@figmentofmyass There is also Bitgild, located in the Netherlands. https://www.bitgild.com/ They sell gold and silver and are 'well know' by people in the EU who like to buy gold/silver with cryptos. You will find their ANN thread somewhere in the 'service announcement' section by the way. Talking about the KYC: If you're a European citizen there is no identity verification for transactions under 10 000€ and cumulative transactions under 10 000€. So if you're a regular client, once the total of your purchases hits 10 000€, you will have no choice to get the KYC, but no need if you stay under the 10k line. If you're not from the EU, the limit is higher but I don't remember the amount exactly They use BTCPay to accept Bitcoin payments but you can also pay with Altcoins (via Coinpayment) and stablecoins (via Coinbase) this looks perfect---no bitpay and no KYC under $15k for americans. i'm gonna do a bit more due diligence but i reckon i'll give bitgild a go. thank you @LeGaulois! tbh, i'm surprised a dutch company can maintain that lax of an AML/KYC policy in the face of EU regulations. and no duties taxes if you're from EU since they're from EU
i'm in the states and have zero experience with this. fortunately, i'm reading that there is no duty on gold/bullion. but legally the items must be declared and a FINCEN form will be filed at $10k+. so i'll definitely make sure to keep any shipment below that threshold... |
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But are there people that are paying one percent or even two percent more for btc nowadays? Or vice versa?
lots of high feedback traders obviously make a decent profit selling above spot or buying below. it can take weeks for people to verify on an exchange, deposit money, and then buy---these people are willing to pay high premiums. untrusted users are also paying a premium to deal with trusted users. keep in mind, if you plan to advertise buy/sell offers or otherwise engage in this "as a business" then you may be required to register with the relevant money services business regulator. i've been researching the rules in the USA: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5308020.0running afoul of those regulations could land you in prison, so be very careful! learn the law and stay on the right side of it. similar regulations just went into effect in the UK too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5308411.msg56067476#msg56067476What platforms are reliable? Im American but im outside the US though. localcryptos is my favorite---no KYC and they allow p2p cash listings, unlike localbitcoins. the liquidity is lacking compared to localbitcoins but it's definitely growing. The thing is what is the most common form of payment in these transactions? Is it still cash? Or bank transfer? Or cash deposit in bank?
Because i heard online transfers could be reversed. So wouldn't the most safe form of accepting payment be having the buyer deposit cash in your bank account? bank transfer/cash deposit seems to be the most common method these days. personally i only deal with cash because 1. privacy (avoiding banks and prying eyes) 2. reversal/dispute risk. i've read about cases where even cash teller deposits were reversed. buyer deposits money, the bank credits it, the seller releases escrow, then the buyer returns to the bank and claims they deposited money into the wrong account. the bank reverses the deposit. there are ways to hedge the risks of dealing with online fiat, but at the end of the day there is always counter party risk. any online fiat method which claims to be irreversible is not really irreversible. |
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If you mean the poker market, I think they have been doing extremely well unless you compare them to some big name. Lots of full cash game running 24/7 and some tournaments with over $10k guaranteed running with over 100+ players registered although most of them are probably recreational player that will jam all in with J8o  ( Ironically, I lost few times to such hands ) not irony, just the life of an MTT grinder. suckouts all day, every day! you make betnomi sound pretty juicy tbh. i haven't checked out their tourneys yet. maybe i should now that i've got a couple hundred bucks in my account... I disagree with you, because I am sure that thanks to the forum, at least 100 regular customers have joined Betnomi
point taken. i just don't know how much traffic the forum poker series is driving to the site. |
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The case is only strong against Ripple is because they have a creator to sue behind while Bitcoin does not have one. ethereum has creators to sue but the SEC came out and said ETH wasn't a security. obviously the case against ripple goes deeper than that. i think it has more to do with XRP investors' profits being completely tied to the efforts of ripple labs and their agents. from the SEC complaint: Defendants’ statements and actions and the economic reality of Ripple’s relationship to XRP and of Ripple’s payments to third parties to help it achieve widespread trading of XRP has led and will continue to lead reasonable investors to expect Ripple and its cadre of experts to undertake significant and essential technical, managerial, and entrepreneurial efforts on their behalf. after skimming through the complaint, i'm beginning to think they'll target binance's BNB next. it's huge (currently the #11 coin) and it ticks off the same boxes re the howey test, especially the scheduled token burns based on binance's profits. |
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phew! i'm in the states. that explains it. thank you for sharing the link. not that i don't expect similar policies to be rolled out in the USA---i do. i'm just enjoying the non-KYC situation while we still have it. At the end of the day, KYC for any and every payment, no matter how small (getting KYCed to buy a pizza!) is utterly ridiculous. We should not be OK with this.
