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don't blame the blockchain for your own ineptitude. email was clunky to work with at one time too and it seems to have become a smashing success despite early challenges including adoption. some people see problems and say it won't work, some see opportunities and get busy. which are you?
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But he did right? He said he was solo mining?
I'm not saying you should believe it, but that was his story right?
I must have missed it. Link? Garr can you address these calculations?
Sure thing. The calculations being used here can only estimate the output of a given mining rig + pool combination. It turns out that our pool has had a bad luck streak for a good while and we have since switched to mineb.tc which is proving to be a bit more reliable, with more consistent payouts. We should see output much closer to these calculations with the coming dividends. Cheers, Garrett |
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Note that nastyfans tracking ownership of minted seats only matters for voting. Donations to minted seats do not care about owner.
Of course to be purely factual about it that is true. There is also a "fun" aspect to all this that should not be dismissed; when people get the coins as gifts they want to go online and track the unpaid balance for "their" seats, participate i the pools, etc. At least that is my experience. They make great gifts and an excellent introduction to the world of crypto finance. . |
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i dont understand why would you buy bitcoin to buy drugs everyone knows bitcoin is the best drug in the world.
I'm on bitcoin right now! |
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The point is that homosexuals exist whether or not they are banned, so will bitcoin. You might not read about it and the activity may be hidden but it exists. Maybe the price will be lower, maybe higher but even if banned by .gov, really all it has to do is be able to solve problems for a segment of the population in order to win. It does that and it has been doing that for some time now. The price is starting to reflect the fact that it is a solid protocol foundation for other layers to be built upon to create the best value transfer system man has seen yet (open source, peer to peer distributed network, adaptable, and antifragile. The bitcoin network is not just computers, it is people. These people are also a decentralized network of thinkers, coders, economists, entrepreneurs, hackers, speculators, etc. who have given Bitcoin (and bitcoin) a serious look and decided to join in. Many have dedicated their entire lives to this project. Don't tell me that doesn't have power. I've been an early part of many trends in my life from music to mixed martial arts. I know a trend when I see it now. Bitcoin is gaining critical mass because it has the kind of hardcore supporters, and the technical veracity that are so necessary for mass adoption of anything really positive. Some of you rednecks can go ahead and shit on it all you want . It really won't hurt me at all as my choices will be the same to support this idea. The detractors here are rank newbs. You should have been around during the long, slow slide from $31.66 to $2.00 to see some real "something awful" type trolling. Government may be powerful but it can't really force everyone to comply with all of it's rules and making things illegal does not make them go away. So far, bitcoin's been kicking fiat (and gold's) ass. C'est la vie. edit- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3T9opvPHIYou are so so so wrong and naive :-(, and i dont mean that in a mean way, but if majority of bitcoin people are like you then got save me :-(... You are too passionate of something that is just money... and investment... your "ideals" are not good in this manner, its not good for you either. Dont get me wrong i would like or even love bitcoin to skyrocket, but there are serious arguments againts it... If gov. BANS bitcoin worldwide, serious ban, even some agreements signed internationaly with some economic secretary of state, bitcoin is DOOMED. If no normal merchants will take it, and if it is clear that no one "normal" will take it (not counting underground sellers of drugs guns etc.) because he would face some serious troubles with government (just high taxes on bitcoin bussiness would do the deal) the price would so low, nobody would care about it... Yeah... it would still exist but it would be a marginal thing... I im not interested in marginal things because no money... (and vast majority of people think like me in this matter). How would the price of bitcoin ever recover if there would be globall (just few important states would do) "ban" on bitcoin with international publicity, signed documents etc.. If everybody knows this is a serious and permant ban then bye bye bitcoin high price. Argue this... you cant probably... I would like to put more fiat into bitcoin but this one issue (serious international ban on bitcoin) is a big nightmare for me, and its easy to accomplish for governments. It's not just money and investments, it's much, much more than that. Do your homework and sometime you might realize that what I speak of is not idealism or naivety. Governments are not going to universally ban anything and they are not even considering this. The current evidence all points toward acceptance and not banning by most of the governments on earth. It is not currently illegal in any country in the world..even China. Everything you want is on the other side of fear. Stop peeing your pants and work toward what you want in life with a clear understanding of risk management. I am hoping for lower midterm bitcoin price because it serves my interests right now, but really price is secondary to the social and technical aspects of distributed p2p networks like bitcoin. The current centralized systems are highly fragile and are doomed if we do not allow more robust systems to be in a position to take over when they inevitably get FUBAR. "NASSIM NICHOLAS TALEB: The banking system, the way we have it, is a monstrous giant built on feet of clay. And if that topples, we're gone. Never in the history of the world have we faced so much complexity combined with so much incompetence and understanding of its properties." - http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec08/psolman_10-21.htmlAnd before anyone says "Ya but that was back in 2008, things are great now." Well, things are only holding together with a strand of thread because of billions of dollars worth of QE per month propping it up. |
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Just come on line to wish you all a merry Christmas!
