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7341  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin meets Open Transactions on: July 02, 2011, 07:42:49 AM
Yes indeed. It was simple little exchanges like that that led me to build Open Transactions API calls in tcl into one of my tcl-based "eggdrop" IRC bots. I figured since I already have bots able to exchange between bitcoin-like currencies I might as well also put Open Transactions into the same type of bots.

Also I might not be the only person who has problems with the idea or practice of running self-compiled and/or financial daemons on third party servers, so figured I might not be the only person who might find IRC to have certain virtues.

(If we want to be by the people for the people having it easy to run stuff from home seems not too bad an idea in some respects.)

-MarkM-
7342  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blind Bitcoin Transfers on: July 02, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
I'd suggest consulting on the record with a lawyer who has significant professional standing to lose.

Almost any "front" can be used to launder money, even an actual laundromat.

I am not a lawyer, but if I used my laundromat to launder money I would not expect to get off by saying "but laundry is not real money" nor "but all I was doing was smuggling real money into the laundromat and out again, not actually putting it in the washing machine!"

-MarkM-
7343  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin meets Open Transactions on: July 02, 2011, 07:15:19 AM
Yes, they used Open Transactions code.

I don't know how much they had to change it though, for example OT claims it needs to use larger number of bits key size to be ready for doing real work, the bit size so far used is just kind of proof of concept not for real use with real funds.

So that'd be my possible number three, if I agreed that the current number of bits isn't enough.

(I am not sure if Martians would worry about that, would earthlings be so foolish as to risk war with Martians by attacking Botcoin? Wink Smiley)

-MarkM-
7344  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [50 BTC total bounty] for Groupcoin development and help on: July 02, 2011, 06:43:23 AM
If it is from miners that thieves are to obtain keys, keeping keys out of the hands of miners seems like a good idea.

It would not only be more code, but also more points of failure and a larger attack surface, while also being un-necessary.

If we hard-code addresses that minted coins must go to, anyone who does manage to obtain the private key of one of those addresses will be able to reward miners, or anyone else, based on any criteria they choose to use, including basing it on completed work shares in mining pools.

We can update the clients anyway in the normal way: making new versions available from official distribution sources which people are free to download and use if they choose to.

If a key does get stolen, next official version of the client can have the address associated with the stolen key removed.

Making things more complex just so that more attack surfaces will be exposed doesn't seem right, somehow.

To minimise damage from stolen keys we could change the keys on a schedule, such as each time the difficulty adjustment time comes the key(s) also change. They could change based on a hard-coded pre-generated list, and the client could even be set to die when it runs out of pre-generated keys in order to phase out old clients on a schedule too so people will have reason to come looking for updated versions from time to time.

-MarkM-
7345  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin meets Open Transactions on: July 02, 2011, 05:44:35 AM
For me the market parts are important enough that I keep putting Open Transactions on the back burner, though I also have a problem in general with getting things online that require compiling and/or require an open port. (I can compile at home but not open ports; I might be able to open ports at a third party hosting site but in the past have not had good experiences compiling on them (supposed Linux hosting turning out to be BSD purportedly "binary compatible" with Linux, for example) and in any case putting financial processing on a machine I do not physically have access to, that someone else *does* physically have access to just doesn't seem real smart. (Maybe even less smart if they or someone they know might even know what bitcoins are...)

In practice I thus figure I need two things before going online with something using Open Transactions: one, the market functionality, two ability to run the server from my own physical location.

-MarkM-
7346  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [50 BTC total bounty] for Groupcoin development and help on: July 01, 2011, 10:55:51 PM
Quote
I decided on the periodically updated whitelist because if a generation key is stolen, all the clients would have to be updated.  Then if you have updating capability, you may as well make it periodic.

If a generation key is stolen, the thief can make some groupcoins, whoopie sheet, big deal, at least they cannot update all the clients.

If on the other hand the update key is stolen...

If you cannot keep keys safe widening the scope of the damage inappropriate access could do doesn't sound very wise to me.

...

Oh was it github not gitorius, I hardly even remembered those are two different sites.

I dont think doing the create remote archive from what is on my local disk is quite what I would be doing even though what is on my local disk is the bundle from the remote site.

I seem to recall having figured some kind of clone type command might be what they use instead of checkout but never did get it puzzled out, being usually more interested in getting compile to work.