i don't know the intricacies of AMLD5 but i think it mandated a €50 limit on anonymous payment methods. IIRC even EU-based faucets and tipping services shut down because of it. so i'm not entirely surprised. brutal... |
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I have bought from each of the above two. Both companies offer good service. I have kept purchases under $3000 (each order) just to avoid needless KYC (though I did do KYC with Bitpay to get their debit card).
The gold dealers, of course, will know something about you, depending on how secretive (or not) you can be about your shipping address. Including what and how much you bought. Let's just hope that they don't pull a "Ledger" on you (have their info on you hacked).
If privacy is very important to you, then just buy in cash from your LCS (local coin shop). Again, under $3000 (reporting requirements).
thanks. i've been doing some p2p trading for cash, and that is an attractive route, but i'm trying to keep it at volumes/frequency where it won't arouse unnecessary attention. i was hoping buying gold with bitcoin (sans KYC) could complement that strategy, rather than forcing me to do larger cash transactions just to cover the gold. i was thinking about using a drop shipper as an extra layer of privacy. of course, that increases the chances that the gold never shows up... I have seen threads pop up in the "Goods" section of this forum for precious metals, bullions, gems, pricey watches and so on. Probably these are the only few who will accept a p2p trade thus going away from all the KYC/Payment processor things in the middle.
Some of them are even older users with good trade history and reputation, so it might be worth checking them out if you get time, you might have to look through that section and its cesspool of threads before finding a legitimate one and that too if they are still selling or not.
Just make sure to use an escrow if you finalize on doing the trade.
i'm a tad wary of doing gold p2p due to the risk of counterfeits or poor condition. i prefer to go through a reputable dealer. but i'll look into it, thanks. |
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i'm interested in buying gold coins with bitcoin. i am hoping to avoid KYC. the most prominent choices are https://www.apmex.com and https://www.jmbullion.com. both process their bitcoin payments through bitpay, who may be in the process of mandating KYC.apmex says in their terms they will demand KYC "at their discretion". jmbullion requires KYC above $3k. so i'm thinking about buying 1 coin at a time from jmbullion, to keep it under $3k. does anyone have any reviews for either site, and have they ever demanded KYC from you? are there other gold dealers who accept bitcoin---preferably not through bitpay? |
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i just bought a $100 amazon gift card through the bitpay wallet a few moments ago. no KYC required. also bought $500 in gift cards ~12 hours ago on egifter through bitpay---same.
Do you think Bitpay could have found enough information about you through one of the many possible channels such that they decided not to bother to ask you for KYC? that seems rather doubtful. i've never used bitpay to pay a service where i've KYC'd, and i really don't think browser/IP/blockchain analysis is a functional replacement for a KYC program that demands official photo ID. i don't think a legal compliance-minded company like bitpay would operate that way, but i could be wrong. i have a couple theories: 1. they are rolling out region-specific policies based on things like IP address and it's not clear yet which regions are affected 2. they had not/have not fully rolled these policies out, so there are inconsistencies happening right now we'll probably know a lot more in a couple weeks as more reports come out. |
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I've moved on to different platforms. Wasn't feeling the environment anymore, and not running our series there made it easier to cut ties.
