1. Deposit 1USD to a dummy account
2. Create 10000 bid orders of 0.01BTC at $0.01 slowly (without creating lag)
3. Sell off
4. Rapidly adding new orders to the dummy account
5. The MtG card trading engine is forced to re-evaluate the validity of the 10000 bid orders
6. 30 minutes lag
7. Profit
Does it work?
As it would be a one-click decision to disable this opportunity, yet Gox does not do it, despite frequent pleas from everyone I know, it can not be attributed to incompetence. They are doing it on purpose, and it is left to the reader, what this purpose is. (Please continue to sell off your coins at every instance of lag, you will be sure the lag remains until all your coins are gone.) If I ever set up an exchange, such charade would never find its way to the order book. Oh yes, and the decision to abolish trading fees, what bullshit. I would have added a $1 upfront per order. |
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Check out tradehill 2.0 then...  I have heard the guys running it have tarnished reputation. I am afraid I am not comfortable if the directors: - Are not experienced <- ALL current bitcoin exchanges - Do not have integrity <- MOST current fiat establishments I am ready to  if you are one of the founders, feel free to clean your reputation  |
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Where did these numbers come from?
My educated guesses. By educated I mean it I am sorry for my utter lack of formatting capability. If anyone wants to put them in a "table" I am glad to edit the OP. |
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Ok.. despite the controversy on my origin, I will continue with the ways, how to make more money with bitcoin:
3. First-level arbitrage (over space). This is a staple of all dealers. They are essentially making first-level arbitrage every time they close a deal. I am a dealer since at least 1986, and a full-time precious metals dealer since January 2006. Somebody wants bitcoins. OK, you pay 2% over spot. Somebody wants fiat. OK, you get spot-2%. The actual percentage varies.
This can also be used without needing to find clients. You can have money and coin in different exchanges, and simultaneously execute buy and sell orders in them, locking in risk-free gains. Today there was an opportunity to buy at 0.090 in Bitstamp and sell 0.110 in Gox. That was valid for about 200,000mB, which (would have) turned out $4,000 gain.
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So who are the rich?
1% of world's population owns currently 0 or more bitcoins 0.01% of world's population owns currently 1 or more bitcoins 0.0001% of world's population owns currently 131 or more bitcoins. | BTC minimum | # of holders | Sum (mBTC) | | 1073,741.824 | | 0 | | 536,870.912 | | 0 | | 268,435.456 | 1 | 375 809 638 | | 134,217.728 | 2 | 375 809 638 | | 67,108.864 | 5 | 469 762 048 | | 33,554.432 | 12 | 563 714 458 | | 16,777.216 | 25 | 587 202 560 | | 8,388.608 | 50 | 587 202 560 | | 4,194.304 | 100 | 587 202 560 | | 2,097.152 | 210 | 616 562 688 | | 1,048.576 | 430 | 631 242 752 | | 524.288 | 870 | 638 582 784 | | 262.144 | 1 790 | 656 932 864 | | 131.072 | 3 580 | 656 932 864 | | 65.536 | 7 160 | 656 932 864 | | 32.768 | 14 320 | 656 932 864 | | 16.384 | 28 640 | 656 932 864 | | 8.192 | 57 280 | 656 932 864 | | 4.096 | 100 240 | 574 816 256 | | 2.048 | 150 360 | 431 112 192 | | 1.024 | 225 540 | 323 334 144 | | 0.512 | 225 540 | 161 667 072 | | 0.256 | 225 540 | 80 833 536 | | 0.128 | 225 540 | 40 416 768 | | 0.064 | 225 540 | 20 208 384 | | 0.032 | 225 540 | 10 104 192 | | 0.016 | 225 540 | 5 052 096 | | 0.008 | 225 540 | 2 526 048 | | 0.004 | 225 540 | 1 263 024 | | 0.002 | 225 540 | 631 512 | | 0.001 | 225 540 | 315 756 | | 0.00000001 | 1 000 000 | 137 900 | | 0 | 7 286 559 014 | 0 |
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What risk was there with mining Bitcoins when difficulty was 1?