Fedora 15 seems to have both qt and qt4, but then also it seems as if the qt is qt4. There is no qmake, but there is a qmake-qt4.

Compiling ends at an error 1 without any apparent explanation of what error has been encountered, getting rid of the -Wall in case it is merely some limit on the number of warnings allowed before sheer number of warnings counts as an error doesn't help.

I am installing qt-creator now to attempt to use project instead of makefile...

...Ouch, a GUI so stupid that it wont even let me mouse-sweep its error messages to paste. so that I have to try to hand type them from memory: "_ was not declared in this scope" or some such thing - is truly ghastly-pathetic-gross. A development tool for people who want to make sure they won't be getting any detailed error reports or something?

Presumably (_( manages to be as unlikely a construct as it at first blush might appear to someone more used to C than whatever this stuff manages to rewrite itself into. Is _ a primitive of C# or C++ or gosh knows how preprocessed by q q-code or whatever this stuff is meant to end up as or is it maybe just a macro that isn't being defined as expected, I wonder... Hey might it even be a "translate-able string follows" signal like in WML? Maybe even the very thing WML inherits that "put an underline before strings if they are to be translate-able" quirk from?

Is the localisation stuff that does that maybe some other dependency not mentioned in the README ?

Die, GUI. Lets try qmake-qt4 followed by make, again, at least mousesweep-into-pastebuffer works in text mode:

Code:
In file included from src/headers.h:91:0,
                 from src/init.cpp:4:
src/serialize.h: At global scope:
src/serialize.h: In instantiation of ‘unsigned int SerReadWrite(Stream&, T&, int, int, CSerActionUnserialize) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = CFlatData]’:
src/main.h:216:1044:   instantiated from ‘void COutPoint::Unserialize(Stream&, int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream]’
src/serialize.h:398:5:   instantiated from ‘void Unserialize(Stream&, T&, long int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = COutPoint]’
src/serialize.h:739:5:   instantiated from ‘unsigned int SerReadWrite(Stream&, T&, int, int, CSerActionUnserialize) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = COutPoint]’
src/main.h:280:1230:   instantiated from ‘void CTxIn::Unserialize(Stream&, int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream]’
src/serialize.h:398:5:   instantiated from ‘void Unserialize(Stream&, T&, long int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = CTxIn]’
src/serialize.h:520:13:   [ skipping 8 instantiation contexts ]
src/serialize.h:739:5:   instantiated from ‘unsigned int SerReadWrite(Stream&, T&, int, int, CSerActionUnserialize) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = CMerkleTx]’
src/main.h:870:19342:   instantiated from ‘void CWalletTx::Unserialize(Stream&, int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream]’
src/serialize.h:398:5:   instantiated from ‘void Unserialize(Stream&, T&, long int, int) [with Stream = CDataStream, T = CWalletTx]’
src/serialize.h:1089:9:   instantiated from ‘CDataStream& CDataStream::operator>>(T&) [with T = CWalletTx, CDataStream = CDataStream]’
src/db.h:89:9:   instantiated from ‘bool CDB::Read(const K&, T&) [with K = std::pair<std::basic_string<char>, uint256>, T = CWalletTx]’
src/db.h:396:65:   instantiated from here
src/serialize.h:737:21: warning: unused parameter ‘ser_action’ [-Wunused-parameter]
make: *** [init.o] Error 1

I see a warning but not an error other than "Error 1", which make tends in past experience to seem to expect whatever died to have provided some explanation of prior to dying...

-MarkM-
7347  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: [50 BTC total bounty] for Groupcoin development and help on: July 01, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
I am interested in the criteria for the genesis block, because I have run several alternative blockchains for months using a ridiculously simple hack of the part of the code that creates the genesis block.

I think all I did was change the newspaper headline.

Either it seemed to me that all the math to make things add up right or hash right or whatever was in the code, or just possibly I might have moved something just a little bit to make sure the calculation did happen.

All the hints I have seen in various places about what one does to make a genesis block have caused me to be amazed that my simple hack seems to have actually worked.

A cost though is the fact that I left Satoshi his 50 coins - his ownership of the genesis block. I figured what the heck, so he gets 50 coins out of each batch of 21,000,000 that I make, am I going to begrudge him that?

Gosh I could have made an extra 50 coins by usurping Satoshi's 50 coins per blockchain. Was I a fool not to do so?

As to approved miners, since pools seem to be the wave of the future anyway why bother retrofitting approval into the daemon?

