Developing a dedicated BTC sim card had not occurred to me... it would solve all the issues I mentioned.

You would still need to have an office but all they would do would be issuing the cards and taking a small fee for converting the sms into a btc tx.

The card would have inbuilt storage of BTC addresses and aid in sending the "Send BTC" sms and displaying my balance/addresses.

Addresses and keys would be in the phone itself which makes it a lot safer.

You would still have the same cost of a smartcard though as I'm sure they practically are/cost the same.

Still - it avoids some of the smartcard issues (occasional need for an internet bar and "expensive" android POS receiver terminals).

I think both systems could enhance bitcoin together as a SIM user could still pay a smartcard merchant and a smartcard user could with little trouble pay a SIM user.


Perhaps you or someone else should create a new thread dedicated to developing such an "Encapsulated thin BTC client SIM card" as we have arrived at here.

Yes text works, but how will you do that with some old old phone?

1. You can't install new programs; they hardly have an "app store".
2. Texting to a site/office that will hold your wallet and send txs for you would work, but introduces hassle for the payer (typing time) and a host of fees and security concerns.

My assumption is that normal folks would get a smartcard, at least in their family/village while merchants would use a handed down android running my imagined POS app and being connected to a card reader cable.

No banks would be involved and anyone could issue cards as it would be open source - for instance "red cross".
The cycle would be all BTC.

Actually the policies of "old American technocracy" were thinly wailed socialism with a technocratic taint.

Their ideas include things such as sharing the production apparatus freely - which in essence is communism.

Their command structure is based on being a technocrat and an engineer which to me sounds a lot like "member of the party".
(I have known not so smart engineers and I'm sure some "Engineers" from China are not quite up to par for instance)


Our command structure combine merit OTHER than title and the scientific method. To become a leader you would either have to come from a "school" which methods have been scientifically proven in a "court" to produce better leaders or yourself have been successful leader already (possibly both may be required for higher positions).

We are also working on a software program that will objectively execute the "constitution".
You may ignore the program of course, but the idea is then that you will be denied access to the state funds controlled by said program - Bitcoins among other ideas make this possible.

We have done blogs on all of this already, we will do more later.

From a short wiki read of him I can believe that. As science is rather collaborative in nature positivist technocratic ideals end up with a progressive taint - and he sounds very conservative.
Obama/Kim Jung? Um/etc. are doing a pretty decent job at that I would say... but that's not really my retort here:

Truth is truth even without public support, technocracy is not necessarily democratic and mostly not.

More importantly I consider the movement quite new so it's too early to judge its survival chances.


Both socialism and free capitalism/weak democracy seem to have failed though so the world seems to be in dire need of new ideas.

Edit:
I'm currently working on a software program to control the execution of law to eliminate human interpretation, so the my site has not been updated for a while, but the interested can check it if they want: floathaven.com.
Its half political and half trying to build floating islands in order to create better countries... don't know if that last part will ever work though...

Send it as an email with an attached wallet.dat file.

Introduced 3 people to BTC like that AND saved the hassle of buying gifts!

1. Meaning of life is the most important.
2. Given the amount of debate on that subject, likely the best answer has not been found yet. Even considering religion - interpretations are still debated.
3. Finding the meaning should thus be priority number one.
4. The scientific method is the most widely accepted and successful method for problem solving and knowledge seeking.
5. Ergo - Laws should be justified in that they serve science and/OR the search for meaning. Anonymous might put this as "For the lulz".

/Positivist-technocrat-rant

(Yes its a movement... we're like 1.5 guys!)

1. Argentina can buy BTC for their entire currency in circulation without running out of BTC.
2. This is because such an action would raise the price of BTC, lets just say to 4.000US$/BTC.
3. Argentina may now "only" hold 3 million BTC, however those 3 million BTC will have increased in value to reflect entirely
the old currency.
4. Argentina would likely earn money doing this as the BTC rate would rise AFTER they bought it or at least lagging behind them doing so.
5. Ordinary Argentinians would indeed be able to use BTC just fine, but would trade in mili-BTC (1/1000 => 4US$/BTC) or maybe micro.
6. This is not a problem as BTC is indeed divisible down to 10^-8 or 0.000 0001 BTC.


As for the loans I would default, but try to make sure the initial loan was paid back - even with lost interest that should maintain decent trust in the Argentine people/government.
(I think the same for Greece, Italy, Spain and so on)

Paying back the loans only allocates real resources to bankers who CLEARLY gave loans for the wrong reasons to the wrong people (shady politicians).
That is not an allocation you want to make in these dire times.


Saving the economy? Well you need energy so building some wind turbines might be a good idea. That creates jobs and later the power drives factories and farming equipment.

Additionally you save your selves from huge costs on fossil fuels later - I pity the countries dead set on coal/oil/gas.


My country will have trouble too but 25% of our electricity will continue forever at little cost so that is a nice cushion to have.

Going from 10 to 700 transactions for the computing power seems really good.
Something like this COULD be bitcoins undoing, it could also be irrelevant if BTC are already cheap enough - it would be like arguing your email client had better graphics or ran faster: irrelevant.

Still nice work though.


How can there be no transactions during chain competition?

Isn't the whole point that the chain competition is constant?


Proof of work for txs and such might be a good idea.

