Edit:
Not sure why.

If Graeme continues to play dividends, then it would probably be best not to send them every day due to transaction fees. All BitFunder bitcoins will be moved to WeExchange, so Graeme, tell us what you're going to do before that. Tell us also if the bonds will be transferable. I hope they will be transferable, because some people might want to sell or buy them.

Are you sure you can't clone the system and then send different transactions? Wouldn't the wallet client just make sure that there are coins to spend and updates the wallet automatically from the network if there were made transactions from another instance of the wallet?

And if you can't do that, then would it make sense to get as fast machine as possible? So if Ukyo puts the client on a twice as fast machine, the numbers of sends would double?

Edit.
In this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224619.0 they are talking it's possible with many clients, as long as you don't spend coin on an empty wallet. If there are funds in the wallet for all transactions, then it should be possible.

Hello Ukyo, try this or something else. Why don't get more CPU power from somewhere, so it will take 1 minute instead of 30? You know the time depends on how much computation power you got, right?

I think it's pointless, because by now everyone realizes that Graem lied about several points in his terms, including the one you mention.

How much is still in circulation?


Whatever, doesn't mean shit what you consider. Give us the numbers, how much is there to redeem and how much assests you have that you can liquidate. What are your income streams? What is the risk of default in case bitcoin raises to 1k USD, 5k, 10k?

While you were busy on your vacation you lost 60% of portfolio? That is very irresponsible considering how much liabilities you have.

Give us numbers, because your considerations are just empty words. And if there is a risk of default in case of increasing bitcoin exchange rates, which is happening as we speak, then just tell it. We don't want to be in dark. If you don't give us numbers, I will start considering sponsoring someone to pay you a visit and get the numbers and real situation.

I also have some shares, but not that much. Same thing with working to redeem shares, I'm prepared to put in some work if it means faster redeeming, or redeeming at all. I think Ukyo should hire someone to go through some work, as it is obvious there is too much to do for him.

mgio, how is your redemption progressing?

Home loans are paid in fiat. These are bitcoins we are talking about, which went up in value about 100% since Graem Tee took this loan. His pool income will decrease, not because difficulty increases, but because mining is increasingly becoming the business of companies and large mining farms that don't need any pools.

His CrownCloud is purely fiat, and while pays a little, it is still fiat. If bitcoin goes up even more, Graem will soon have troubles to pay even the interest, and the loan itself will be very very hard to repay by face value of bonds.

Doesn't really matter if he converted BTC into fiat or not, part of which he did, the truth still is that raising BTC exchange will make harder and harder to pay anything.

Ha, you still care about dividends, when there is a high risk you lose a large portion of your investment?

Changes in asset list between October 24th and 27th.

2 new addresses. 10 addresses disappeared, all had few bonds. Bonds total 200,000 on both dates.

Addresses on 24th: 154.
Addresses on 27th: 146.

Largest gains: 1018, 742 and 600 bonds. All other small, less than 100 bond movements.

Looks like nearly all or all movements due to trading. Redeemed bonds during this time: zero to few hundreds.

I'll give Ukyo some time and analyze the data again sometimes in 3-4 week time.

1BTC is 100 redeemed shares every day. We don't know at what rate he redeems them. Income from Bitfunder is lately just barely more than 1BTC per day. I don't know how much he gets from Weexchange, I think it's not much either.

We need numbers, but if no paying dividends makes him redeem twice as fast, say at the rate of 2BTC per day or 200 bonds per day, then I don't care about dividends. Take into consideration that trading at BitFunder will most likely decrease a lot once all Americans and those who don't want to verify will be out. They're still there and are driving most of trading that has been going on lately.

Yes, I agree that it could be better to pay a percentage of all redemption requests in the queue. That's why I'm asking for numbers so we can decide for ourselves. The holders of bonds should vote what to do.

Your argument on dividend assumes that he can afford to redeem almost 100% of face value and dividends for as long as there are unredeemed bonds. I hope it's true but I don't really know. If there is a risk he can't afford to do that, then I don't care about dividends at all. In that case the only thing I care about is the amount of BTC he gives for every redeemed bond.

If I get my bonds redeemed faster with no dividends rather than risking it and possibly receiving a lot less than face value later, then I vote for no dividends.

Graem must be shocked and in disbelief how bad this loan turned out. I want numbers on his BTC and fiat income. Numbers on investments and any other assets that can be liquidated. Numbers on redeemed shares and request length.