You could simply make it part of the protocol that only one or more specific hard-coded addresses can be given the generated coins, and have one pool per each such approved address. The daemons and clients need not care who the pools pay to mine, so long as the mined coins go to the designated addresses that could be all the daemons and clients need to know?

To unapprove a miner simply delete their login at the pools. They are still free to mine, they just won't be paid to.

Now about git... Sourceforge back in the day showed me exactly what command to use to suck back an svn snapshot and svn up was easy to remember ever since to stay up to date.

Can someone translate "svn co" and "svn up" into gittish, that gitorious place doesn't seem to be getting that info through to me somehow.

Sourceforge makes it clear to me how to grab a tarball made right then and there for me of the latest/current state. Sometimes the downloads button at gitorious offers more than just do you want tgz or zip but today that was all the choice I saw so I picked tgz.

Standard three-hack new currency...

1) You already changed the ports.

2) You didn't change the IRC channel so I have.  (s/bit/group/).

3) A glance at freecoin (now known as multicoin) seemed to hint one need not preserve the string length of the headline, but what the heck I always have so might as well do so again:

const char* pszTimestamp =   "For Satoshi. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24813.msg312224"

That would be it, except for this new feature about restricting where minted coins go, lets grep -i validate, aha looks like actually we want CheckBlock:

main.cpp line 1699/4062

Code:
    // First transaction must be coinbase, the rest must not be
    if (vtx.empty() || !vtx[0].IsCoinBase())
        return error("CheckBlock() : first tx is not coinbase");
    for (int i = 1; i < vtx.size(); i++)
        if (vtx[i].IsCoinBase())
            return error("CheckBlock() : more than one coinbase");

I am guessing there will turn out to be a vtc[0].something which is the address the minted coins went to. That would be what we'd want to check. Once we figure out where it gets set of course so we can set it to what our check is going to check for.

If we really wanted to deny unapproved miners every crumb of solace we could worry about the checking of the rest of the transactions if possibly transaction fees might not be bundled into the coinbase transaction but hey, you want minting forever anyway so how vindictive need we be toward people who choose to mine "for free"? (As in do you want to worry about them maybe getting a transaction fee now and then?)

-MarkM-
7348  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A disadvantage of NOT being recognized as currency by governments on: July 01, 2011, 04:05:47 PM
A real engative for miners: you all do tax fraud Wink

If bitcoins are not a currency, then they are a good. if they are a good, then all kinds of transactional taxes apply. in the US you may have to charge sales tax, in europe a "miner" is basically "creating" bitcoins which, if they are a good, require VAT to be collected on a sale. SIGNIFICANT disadvantage - suddenly you loose a significant part, theoretically, of your income, unless you sell them out of europe Wink

I, in my capacity as Digitalis Data Services, provide data services, such as the manipulation of data.

Were I to sell a program, Nova Scotia and/or Canada sales taxes, lately combined it seems as "GST" would be chargeable. However were I to fix some flaw in a program or correct some inadequacy of a database, a data field, a variable's value etc etc etc, that kind of service is, 'they' assured me, not subject to such tax.

-MarkM- (I'd still owe income tax if I earned enough in a year to be so rich I'd owe them instead of them paying me via GST rebates etc.)
7349  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There might be another virtual currency following BTC on: July 01, 2011, 03:46:09 PM
Don't forget World of Warcraft "gold". MUDflation inflationary enuff for ya?

-MarkM- (I already posted elsewhere that I suspect BitNickels might not prove as deflationary as Actual Original ("Hacker") Bitcoin.)



What are bitNickels ?

OMG already they have dropped out of mainstream consciousness, quick, sell, sell, sell, before the price plum gets eaten! OMG OMG OMG

-MarkM- (Try Freenode #bitcoin-bots /msg nickelbot help nkl)


I can't get there. Can you paste here the displayed text when I do that?

Oh that would just be a tiny little help blurb bowing to IRC flood limitations of only sending one line per two seconds.