The fee system of BTC should work nicely enough though.


Will keep half an eye on this.

I don't understand this line of argument:

1. Phone payments are the future.
2. Hence, we should focus on doing that.

It WOULD make sense EXCEPT both android and IPhone clients have already been made so there's almost no work needed in that area.


Additionally BTC is already heavily entrenched in the first world so focus should be on the third/second.

While it is true they use mobiles a lot more than us their mobiles are often older and will not support a BTC client.


A smart card costs 2$ and the POS using my design would be 15$ and an Android phone.


Given rising metal, fuel, food prices and economic crises I do not see 1 billion Indians all getting a phone in the foreseeable future let alone a even near fancy one.

Anyway I'm busy with another important project right now, but I'll come back to this; buy some BTC develop the system, release and see the BTC range rise further still.
It seems until then there will be only talking here.

The idea behind the square devices are exactly what I envision; a small card adapter plugged into your phone and installing an app.

I think however that a simple cable/smart card reader would be cheaper than a licensed square device.

Further if they are based entirely on magstripes I don't its safe enough for BTC use.

What are your sources?

My government just sank the equivalent of 120 million US dollars into another smartcard system (public transport).
Its waaay to expensive and unnecessary, but the system itself actually seems to work well enough.

Everyone here uses smartcard credit cards too.

I am currently in the neighboring country and they also use smart cards - THEIR similar system has been in place for a while and works perfectly.


I remember using mag cards once but those days are gone now and I honestly find the difference is nil and both are faster to use than cash.

Did this myself manually, its a bit of a hassle copying .dat files, but not overly so.

(Compare to going shopping for some present)

This also meant I had complete control of the encryption process and made sure everything was safe.


Coinapult is still great, we need more like that, perhaps a program you could run offline on your computer?

POS system using Bitcoin?

All they have to know is "a no-fee merchant solution".

After pushing ignore on 3/4 of the users here I look forward to a happy time on this forum with other rational human beings.

What an useful thread this became.

I thought the fee was per trade, not per person. Nvm then.

Yeah lets always forget and ignore the past as soon as it is so.

Totally not idiotic.

I would also love to have child rapists living in my neighborhood and hold no suspicions against them because I'm sure their past actions have ZERO bearing on their future actions!

/Sarcasm


Trayvon - Minor criminal record with pot... I have known college kids who liked pot UHHHH
Zimmerman - Multiple spots on criminal record of violence no less.

This IS a race job, but not against Zimmerman.


As for "guns can only kill" that's bullshit:
1. Shoot at a downward angle and you wont hit bystanders.
2. Miss the legs and he will still be scared and freeze or run.
3. Miss the legs shoot until you hit.

I have no surprise that american cops are trained to kill civilians, whats your argument? That that's okay?

Don't tell me the gun wouldn't have scared him enough for self defense.


Guns don't make us equal, what a load of propaganda, it just makes the IDIOTS with rage fits more powerful.
Normal decent people usually don't carry guns around as they are not insane and DON'T want to kill people.

Anyway fuck you all you make me sick. I'm out.

I have gone through my previous history and they charge the fee twice, but only show it once.

I thought the fee was 0.6% when you bought (so you only pay it half the time), but its actually 1.2% and you end up paying 0.6% both times.
(Since the other guy does too the actual fee is 1.2%/trade)

Everybody know this, am I a fool?


If so why do they hide it instead of showing the actual fee or show 0.6% on your side on sales as well.


I sold at 4.935 and bought at 4.876 - that's about 1.2%.

However 0.6% was subtracted from this on the amount that went into my account.

After that ANOTHER 0.6% fee was slapped on top (the shown one) - resulting in a total albeit very small loss.

Didn't bother me either BUT:

The word you WANT to use is "FIRESTORM" - it sounds awesome and you can make the exact same analogy.

Also "your it" should be "your wallet" or "it".

Great read.

So lets say Trayvon was very aggressive, the neighborhood thief, fast, muscular and trying to get his gun - SO WHAT?

Why didn't Zimmerman say "freeze"?
Why didn't he shoot Trayvon in the legs, arms, shoulder or even lower body?

Zimmerman is a killer and he has the violent history and social dysfunctionality to back that theory up plenty.

If you still support him you are a crazy and evil racist m*therf*cker.

Look at the curves up close they look too neat, auto generated.

I will wait, its going down already.

The manipulator wanted us to buy at 5 and now he is pushing it down again or he failed.

I will wait at 4.87 or so - then sell when he pushes it to 5.1 or something.

Real BTC val is around 4.8, been pretty stable there.


Why should there be a sudden rush to 8?

Is some country using BTC now? No, the fundamentals are the same.

My country is largely supplied by renewables, even with a full on peak oil scenario (that I see as root cause of our current mess) we would limber on.

Add to that that we are in good standing with our neighbors and the international community and have little debt.


Given that and my limited funds as a student I am looking to invest 90% in a wind turbine project as co-owner during 2012.
Such projects routinely generate 10% interest even after the state has had its grubby hands on the profit.

That means my money is bound right now in a bank account.


In the future if BTC proves stable enough I will probably move a lot more into that.

I already plan to use them for future business transactions.


Will be more interesting after I actually earn some more money after college.