I knew of the opportunity. It would have required a lot of time and effort, and I had mine in better use. I figured out, I could buy them for cheap if they ever gain traction. So here I am. Only now was bitcoin big enough to be worth of my time. The really rich guys are coming soon Point is, I am not complaining that someone wasted their time mining. If they profit off of it, good. If not, hope they had fun. I still think I am better off NOT mining even though I had the chance. |
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Some of my thoughts on the subject:
- It needs to be possible to pay T+3. The crash would have never gone so deep if this was the norm.
- No need to trade sub-BTC1 amounts or fractional amounts
- Price can be USD XXX,y0 precision.
- Designed for professionals, no need to have millions of individuals trading, they can use the current exchanges or buy OTC
- Functional futures and options markets
- Closed on Sundays
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I am aware that this topic has been discussed over and over, and that new exchanges have popped up, and many are developing new exchanges. The events this week proved to me, that Mt.Gox is not, and never will be, up to the task. But in my observation, for a new exchange to gain a dominant position, it would have to be wall street compatible in professionalism. From this point forward, no nerd-based effort has any chance of making it. The exchange needs to be capable of handling billions of dollars worth of "real money". The challenges are not mainly in the technical field. |
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I too believe that Mt.Gox failed at their "duty", but they really have nothing to do with the crash. At all. Get over it.
The Bitcoin bubble was driven by speculators. And hype. Media attention. Millions of people wanted to get involved and started pouring their money in. The price goes up and more people want to get in -- but the Bitcoin infrastructure isn't there yet. It doesn't actually support $3 billion in economic activity. The system simply corrected itself to a more-reasonable value, and Mt.Gox only made that correct a little more turbulent. But they didn't cause it.
Bitcoin isn't ready for mainstream. Personally, I'm looking forward to a little more stability in the system as people tune out for a bit and tune back in when it's actually ready. I agree that Gox "failed", but they failed their own business, not Bitcoin.
Bitcoin's growth rate has been very high. During the time it has been traded against fiat in an organized way (since Mt.Gox), its exchange rate has appreciated at a 30.5% average monthly rate. ANYTHING growing this quickly has a risk of overextending itself. If we continue to grow at this speed another 5 short years, the exchange rate would be more than 2 billion USD / BTC. Even Alexander the Great did not conquer the world in 5 years, though... The infrastructure for anything bitcoin, was terribly behind the exchange rate. Not as bad as 2011, but still. The 100%+ monthly growth rate from the beginning of 2013 is too high. Something has to break. We can still see $10,000 per coin before Christmas, but there is a lot of work to do before it will be sustainable. |
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The thread title promises more than delivers  I read it all but there was not very deep thoughts on the matter. Now just trying to throw some: - The early adoptership. Which is worse: an early adopter who cashes out, and now has $tuff to play with in his life, or an early adopter who never sells and just hoards his coin? In my opinion, the latter does not steal from the others, on the contrary - his hoarding makes the coin of the others even more valuable. The former, otoh, does benefit financially, but that comes with a risk, and with a cashout mentality there will not be inordinate wealth concentration anyway. - Plutocracy. I am a plutocrat. I have never mined any coins, just bought with the proceeds of my fiat businesses. Now I am making a transition to serve the bitcoin community with the coin, whose value I know, since I have spent so much of my hard-earned wealth into it. The shakeout this week did not shake any coins from me, actually I gained about BTC1000 during it. And I was playing nice, I did not order anything DDoSed to profit from it, for example. I try to build services to the free market, which people will use for mutual benefit. I intend to grow ever richer in terms of bitcoins. Who exactly am I stealing from? |
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Having been a long time reader of this read/forum, probably too long/too much time spent and lurking on here for a while. Just wanted to say that many of you provide some brilliantly comedic moments as well as some insightful comments. For what it is worth I am Long/Bullish. But aware of the potential for shit to hit the fan, having seen it grow from nearly the start. Also, I just wanted to bring this back into peoples heads since we are looking at charts, or supposed to be, but this is looking awefully similar to the 30d charts of BTC In this market cycle, Where are we now with bitcoins , ....according to you Also, where is the chart with cell phone adoption? This. Buying bitcoins now is like buying Facebook stock at book value when the system had half-a-million users back in 2007. |
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Hi
What price for all 3 100g bars ?
