you guys all watching it live i hope such action  i went all in the other day on a low, sold a few back on the intraday high, now holding some unrealized losses and gains, lovin it. what you gonna do now market HA!  |
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oh cool i woke up just in time for the bounce
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wow not the best sight to wake up to... such crash!
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Nothing to do with school, I am just surprised we are back here again.
ok ... so do you have a wife or children? I usually do this with hand drawn pictures as the example but today I think fingers suit better...
So say you have a wife and children ? How valuable to you (and them) are their fingers? to me they are WORTH nothing... and the PRICE I give you for them
on the open market is $0
Lets switch this around- do your wife and childrens fingers have any VALUE to you? if so how much are they WORTH to you? and what PRICE will you pay to keep them all in one place with fingers attached to loved ones? more than my PRICE of $0? I bet and why is that? it is because they have more VALUE to you then they do to me, for me the PRICE for your loved ones fingers is $0 for you I imagine and hope a very large figure lets say $100,000 or more
something something <snip>
look above, I did read to the end of that line and there you lost me.... a value of thing is not determined by my self only, it is determined by a whole community, if we think that the value (call it price if you want) of 1 Liter of milk is worth 1$ but then one farmer based on the miracle of grass and water going into the cow and turning out as milk and shit and pee think that that liter of milk is worth at least $1000, that farmer is going to have some bad time selling his shit. but if 40% of farmers think so then there is 40% of greedy motherfuckers. we can go on and on trying to define this (I am wrong with the possibility of being right), but I personally am not buying that theory, wherever I go I pay €€ as a value of a thing. the value translate to that €€ and I didn't see yet in my life a community agrees on something having more value but lower price!!! in fact that just doesn't make any sense to me. I agree to an extent- and I was reducing to the absurd to make a point... Also I should have said your loved ones fingers were WORTH nothing to me not the PRICE was nothing to me... price is price and value is subjective. PRICE and VALUE do have a linkage - not saying they do not, but they ARE DIFFERENT. ....and yes when you broaden it out of course the community plays a part - but as I said I reduced to the absurd, so in the fingers example you did represent the entire community....... but my point remains... PRICE and VALUE and WORTH are different things no matter how you dice it up BUT they are all interlinked and interlinked with SUPPLY AND DEMAND... but interlinked as they may be they are still different things.... Price and value affect each other however price and value are not the same thing.. there is also supply relationship and demand relationship and market equilibrium (competition) to take into account fair enough... And yes sometimes society does place a lower agreed price on something with a higher value to society- for example society as a whole places more VALUE on water than they do on mobile phones, but water is cheaper than mobile phones...even cheap crappy ones (and no it makes no difference that your mobile phone company gave you your phone for free) Water is more valuable than mobile phones to society an everyone knows this (indeed we need water to make mobile phones) and at the moment mobile phones have a higher price than water...but if at anypoint water became scarce (i.e supply dries up) then water will be in higher demand, with less supply, and somewhere where equilibrium is reached the market will agree upon PRICE. Same with phones- less supply, higher demand, and the price will increase... but water still has more VALUE to the collective than mobile phones. Even though subjective and collective VALUE of water is agreed by all to be very high (regardless of supply and demand) however its PRICE will be lower or higher depending on the supply and demand. Also if I want to dig a hole, to dig for water say... to survive, then I may pay the price of $15 to one manufacturer of shovels, or I may get a better deal and pay $10 from a different supplier... however the reason I place any VALUE on the shovel, is because I need the HOLE... the VALUE is not in the shovel itself, but it is in the HOLE it can dig... of course I will buy the same shovel from the person selling it for the cheapest price... .....but say there was a shovel shortage, and shovel prices went up... all of a sudden the PRICE of a shovel is $200 or $250 from their competitor... the quesiton now is... how much is the HOLE worth to me? is it worth the $200 PRICE of the SHOVEL? if the answer is no, then I am NOT paying that PRICE for that shovel because the HOLE is not worth $200, the shovel simply does not jusify the PRICE because the VALUE of the shovel is in the HOLE and as I can for example pay my neighour $50 to take water from his stream for the year... therefore I am not going to pay the price of $200-250 for a shovel, because the PRICE of the shovel really did not matter... what mattered was the value I placed in theshovel, because I needed to dig a HOLE with it, that is the only reason the shovel had any VALUE to me... in this case if the PRICE exceeded the VALUE I get for the shovel, then I would not pay that PRICE...because the PRICE was higher than the VALUE to me. However if my neighour placed a price on using his stream at $500 for the year, then all of a sudden maybe I would have placed a higher VALUE on the shovel beause the value of the shovel is really the value of the the HOLE I NEED TO DIG in that case I would pay the shovel salesman his $200 , and dug my hole , in this case the VALUE exceeds the PRICE and the shovel salesman gets his $200-$250. However the PRICE of the shovel only comes into play if it exceeds the VALUE that the shovel represents.. it could be $10, $50 or $500 - it all depends on the utility of the shovel to me. So if VALUE and PRICE can swap places like this... does it not stand to reason that they are NOT the same thing?Maybe Aminorex is right however in that we may be arguing semantics here... Talking of digging holes... now I get what you are trying to address, but I don't know how is Bitcoin more valuable than the price it translates to today.... and I don't know how all the millions pushed from VCs into Bitcoin and the ETFs and regulation and....made it more valuable, I didn't see any additional use from these companies that got that shitload of money, in fact Coinbase and Bitpay and Bitstamp and... all existed and were doing what they are doing today, and STFs are somehow a way to unload the hundred thousands of coins bought from $0.10-100, just look at this thin order book and everything will be crystal clear. all I see around, is early adopters who had thousands of coins who became rich overnight and become a greedy bastards that have no idea about investing and are wasting money all around silly projects and products thinking they've got it all figured out, this project arent adding any real value, and 70% of these businesses created because of bitcoin doesn't make any sense and I cant see any real use of them (speaking as a bitcoin user), in fact I see more gambling sites, mixing services and fraud schemes and scams than I saw first time I knew about Bitcoin 2 years ago, where do you see the value here ? as a technology Bitcoin was meant(or supposed to be) for the poor, the unbanked, and the over banked, but the biggest use of bitcoin today is speculation (more than ever) and becoming rich, everyone tells you how will you become a millionaire if you hold, no one tells you how can we make it simple to help people in Africa. (I am one of them to be honest) how much value is in that ? there is gr8 value in bitcoin, speculate on that. |