Graem, if you can't afford to redeem this loan fast, stop paying dividends as Ukyo does and put every penny you get into redeeming.

As I already said, I'm prepared for no dividends and less than face value rather than dragging this into the future even by a second longer than necessary.

I see that Ukyo stopped paying dividends. If he is putting every penny he gets into redeeming rather than paying dividends, then it's a good thing and he is on the right track.

As I said before, I'm prepared for less than face value and no dividends rather than dragging this any longer than necessary.

We all know the situation is bad, and I hope Ukyo would come clean and tell how it really is, so we can all decide what we want to do next. I can see people are already getting rid of bonds for 75% of face value which means many start to lose hope.

I am saving asset list from BitFunder every few days. I haven't yet had time to analyze movements. I hope to see some address constantly receiving shares, Ukyo's account that has redeemed bonds. But of course it would be best if Ukyo could tell the numbers, number of redeemed shares so far, number of shares requested to be redeemed, the number of redeemed shares by day, income from his projects (BitFunder, Weexchange etc), other BTC holdings that can be liquidated.

With the numbers we could analyze estimated time to redeem, risks and other.

I also hope information from anyone who got their bonds redeemed. How many, when requested redeeming, when got the BTC. mpr20rt can you tell that?

Yes, we're fucked with this one as well. Graem is an idiot, who didn't think much when he took this loan or he's just can't see the simple fact of rising bitcoin exchange rate.

He took this loan to pay another loan. He says he could get a loan from a bank, but decided to try bitcoin loan on bitfunder. I made simple calculations. Graem took 2000BTC loan and converted it into fiat, he got around 225,000USD.

If he redeems all the shares by the end of 2013, which he won't, he'll pay back roughly 450,000USD. This makes it 100% in interest for 7 month. What bank gives loans with those interests? Maybe mafia.

Graem would have been better if he just took that loan and bought bitcoins, paid back fiat and now he would be much richer. Now he's broke and will probably go bankrupt soon.

Graem also lied about this "This loan is not tied to the success or failure of any business."

It is tied to his CrownCloud and OzCoin. OzCoin is currently 38THash/s. With 2% fee, he can make 332BTC in one year if his percentage stays the same. It won't, mining will soon be the thing of big companies who don't need any pools. It means that his share will drop.

His CrownCloud business is 100% fiat and doesn't pay much. Therefore, Graem's estimations to redeem by 2016 are bullshit. I don't even know how he calculated those estimates, he probably thought exchange rate will stay at 100USD for years now.

Tell me Graem, if the exchange rate is 500USD in 2016, will you come up with 1 million by then? And if it is 1000USD?

The way exchange rate grows, you're paying mafia like interest rates now, Graem. So, stop paying dividends, sell as much as you can what you own, I don't care what you, just redeem as much as possible as fast as possible. I'm prepared for no dividends and less than face value rather than dragging this into 2016, when we'll lose almost 100% of our investments.

Yes, we're really fucked here. Ukyo is an idiot and actually we who invested are also idiots because we didn't ask for any proof.

His loan is not covered, he lied especially about this "This loan is not tied to the success or failure of any business, investments, or opportunities."

It is tied to the success of bitfunder 100%. Now that exchange rate of bitcoin is growing like crazy, his ability to redeem all the shares becomes smaller by day. If it shoots to 500-1000 usd then forget about your bitcoins, they are gone. He'll never be able to pay 1-2 million dollars, he is almost broke.

Ukyo must come clean about his holdings and redeem as many shares as possible as fast as possible. Stop paying dividends mr rich guy and put every fucking penny you get to redeeming. Sell all your BTC investments and redeem as much as you can.

I am prepared for getting less than face value and no dividends for some time. Once Ukyo tells as what the real situations is, we'll vote what to do.

You don't want this to drag into the future, because the longer it takes for Ukyo to redeem, the less you'll get in the future, believe me!

Same thing with Graet.Loan, I'll write a post there too soon.

Right. Good point, many assets that are sold in dollars will not lose value if dollars crashes. They will be sold at different price or different currency. Maybe bitcoin if major currencies crash.

These are a lot of assets that are safe even if you buy them with dollars and dollars crashes.

I wonder if they delay so much until others starts to deliver cheap products such as knc miner, it might kill bfl once and for all. They get new money in only because people are so desperate to buy cheap asics, but no one really delivers except for asicminer, but they are overpriced.

So far I bought bitcoins at localbitcoins.