Here we can do better: we can go to the source! :

Code:
#!/bin/bash
#
# nkl.sh
#
# BitNickel commands
#



#
# include constants.inc
#
. /var/games/crossfire/mybots/eggdrop/nickelbot/cmds/constants.inc


#
# Now on with the show
#


nick="$1"
cmd="$2"

if [ "$nick" == "" ]; then
  echo 'Nick was empty! NKL commands require a non-empty nick.'
  exit 1
fi
for n in btcbank britbank cdnbank czbank gmcbank grfbank martianbank nmcbank nickelbank unbank; do
  if [ "$n" == "$nick" ]; then
    echo "Sorry, $n is a restricted nick with no access to this function from IRC"
    exit 1
  fi
done

$BITNICKELD getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null

if [ "$cmd" == "" ]; then
  echo 'Your bitNicKeL address here is:'
  $BITNICKELD getaccountaddress $nick
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "help" ]; then
  echo 'NKL commands: nkl, nkl balance, nkl address, nkl send amount destination'
  exit 0

fi
if [ "$cmd" == "address" ]; then
  echo 'Your bitNicKeL address here is:'
  $BITNICKELD getaccountaddress $nick
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "balance" ]; then
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "send" ]; then
  if [ "$3" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl send toaddress amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  if [ "$4" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl send toaddress amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  if [ `echo "$3 < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    Send amount is less than 1! Please send at least 1!
    exit 1
  fi
  $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $3 $4    
  exit 0
fi
if [ "$cmd" == "exchange" ]; then
  if [ "$3" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl exchange tocurrency amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  if [ "$4" == "" ]; then
    echo 'Syntax: nkl exchange tocurrency amount'
    exit 1
  fi
  fxout=$4
  fxback=$fxout
  echo -n 'Your bitNicKeL balance here is '
  balance=`$BITNICKELD getbalance $nick`
  echo "$balance"
  if [ `echo "$balance < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    echo 'Your balance is less than 1! Please bring your balance up to at least 1!'
    exit 1
  fi
  echo "Transaction fee per kilobyte here is set to $TXFEE"
  if [ `echo "$fxout < 1" |$BC`  ]; then
    Amount to exchange is less than 1! Please exchange at least 1!
    exit 1
  fi
  nicksenoughinbank=`echo "$balance > ($fxout + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#  echo "balance=$balance, nicksenoughinbank=$nicksenoughinbank"
  if [ "$nicksenoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
    echo "Sorry, that is more than you have in your account."
    exit 1
  fi
#  echo 'EXCHANGING NOT FULLY IMPLEMENTED YET, BLOCKED UNTIL FIXED'
#  exit 1
  if [ "$3" ==  "mbc" ]||[ "$3" == "MBC" ]; then
    $BOTCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$BOTCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your Martian BotCoin address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting Martian BotCoin will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysMBC Martian BotCoins."
    bankbalance="`$BOTCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysMBC"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance > ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $MARTIANNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $BOTCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  if [ "$3" == "ukb" ]||[ "$3" == "UKB" ]; then
    $BRITCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$BRITCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your United Kingdom Britcoin address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting United Kingdom Britcoin will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysUKB United Kingdom BritCoins."
    bankbalance="`$BRITCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysUKB"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance > ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $BRITNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $BRITCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  if [ "$3" == "czb" ]||[ "$3" == "CZB" ]; then
    $CZBITCOIND getnewaddress throwaways >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
    nicksdestaddress=`$CZBITCOIND getaccountaddress $nick`
    if [ "$nicksdestaddress" == "" ]; then
      echo "Sorry, I failed to retrieve your destination-address, it came out empty."
      exit 1
    fi
    echo 'Your CZech Bitcash address here is'
    echo "$nicksdestaddress"
    echo 'That is where the resulting CZech Bitcash will be sent.'
    echo "One bitNicKeL currently buys $NKLbuysCZB CZech Bitcash."
    bankbalance="`$CZBITCOIND getbalance nickelbank`"
    fxback=`echo "scale=8 ; $fxout * $NKLbuysCZB"|$BC`
    enoughinbank=`echo "$bankbalance >= ($fxback + $TXFEE)" |$BC`
#    echo "bankbalance=$bankbalance, enoughinbank=$enoughinbank"
    if [ "$enoughinbank" == 0 ]; then
      echo "Sorry, right now I cannot exchange an amount that large"
      exit 1
    fi
    $BITNICKELD sendfrom $nick $CZNKLADDRESS $fxout
    $CZBITCOIND sendfrom nickelbank $nicksaddress $fxback
    exit 0
  fi
  echo 'Hmm I guess you maybe specified a destination currency I do not offer...'
fi