ch000 ch000
Me too, Cheers! I love this place. |
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The point is that homosexuals exist whether or not they are banned, so will bitcoin. You might not read about it and the activity may be hidden but it exists. Maybe the price will be lower, maybe higher but even if banned by .gov, really all it has to do is be able to solve problems for a segment of the population in order to win. It does that and it has been doing that for some time now. The price is starting to reflect the fact that it is a solid protocol foundation for other layers to be built upon to create the best value transfer system man has seen yet (open source, peer to peer distributed network, adaptable, and antifragile. The bitcoin network is not just computers, it is people. These people are also a decentralized network of thinkers, coders, economists, entrepreneurs, hackers, speculators, etc. who have given Bitcoin (and bitcoin) a serious look and decided to join in. Many have dedicated their entire lives to this project. Don't tell me that doesn't have power. I've been an early part of many trends in my life from music to mixed martial arts. I know a trend when I see it now. Bitcoin is gaining critical mass because it has the kind of hardcore supporters, and the technical veracity that are so necessary for mass adoption of anything really positive. Some of you rednecks can go ahead and shit on it all you want . It really won't hurt me at all as my choices will be the same to support this idea. The detractors here are rank newbs. You should have been around during the long, slow slide from $31.66 to $2.00 to see some real "something awful" type trolling. Government may be powerful but it can't really force everyone to comply with all of it's rules and making things illegal does not make them go away. So far, bitcoin's been kicking fiat (and gold's) ass. C'est la vie. edit- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s3T9opvPHI |
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Hey, I don't know about you but I have a substantial investment in this club, and I don't want to see the seat prices drop. I don't want to see long term prospects hurt either, so we all want the same thing (I think). Yes, I do too. I want the seat prices to reflect the true value of this operation. That value is based on a lot of criteria and some may not see that true value by only looking at current donation yield, but that is their choice. I actually agree with that but I don't see a 30% debt to equity ratio (both measured in BTC) as being careless at all. It's reflective of the debt being fairly secure as a function of expected future BTC revenues, and also of debt being used to fund purchases of capital equipment, of of which is quite responsible use of debt. Most of the outstanding debt is for equipment that hasn't even been delivered yet.
I agree... I don't think it is careless, just not the absolute best policy when dealing with bitcoin debt. Surely it would be better to hold fiat debt if that option exists with very few caveats. I agree with that too. I believe when the next generation of miners starts arriving and the hash rate increases several fold, the debt should start getting repaid at a faster rate, using the current ratio. The current in-service equipment is aging and shouldn't be expected to yield that much. Trying to pay off future generation equipment with proceeeds from obsolescent hardware a bit of trying to get blood from a stone.
The debt will be paid faster at 75% regardless of the hardware generation. I have quite a few seats and yet the current donations are negligible even for me. I'd rather these small payments be used to get us out of debt and towards savings asap. Even a small amount of savings could be worth a heck of a lot of mining equipment in 3-6 months. I could be wrong but we are already hedged for low price and difficulty just by owning existing equipment and having debt. |
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Yes, and keep in mind that this is only until our debt is paid. Once the debt is gone, we can go back to 25% retained. The recent break in the price has been good for us both on the mining front and concerning our debt. We should be in good position for the next epic bubble if we have our debts paid and a some coin to save before it comes. It's likely to happen again sooner than anyone thinks.
+1 I couldn't have said it better myself. I still oppose. 75% is too much and will reduce donation payouts drastically and hurt seat values. The debt is not in and of itself harmful, and especially the idea of paying off "all" debt is misguided. The market cap of the group (see post 1) is over 1200 BTC which is more than 3x the total debt. This is not an unhealthy debt ratio for a business like mining. As we have seen in the past several weeks bitcoin is not always deflationary (in fact at present and for the forseeable future it is massively inflationary, with 3600 BTC being "printed" out of thin air every day), which was part of the argument against using debt. If we had paid off the debt at $1200/BTC, we would be much worse off today. It is unfortunate that the debt holders have been holding the bag longer than perhaps expected, but they were told up front what the debt was being used for and how it was to be paid off. They took a risk that mining using pre-ordered gear would pay off (in BTC) less and more slowly than expected, which is exactly what happened. Low seat value doesn't mean much unless you are trying to liquidate seats. A low seat price also makes nastyfans more accessible to new or less rich potential participants, not to mention a better entry point for newly minted seats. 3600 BTC per day inflation is a constant, yet year to year BTC has only grown massively in value. It is almost impossible to predict short and mid term movements but I think in that type of environment, debt has the potential to ruin us if we aren't careful. A very high BTC value coupled with a massive difficulty increase does have the potential to be an insurmountable challenge. Having btc savings (and the access to capital if neccessary) is a far better position to be in than in debt. Fiat debt would be the way to go forward unless we were absolutely sure the BTC price was going down over a protracted period. We want any creditors to be happy and potentially willing to loan again because of our excellent reputation. |
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1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY
Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.
Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Technically, it's new 0.01% against the old 1%. It is not guaranteed that the old 1% would succeed in retaining power. Yes, the decentralized currency deserves all the explanation it can get. The war is coming, but the resistance is NOT futile. That's right, only pussies defeat themselves psychologically before the battle begins. I'd prefer not to fight and just be free, but am prepared for defense of financial freedom from those who would try to aggressively take it away. They are taking it away what are you doing about it? That's right nothing, besides being Internet tough guy. No, they aren't. It's working perfectly and it's perfectly legal for me to use here. What are you doing if not sowing the seeds of doubt, fear and pussyness. afraid of the dark? http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/bitcoin-boon-overstock-become-biggest-retailer-accept-virtual-currency-2D11785539 |
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What are you talking about? The GREAT SATOSHI will come down from the mount with tablets of crypto hash... spreading joy to all and rules of the algorithm to maintain his blissful eternity. Satoshi cannot die and is immortalized in the blockchain to be reborn every Dec 25 as the light and the love of the world. The eternal son, satoshi.
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Yes, and keep in mind that this is only until our debt is paid. Once the debt is gone, we can go back to 25% retained. The recent break in the price has been good for us both on the mining front and concerning our debt. We should be in good position for the next epic bubble if we have our debts paid and a some coin to save before it comes. It's likely to happen again sooner than anyone thinks.
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intrinsic value is payment system. what is intrinsic value of gold?
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Nice disaster aversion OgNasty! Lol @ plasticAiredale. Hold strong spartans, I mean nastyfans. THIS IS BITCOIN!
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1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY
Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.
Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Technically, it's new 0.01% against the old 1%. It is not guaranteed that the old 1% would succeed in retaining power. Yes, the decentralized currency deserves all the explanation it can get. The war is coming, but the resistance is NOT futile. That's right, only pussies defeat themselves psychologically before the battle begins. I'd prefer not to fight and just be free, but am prepared for defense of financial freedom from those who would try to aggressively take it away. |
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Chip design is a complicated thing. One would assume people would realize this, but I see the process over-simplified repeatedly. There are far more variables involved than just "How many NM is it?"
FC found this out the hard way, the same as BFL and many others. They taped out chips that ended up sucking up too much juice and running way too hot. There are a variety of solutions, but I like the path FC is taking. His 40nm chips will likely outperform the 28nm chips from other companies by a fair margin. And they will cost a fraction of what the 28nm chips will to manufacture. The problem though will be massive heat generation. Solution? Immersive cooling.
I mean really, there is an obvious strategy here. Lets look at the advantages:
Chips at less than 1/10 the cost of the competition
Higher performance chips (as measured in Gh/s)
Plenty of available foundries
Higher density cards and racks
Lower electricity costs for cooling
Deliverable turnkey farms (in storage containers)
Lower facilities costs ( don't need a traditional datacenter)
This really is the future of ASIC mining by inventing it, just like the tag line says. Friedcat is addressing issues most of the competition hasn't even contemplated yet. He is going industrial.
When mining goes "industrial" the community is dead. The capabilities to deploy a liquid cooled behemoth fall to the very few, so hopefully the future has an answer to the block halving issue because the return on something that expansive will be questionable from the get-go, let alone remaining viable long-term. Removing the concept of the block reward halving, the specs on a box would have to be absurdly impressive considering the higher-end that folks like KNC are starting to shoot for. If a Neptune becomes the new norm for the hobbyist-turned-pro miner, we're at the verge of 2014 seeing an even more absurd growth curve than 2013 as far as hashrate distribution. Not to mention the ever-present X-factor that you could get a BFL-type company or even a KNC who says screw it, we're making our retirement, who cares how much hardware we push out and what impact it has on "the network". Standard industry practice among the more greedy VC types is to bleed an industry of all the cash it has before moving on to the next industry, leaving both companies and customers in the dust. BTC isn't immune to that, look how little cash it takes to tip markets and drive prices up and down the "to-the-moon" scale people like to use. I don't blame FC for thinking big, I blame the ASIC manu's across the board for thinking scaling up to industrial requirements is the future of mining. The only direction this is going is centralization. So what do you expect FC to do? Go home and pack in the business? Of course its going industrial. Its a big business. Imagine hundreds or thousands of AM container farms deployed around the world by nation-states, corporations, and cooperatives. Just because you can't put one in your basement or afford to own and run one yourself does not mean it is not decentralized. In 5 years there could be tens of thousands of them deployed, especially as competitors emerge and follow the model FC is pioneering. This is all possible with btc at $10,000 each. Exactly, industrialization does not equal centralization. |
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Why did BTC fall so much last 24 hours ?
Because this thread. Thanks OP, you broke bitcoin. Let's open a tread about some governments. Maybe we can broke them too  I like it! Just like bitcoin, governments die without support. |
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Why did BTC fall so much last 24 hours ?
Because this thread. Thanks OP, you broke bitcoin. |
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