+1, i finally got around to cleaning out my account last night. the coins arrived this morning. i noticed their wallet at least uses native segwit now.  but yeah, the rake issues, chat issues, and general bad vibes from management all had me heading this direction. the domain snafu felt really unprofessional---that was the last straw for me. |
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If I am not mistaken, then in one of the messages Betnomi claimed that the prize fund would be expanded ... I will try to find this message as, I am a little surprised that we started talking about the opposite. i don't think the series is exactly a boon for their profits. they were probably hoping it would draw in more players/depositors, which would in turn bring more overall traffic to the site. at this size, we should probably be content with whatever crumbs they wanna throw us. That was the BTC tournament on SWC, in this series we've only been doing the entry and it's FIAT based on Betnomi with a 15$ entry. We haven't run a side pool at all here for lottery or anything like that. I've preferred it this way. I can't even remember what it was at the time but I think it was still around 15 USD at that time depending on price.
same. when the idea originally arose i was hoping the side pool would increase engagement, but at this point i think it would be a deterrent. people just wanna buy in and play when they're available (me included), not do some convoluted prepaid side thing. i like the flat ~15 USD buy-in. hope to see you in the next series, @johhnyUA! |
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I've never sent funds via wire and I don't feel like paying the fee--that's one reason why I'm not proceeding with the Gemini registration. The other reason is that I don't like my bank, and right now it's the only one I've got. A couple of years ago, the bank manager pulled me aside when I went in to make a deposit, and she asked me what "all those charges to Circle are". I told her I was buying bitcoin, and I have a feeling I've been under suspicion ever since.
Thus I don't want to wire money from my bank to a crypto exchange. And yeah, I probably should look for a different bank, but there aren't many available in my immediate area and it's just a fucking hassle jumping through hoops these days.
lemme guess, you bank at some rinky-dink local bank who is stuck in the year 1999? they make you physically come in to wire money, right? for all the shit people talk about big banks like bank of america, at least you can do wire transfers 100% online in ~5 minutes. and they don't hassle you over transacting with crypto services---as long as you are using a personal, not business, account. i hate to sound like a banking sales rep (lol) but they give account opening bonuses that would more than pay for the $30 outgoing wire fee. i'm just throwing this out there because it seems like it would make your life a lot easier. |
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Per SCMP, a team of scientists at the Dalian Institute of Chemical Physics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Liaoning have developed a method to turn cheap, plentiful copper into a substance that is “almost identical” to gold, accomplishing what alchemists have for hundreds of years believed could be a gateway to endless riches.
So, nope, it's not gold and it can't be passed out as gold: Sun and the other researchers explained that, at least in its current incarnation, the process could not practically be used to create counterfeit gold coins or bars since its density remains the same as normal copper. this could make for a fascinating experiment in the debate over where gold's value is derived from. there is a popular theory that gold's value storage properties actually stem from its "intrinsic" or real world non-monetary utility---this is what "backs" gold's usage as a form of money. so, if this "fake gold" can really fulfill all the industrial/medical uses of gold much more cheaply, that would throw that whole thesis into question. if gold's value holds even as this "fake gold" floods manufacturing markets, it would prove that the "store of value" aspect of money has little to do with non-monetary demand. this would support the idea that bitcoin could have immense value in spite of having no intrinsic or non-monetary value. |
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We know it is scarce, but we also know that Bitcoin is not actually perfect which means that if there will another crypto that can caught the fancy of the people then it is also possible that Bitcoin can be set aside.