Kind regards
PM sent. No trading during weekend, please. I need rest And time for trolling.  Shut up. I can do what I want and I have my wife's permission to say so. |
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Quite many saw the crash coming, and/or sold the second day at $150-$200. Not me. I was too busy making money and today also buying a lot. |
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Anyone realized that the song was released at an opportune time?! Well done, proudhon |
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Meanwhile in another thread. Funny that I vary my style according to the thread... I think the "worst" is behind us. The weekend will see a healthy upwards consolidation (EDIT: as of this writing, the price was $70 and already we are much higher), and next week we will reach the trading range of $100-$120. There is no psychological support for sub-100 prices. Read: bulls will just buy as long as they see any coins offered for double-digits, and considering that the number of coins is limited, but the number of bulls is not, the outcome is obvious. I also resumed buying at $62 and will happily buy more at anything below $80 this weekend. After 1-2 weeks I am confident to pay $100 per coin. These levels allow me to buy as much as BTC500 per day, something that I never imagined would return! Actually there was no "worst". The tree was shaken, and most of the rotten apples are now gone. Almost a million coins changed hands already, achieving the long-term healthy objectives of: - Balancing the inordinate amount of bitcoin wealth that the early adopters have, compared to their feeble actual position in the real economy, and lacking resources to employ their coins to the good of mankind. (These mainly sold in the run up.) - Destroying the leveraged speculators and warned the potential future ones. Leverage is meant for controlling large trading positions with small cash outlay, in order to offset risks. Creating risks for yourself, as if bitcoin value appreciation (+600% year-to-date) wasn't enough, is beyond me. I hope the rest of you will sell sub-100, so that we will see a period of price stability. Don't let the door hit you, etc. - Establishing (hopefully! - this one has not come yet) a stable price for new entrants, big and small - Enriching people like me, who will provide services in the bitcoin community in the future, and need huge stashes of coin to do so effectively. My coin count was essentially flat (or in slow decline) during the early days of April, but now I think the position is at least BTC1,000 bigger than 48 hours ago. Did not have time to count the coins yet, they are just spread in unique receiver address offline generated paper wallets all over the place, and my broker is having the weekend break he truly deserves |
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I think the "worst" is behind us. The weekend will see a healthy upwards consolidation (EDIT: as of this writing, the price was $70 and already we are much higher), and next week we will reach the trading range of $100-$120. There is no psychological support for sub-100 prices. Read: bulls will just buy as long as they see any coins offered for double-digits, and considering that the number of coins is limited, but the number of bulls is not, the outcome is obvious. I also resumed buying at $62 and will happily buy more at anything below $80 this weekend. After 1-2 weeks I am confident to pay $100 per coin. These levels allow me to buy as much as BTC500 per day, something that I never imagined would return! Actually there was no "worst". The tree was shaken, and most of the rotten apples are now gone. Almost a million coins changed hands already, achieving the long-term healthy objectives of: - Balancing the inordinate amount of bitcoin wealth that the early adopters have, compared to their feeble actual position in the real economy, and lacking resources to employ their coins to the good of mankind. (These mainly sold in the run up.) - Destroying the leveraged speculators and warned the potential future ones. Leverage is meant for controlling large trading positions with small cash outlay, in order to offset risks. Creating risks for yourself, as if bitcoin value appreciation (+600% year-to-date) wasn't enough, is beyond me. I hope the rest of you will sell sub-100, so that we will see a period of price stability. Don't let the door hit you, etc. - Establishing (hopefully! - this one has not come yet) a stable price for new entrants, big and small - Enriching people like me, who will provide services in the bitcoin community in the future, and need huge stashes of coin to do so effectively. My coin count was essentially flat (or in slow decline) during the early days of April, but now I think the position is at least BTC1,000 bigger than 48 hours ago. Did not have time to count the coins yet, they are just spread in unique receiver address offline generated paper wallets all over the place, and my broker is having the weekend break he truly deserves
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I find it funny that bitcoin is such a revolutionary technology that even in the midst of its own crash, it is the only sure way to transfer wealth across the world. Today I met a businessman who, in anticipation of the crash, had sold many bitcoins in an exchange. He has 10,000s of fiat currency, but the exchange limitations will not allow him to withdraw it. Even if they did, the wire would take days. His fastest and most reliable way to cash out is to buy the bitcoins back (at a lower rate, but with a fee), withdraw them, send them to me, and take an instant SEPA transfer or cash from the counter. Think about it - how can bitcoin crash, as it is vital for transferring the proceeds of its own crash to the owner's hand?