-MarkM-
7350  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Paypal did it - Bitcoin should do the same - 10BTC Bounty for implementation on: July 01, 2011, 03:34:55 PM
Yeah, um, I'm TRYING to get something like that set up, where people can automatically send money to someone else, and the system automatically buys Bitcoin on an exchange and sells it to a different currency in a different country or something in the background, but there are a TON of legal and regulatory issues with even getting a bank account that could participate in this. And I don't have the $25,000,000 of my own backing to open my own bank  Cry

This is why I let BiTCoin, and if it wants that can of worms too then NaMeCoin, deal with all that so-last-millenium fiat can of worms, freeing me to leverage the fact that BiTCoin, NaMeCoin, bitNicKeLs, BeeRTokens, CZech Bitcash, Canadian Digital Notes, United Kingdom Britcoins, General Mining Corp shares/scrip, General Retirement Corp shares/scrip, United Nations shares/Scrip and even Martian BotCoins all use the same standard interface so that basically anything that can plug in one of them can plug in any of them...

-MarkM- (Hmm do we also need Red Poker Chips, Blue Poker Chips, Green Poker Chips etc etc etc...?)
7351  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A disadvantage of NOT being recognized as currency by governments on: July 01, 2011, 03:17:33 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12357005

Just because our cryptochips aren't used exclusively for poker doesn't mean a theft of $500,000 worth of data is not theft.

-MarkM-
7352  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Paypal did it - Bitcoin should do the same - 10BTC Bounty for implementation on: July 01, 2011, 02:16:12 PM
Did PayPal ever stop their affiliate scheme? As far as I know I still will get $5 if ever anyone I introduced to them via my affiliate link makes a $100 purchase?

Considering how huge a lot of software installs are nowadays, why the heck isn't the blockchain up to the most recent at time of packaging of the release checkpoint not included in the package? Or at least the fast start headers version?

How about "hey, I sent you some bitcoin, go download bitcoin.com/release/windows/YoUrFr33mnyIjstS3ntu ...

-MarkM-
7353  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: EFF donations and the Bitcoin Faucet on: July 01, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
Don't make them re-write their blog entry! Keep it simple, let what they said they were doing be what they did, don't drag it out so endless comments and trollings and questions leave bitcoin mentioned over and over, pointing out they keep changing their mind, does that mean they are not consistent, and so on and so on and on and on.

Honestly when Gaven linked to their blog post it seemed to me that was the end of it, look folks, they made their decision, they wrote it into the record, it is a done deal.

So, lets look at this hacker-the-faucet problem.

How specific to the faucet are the security problems the faucet, like possibly many another website that uses bitcoins, might face?

I notice their blog post didn't really go into a whole lot of detail about precisely how the faucet operates, upon what criteria it dispenses coins, or even whether paying its own bills constitutes redistributing via the faucet.

Would it break faith with their intentions ("so that they can continue to circulate in the community") were the faucet to use some of those coins to get some serious work on bitcoin-on-the-web security done on its behalf?

-MarkM-
7354  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: POLL: What are the most likely things that may cause bitcoin to fail ? on: July 01, 2011, 12:12:01 PM
Of the options provided, becoming a store of value seems the most likely, however i would not consider that a fail, because as a store of value it would also, in my imagination, be a currency just kind of a different 'tier' of currency.

Of course I would not want to clutter up the Bitcoin blockchain with tiny transactions well within what I can afford to pay from my bitNicKeL pocket/purse, heck I would not even bother the Martians with such trivia by using Martian BotCoins instead of pocket change.

But come the day I have enough MBC to stash away that they could buy a whole Bitcoin, heck yeah I'd like to pick up another BiTCoin to enhance the family fortune, maybe even use that as collateral to pick up a nice income property...

-MarkM-
7355  Economy / Economics / Re: Botnet - can we stop this madness? on: July 01, 2011, 12:03:17 PM
That is crazy. You have a nice anonymising currency that can stash your bot-gotten gains on the blockchain to collect at your liesure and instead you direct your bots to contact your friendly neighborhood miner-man?

Sheesh. Who did they hire to craft this brilliant trojan for them?

-MarkM-
7356  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: July 01, 2011, 11:55:07 AM
Well how serious are you about preventing them from starving?

Laissez-faire, heck if they want to starve let them?

Is it my fault, heck its not as if I took a job they could have done instead of me, why don't they just get a job, if they had any skills I'd hire them but sheesh I am having a hard enough time just feeding my own SUV?

