 votes, nice job OP.
For the Raffle, my BTC address is in my sig. I don't have any of the other crypto-currencies.
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I'll be working with CurbsideProphet on Saturday. After that, there will be 2 sponsored slots left, picked chronologically. The sponsoring will end, but the service will not.
Just finished up our session and was very happy with the 1 hour tutorial. He covered a lot of areas. Anyone interested in OTC but unfamiliar with GPG, I highly suggest his course, also thanks to MPOE-PR for sponsoring the session. |
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Great, would you mind pumping it up again? Thanks.
If you believe what he says, I think that's the plan. He already said in an earlier post $100+ in a week, just not right now. |
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Just as a follow-up, I purchased 10 moruga seeds from TECSHARE. I gave 7 of them away to a friend that grows all sorts of peppers but kept 3 for myself. Happy to report that 1 out of the 3 has sprouted and appears to be growing strong. The only thing I did was cover the pot in saran wrap to keep the moisture and heat in until the seed germinated. Not sure if this is proper technique but I found the suggestion on a website and it seemed to work. Hope it helps someone.  |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This post is to confirm that I have commissioned Ls777 to create a custom 1920x1080 wallpaper for me. We have agreed on a timeframe of 3 weeks from today for the work to be finished (with up to an additional week (7 days) extension at Ls777's request). Due to the recent voltaility in Bitcoin and the longer time horizon, we have agreed to a final price of $100 USD, however, final payment will be in Bitcoin at the equivalent exchange rate when payment is due. Payment is due when Ls777 delivers to me (CurbsideProphet) a final draft and I feel the work is done and to my satisfaction. In the event of a dispute between myself and Ls777, the Bitcoin community will be allowed to conduct the arbitration. Arbitrators must have a minimum of 500 forum posts and have been a member for at least 12 months. Arbitration will be open for 1 week (7 days) from the time the dispute is made public with each qualified arbitrator having 1 vote in the matter. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRafyeAAoJEPCjssYZdvsgPBEP/i27oL82aqbQCkmKpWFjnDoD TkmFcIk8ODKtsZXFbhuBnEIS8SVXY7tIjDhW9X1Vgiit7NXxrMEFBBb3vLwJbnIr vR5/HEMpczUVj/u6Bw3VJjRxbRCedahNNQX9T+y/ce3uqanGj3G+criVveulP/yE SM0Uy4/bsA+/rc152sGg3MNDl4YiQv1rXu0vy/eDq+CQb5D42WXpw5z90gFIl1d8 BClfxw9tss1Hht/W6XC2zSmXvL9rlkXmR6jUhEpeU7k+pMfrehZUZPgJT164LTyY bR4vY/3G/5IMajO8dW8fXz4VYIbeaWe0LWuuyNv+ontm7O4pv31fK1c2gDy51HHd d0gV1WlqaCiavnYdABWI+GTknV83FJBam8cjGmiY+IQizhNdcxhiFnzMwo67ISXm 4+ZSRu9KO5evs4Mh5sUZXyLgKkvwrH2va/3MR2FyiaAT3oY824Dyg0YYuE3+k/+I 92d+ajouU3h78TJIudQXkpMkJDFLZP/guBQENwh9C52nTIChDSZ9f4IrZiwd2sQw OcvhgHHKTD4PrBl3NSJV4qhWsMpzAiOWo/sPTUXfwxsgpbC/k2O0CiYCUexPXnZl ldnVdCsoesXWb2Autzcd+yOFH3wpyfGpQFAK3225GwPsBCiyQul9t3UyU7CAz886 6IBmJLW1XcPFfNNVrngq =i88L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Ls777, please quote and post that you agree to the terms. Looking forward to working with you! Terms agreed.  |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This post is to confirm that I have commissioned Ls777 to create a custom 1920x1080 wallpaper for me. We have agreed on a timeframe of 3 weeks from today for the work to be finished (with up to an additional week (7 days) extension at Ls777's request). Due to the recent voltaility in Bitcoin and the longer time horizon, we have agreed to a final price of $100 USD, however, final payment will be in Bitcoin at the equivalent exchange rate when payment is due. Payment is due when Ls777 delivers to me (CurbsideProphet) a final draft and I feel the work is done and to my satisfaction. In the event of a dispute between myself and Ls777, the Bitcoin community will be allowed to conduct the arbitration. Arbitrators must have a minimum of 500 forum posts and have been a member for at least 12 months. Arbitration will be open for 1 week (7 days) from the time the dispute is made public with each qualified arbitrator having 1 vote in the matter. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.orgiQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRafyeAAoJEPCjssYZdvsgPBEP/i27oL82aqbQCkmKpWFjnDoD TkmFcIk8ODKtsZXFbhuBnEIS8SVXY7tIjDhW9X1Vgiit7NXxrMEFBBb3vLwJbnIr vR5/HEMpczUVj/u6Bw3VJjRxbRCedahNNQX9T+y/ce3uqanGj3G+criVveulP/yE SM0Uy4/bsA+/rc152sGg3MNDl4YiQv1rXu0vy/eDq+CQb5D42WXpw5z90gFIl1d8 BClfxw9tss1Hht/W6XC2zSmXvL9rlkXmR6jUhEpeU7k+pMfrehZUZPgJT164LTyY bR4vY/3G/5IMajO8dW8fXz4VYIbeaWe0LWuuyNv+ontm7O4pv31fK1c2gDy51HHd d0gV1WlqaCiavnYdABWI+GTknV83FJBam8cjGmiY+IQizhNdcxhiFnzMwo67ISXm 4+ZSRu9KO5evs4Mh5sUZXyLgKkvwrH2va/3MR2FyiaAT3oY824Dyg0YYuE3+k/+I 92d+ajouU3h78TJIudQXkpMkJDFLZP/guBQENwh9C52nTIChDSZ9f4IrZiwd2sQw OcvhgHHKTD4PrBl3NSJV4qhWsMpzAiOWo/sPTUXfwxsgpbC/k2O0CiYCUexPXnZl ldnVdCsoesXWb2Autzcd+yOFH3wpyfGpQFAK3225GwPsBCiyQul9t3UyU7CAz886 6IBmJLW1XcPFfNNVrngq =i88L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Ls777, please quote and post that you agree to the terms. Looking forward to working with you! |
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I don't find joy in other people's misfortunes.
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What is your point? That price kept dropping for several months after all this happened? Or something else? Yes, that's my point. The Gox fiasco was a catalyst that led to the continued decline. |
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Wasn't the crash in '11 caused by MTGOX being ddos'd also?
No, they were hacked and someone sold off a ton of stolen BTC's crashing the market. They were at the epicenter but it wasn't a DDoS. No. The 2011 peak took place around June 9th (the bubble burst, if you prefer that term). MtGox was hacked around June 20th.  And as your chart shows, there's a big gap with no trading due to the hack (which sent BTC into the ground) and was subsequently reversed when MtGox didn't honor the rogue trades. That, however, didn't stop the fall but you conveniently clipped the chart short. |
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