A youtube dramatization of this woud be killer PR. By the way, I'm very happy to see this thread. It makes me less glum about the crash, though for now it seems to be holding right at exponential support. I agree, perhaps someone with skills can do it. Just ponder for a moment - if we assume that my man sold 500,000m BTC at $0.20, making $100,000 almost pure profit, what can he do to realize his gain? Exactly, buy 1,500,000m BTC at $0.067. Transfer it to OTC merchants. The OTC merchants sell it on, to their customers, fresh people who have no business panicking, as they cannot in general even sell the bitcoins online, so the merchants can easily stop the panic from spreading. Forced strong hands. (Yes, I did refuse one "last week entrant" selling order today for $0.06. The guy will thank me for it. I only allow people to make money with bitcoin, not lose it) Oh, and don't forget, there are only so many coins for sale... Indeed. Now it gets interesting. Somebody sells 500,000m BTC and ends up spreading 1,500,000m BTC to the offline hands. Why is the price rising...  |
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Hi
What price for all 3 100g bars ?
Kind regards
PM sent. No trading during weekend, please. I need rest |
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Pointing out the relationship between AGD and DYM. AGD is ~$1.00 face value of the U.S. silver coins. The exact definition is as follows: "I.2 Silver Dollar (AGD) Silver Dollar (AGD) is a unit of weight of the Coins. AGD 1 = 24.71 grams of dollar - denominated one dime, quarter dollar, half dollar and one dollar coins minted by U.S. Mint in 90% silver in 1964 or earlier. Common trade names for AGD include "90% circulated U.S. silver" and "junk silver". It should be noted that some U.S. One Dollar coins, such as Peace Dollar, are lawful instances of AGD based on weight, and contain on average AGD 1.08 of silver. Anything minted in 1965 or later is never a lawful instance of AGD. The physical measurement of the amount of AGD may not deviate from the correct weight more than 0.25% or AGD 0.05, whichever is greater. From Customer's perspective, weighing or counting of Coins is applied only upon Pick-up. In SIS Information System, AGD balances are recorded to AGD 0.01 precision. When executing trades, the rounding to the nearest AGD 0.01 will be to the benefit of Merchant." It is possible for most people, to buy AGD with bank wire/SEPA from Silvervault. Why is this interesting for bitcoin holders?
- Silvervault also trades in bitcoin. Currently the system is not integrated to bitcoin protocol, so that there is no possibility to fund account or take withdrawals in bitcoin (only Euro). But soon will. Then there will be seamless possibility for almost anyone (most notable exception: U.S. citizens or residents) to buy AGD (=10 DYM) for bitcoin for 0.25-1.00% fee. Why is this interesting for DYM holders?
- AGD and DYM are linear representations of one another. (I would urge OP to fix DYM as exactly 2.471 grams, to achieve easiest conversion.) - We consider to offer AGD codes, which would monetize most of our silver stock of 140,000 AGD for global trading. |
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