I'm a doctor, not an economist. If they cannot eat what the nurse carries over from the replicator tell Scotty to replicate something we can give them intravenously?

-MarkM-
7357  Bitcoin / Wallet software / Re: Bitcoin-Qt, the future Bitcoin client GUI [user input needed] on: July 01, 2011, 11:45:34 AM
Or edit could be beside the highlighted row and new address be beside the ghost row, which in the image provided seems to be the bottom rather than the top. (It should be wherever the newest would be, so top or bottom depending on whether displaying oldest or newest at top).

Copy to clipboard tends in any case to familiarly be related to something that is highlighted, at least in Windows and Linux, I don't know how Mac does it. So maybe that need not move, often I have seen Windows users go to some menu in upper left of their screen to find a copy/cut/paste menu so surely they are used to it not having to be right next to the highlighted thing it is to apply to.

-MarkM-
7358  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: July 01, 2011, 11:23:28 AM
What evidence indicates that they do?

Even if not in a free market system maybe they do not?

Are systems any solution at all or part of the problem? Systems have not had a great track record have they?

Are they to be forced to remain in a free market system, or are they simply going to stubbornly insist on remaining in one even if they starve?

Free market proponents hereabouts seem to tend to think the market is not in fact free if people are forced to participate.

However merely giving starving people as many acres of as-arable land (or, generically, "resources") per capita as non-starving people supposedly also has a poor track record as a means of preventing them from starving.

Maybe the only way to prevent them starving would be to invoke some medical doctrine or something that claims to take priority over the freedom of the market, permitting them to be fed intravenously due to suffering from a medical condition (starving person syndrome? hunger? chronic failure to receive enough intravenous nourishment? I guess then it'd come down to doctors versus free marketeers, with maybe the marketeers jeering at the doctors saying if they perform this medical service they are basically slaves, that if they were truly free their hippocratic oath would mean less to them than the jeers of the marketeers, or something?)

-MarkM-
7359  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: July 01, 2011, 10:33:40 AM
How did you get from "The free market won't provide that. The people within the free market have to do it. If they chose suicide and self destruction, there's nothing free market can do. Free market can't impede suicide." to "you have a blind faith, or a blind wish, that the free market will, somehow, avoid that." ?

OK, let me rephrase then.

1. How does the free market avoid the destruction of the inhabitable planet from which we depend on to survive?
2. How does the free market ensure that no people will starve unnecessarily?

Quite eager to hear.

As far as I can tell from the wording, it seems to me that free market does not [...], people do (or, possibly, do not).

("Free markets don't kill people, people do"?)

What consititutes necessity in a free market? Possibly such markets might include propaganda profitably explaining how necessary it is that people starve. Who was it who had that .sig about wolves maximising the value of sheep by re-arranging them into marketable food, in effect? Is a market which attempts to prevent evolutionary assets such as aggressiveness, teeth, claws, willingness to prey and kill, from being permissable / marketable / useable products or services truly free?

The material in this part of the thread doesn't really seem to address 2 directly but certainly does not seem to indicate free markets solve the problem.

Could it be that you might have grasped the text clearer had it said the people instead of the people in the free market? As maybe mentioning where the people happened to be (in a free market) distracted you from the idea it is the people who must do it if it is to be done, toward some idea that only if the people were in a free market they could or would do so? (I would take it more as implying that if there not people in the market there probably would not be much that could or would happen to prevent the undesired results...)

-MarkM-
7360  Economy / Economics / Re: A Resource Based Economy on: July 01, 2011, 10:15:33 AM
Quote
The free market won't provide that. The people within the free market have to do it.
If they chose suicide and self destruction, there's nothing free market can do. Free market can't impede suicide.

OK, so finally I get it.

You have no plan to avoid self-destruction, you have a blind faith, or a blind wish, that the free market will, somehow, avoid that.

Any explanation on how that may happen?

How did you get from "The free market won't provide that. The people within the free market have to do it. If they chose suicide and self destruction, there's nothing free market can do. Free market can't impede suicide." to "you have a blind faith, or a blind wish, that the free market will, somehow, avoid that." ?

Is there some grammatical or syntactical quirk of the language you think in that takes that English in some completely different way than (I am relatively sure) most English would probably take it?

There seems to be a massive gap or divide here between what you got and what you got it from... upon re-reading it, does it still say what you thought it said, or does it maybe seem amenable to some other interpretation now?

-MarkM-
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