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"Price" = what one paid or must pay to acquire something. An objective concept (everyone who knows how much was paid or is being charged for some item will agree about its price), but is typically different for each transaction, even for successive transactions with the same item. "Market price" = price of the last transaction of the item in some open market, or largest bid or lowest ask in said market. "Value" = how much one would pay to acquire that item, or charge to sell it. A subjective concept (typically the same item will have different values for different people, even at the same time and place), may not be clearly known by the person himself, and may change quickly and radically as the person's mood, ideas, and circumstances change. In a free and conscious commercial transaction, typically the item has higher value to the buyer than to the seller, and the price is some amount between the two values. There's an old quip, " an Economist knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing."  bitcoins Price / Value has stabilized, but it stabilized at like 1 : 10 given all the things you can do with a bitcoin, bitcoin enables real business all over the world, its no joke, it will have a significant impact in the coming years, it really should be priced in the 5-10K range pretty sure the market will eventually catch up and price these precious bits closer to "value" ...maybe go overvalued for a few weeks |
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its really looking UP, why is price going down? maybe the ether sale is making alot of old coin come out of the closet?
Could you elaborate on this?? I think if people are buying ether, their coins get to the people behind the whole ether project... Have they sold their coins? I think they haven't moved yet, right? What do you mean, old coins are coming out of the closet? people might have redeemed an old 50BTC paper wallet to buy in a monstrous position on ether, and ether said they sell... |
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568 this is pretty disastrous... wtf is happening...
Disastrous? Not really, from a TA perspective this still allows for a bullish scenario. But if during the next 1 - 2 days long term support at 540$ will be broken (and I believe it will), then capitulation is a must. It will be fun to watch the panic manifested in these forums and this thread. lol that is interesting. but we seen enghout of that... at this point, 568 this is pretty disastrous... lets see if my bid filled i went all in last night... |
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Do you guys think that the bid/ask ratio on Stamp could in reality be manipulation at its finest? I mean, they could just withdraw their FIAT to the sidelines and wait for everyone to panic. Has this happened before?
I like to Imagine its not for show sure theres some big players putting up small walls on the front lines to manipulate one way or the other... but for a while now the walls have all been mostly real, it use to be walls would often crumble under pressure, or dissapear at the tinyest nibble, we dont see that anymore, its costing more and more to manipulate the market. i see it as market manipulation is now becoming market making. its really looking UP, why is price going down? maybe the ether sale is making alot of old coin come out of the closet? |
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568 this is pretty disastrous... wtf is happening...
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In the meanwhile, LTC flashcrashing to 4.85 and no obvious rebound... you need have stainless steel balls to keep hodling that bag
i bought some yesterday very sad now...  |
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bitcoin is not going to anywhere but down
wat a troll pretty sure you created that account and started talking doom and gloom right after bitcoin bottomed. |
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Why do people continue to quote the trolls?
Because we are all trolls. yup |
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Seriously, you are right in that the current price is not supported by its utility but only by the traders' feelings about what the price will do in the near future.
one of bitcoins "utilities" is entertainment. the price swings are entertaining, the more the price swings the more bitcoins entertainment value goes up! I'd argue that a gr8 deal of this "entertainment value" is priced out of bitcoin atm... so entertaining us, and buy a bitcoin! 1000$ purely on entertainment value  is this not why you came? Are you not entertained?!?!  |
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Regarding the future of bitcoin...
Does anybody here think that some bitcoin 2.0 will replace bitcoin as the most prominent crypto?
The analogy would be Yahoo vs Google for search and then the position to be a #1 Internet powerhouse.
In 2000 Google was just a single page with a search line (although working great even then) while Yahoo was a $150-200 bil behemoth.
Comes Monero (XMR)...
What would be the chance that Monero replaces BTC eventually as the best coin? 1%, 10%, 70%?
The wallet/account that Monero dev showed yesterday looked awesome.
Disclosure: I started buying XMR, but not sure what % to allocate to it vs BTC
you think shitcoin V0.0.1.SHITCOIN is going to repalce bitcoin? no NEW SHINNY SHITCOIN of 2015 is what you wana buy or ltc for fun. |
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pretty sure its gana go sky high pretty soon, its gana slip over 640 into the 700's very fast, shorts are gana get burnt and we'll over shoot to 800, but then something magical will happen bitcoin will be stable for 20mins on high vol and then explode into the 1000's climbing about 100$ a day peaking out on the 32nd day at 4200$ Sept. 24 2014 |
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Secret rocket taking off It's more like this:  You are also welcome to participate on my dumping classes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=727336.0Bear down your bullish sentiment now! So later you won't say: If I only had listened to this dump3er guy! lmao |
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