This is my worry. Especially the Litecoin/silver narrative, when gold and silver have different properties, whereas the difference between Bitcoin and Litecoin is largely psychological. as far as precious metal investors go, the difference between gold and silver is largely psychological too. every one i've met primarily invests in gold but also wants some exposure to more speculative rocks like silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, etc. the classic investment mindset is all about diversification and sector analysis. most investors are much more focused on how all precious metals are alike and how their markets are correlated than about physical properties and real world (non-speculative) usage. they only care about where the price is headed. the same paradigm applies to bitcoin/altcoin investment IMO. and that's a big reason why altcoins are gonna be with us for the long haul. however, just like the gold vs [all other precious metals] distinction, i think bitcoin is very likely to remain the dominant coin. even if we don't consider the actual security and network effect aspects (which make bitcoin drastically superior to other coins) the first mover advantage is incredibly powerful and difficult to overcome. |
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Thoughts? Not trying to FUD here but what are the implications of this?
supposedly, QE is driving an asset bubble---including in bitcoin. logically, tapering QE would therefore imply a potential popping of that bubble. the fed chair just mentioned the possibility of tapering in late 2021 or early 2022. fun fact: the term originally emerged when ben bernanke suggested in may 2013 (several months before the october 2013 bubble) that the fed might soon taper QE. they actually did reduce and eventually end QE in 2014, during bitcoin's bear market. https://www.thebalance.com/fed-tapering-impact-on-markets-416859coincidence or not? who knows. |
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if i can't get amazon gift cards through the bitpay wallet anymore, the only other consistent option will be bitrefill, and they charge a pretty big markup. What prices are BitPay charging for their cards? I've never found Bitrefill prices to be that expensive. At the moment, a $500 Amazon card works out to around $503 worth of bitcoin, but with the 1% reward that they offer that comes out at $498. You can even get up to 5-6% back on some other retailers, which makes their cards work out pretty cheap indeed. it's actually been quite a while since i've used bitrefill. i remembered the markup being ~2% many months ago, but it's ~0.8% now. that's not accounting for the 1% bonus either---not bad at all. bitpay does 1:1 no markups/no bonuses, but they do charge their annoying network/miner fees, which are sorta highway robbery during high congestion times. the silver lining is they honor payment without confirmation, so delivery is instant. thanks for pointing that out. bitrefill is better than i thought. |
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Okay so I saw bitcoin early days because a competitor site owner briefly offered it as a payment method for their products. I thought this cryptocurrency will never work because it will either 1). get regulated / shut down, or 2). never be accepted by the general populous.
Neither of these happened and finally I bought a diversified holding of £10,000 in 2019 to hedge against future pain. I still have this holding untouched including 1 btc and have no plans to sell it until I am sure it has hit full critical mass or goes to zero.
My question: Should I just forget about bitcoin now and go back to my business?
it sounds like you've bought bitcoin strictly as a long term investment/hedge. if that's your orientation---and that's fine; you certainly aren't alone in that---then you should probably just HODL. keep your coins safe in cold storage and come back in a few years. the mass/institutional adoption scenario seems to be playing out. enjoy the ride.  if you're ever interested though, bitcoin is a fantastic tool for financial and privacy freedom. it's very liberating transacting without care for borders, regulations, etc and away from the prying eyes of banks and other 3rd party financial institutions. it's not only an investment, but also electronic cash. in fact, i would say its censorship resistance, pseudonymous nature, and fungibility qualities (which underlie bitcoin's network effect) are a very important part of its fundamental investment value. |
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In 2020 we saw institutions adding Bitcoin to their balance sheets - in 2021 we may see nation-states follow suit. governments holding bitcoin reserves---quite an ambitious goal inside just one year! what are the odds of that?  2020 was the year institutional investors recognized that Bitcoin is a viable option for offsetting the abundance of paper money and the cumbersome nature of gold. this goes along with their #dropgold ad campaign, but i dunno if i buy it. gold has been rallying all year, including new ATHs. i think it's more about fiat money vs hard money. I must admit I am quite disappointed by the lack of information about in-kind purchases. Hope to hear more from them in the future. what do you mean exactly? and even if I am not their biggest fan, I must admit they did an incredible job promoting Bitcoin as a viable asset for investors. +1. |
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i just bought a $100 amazon gift card through the bitpay wallet a few moments ago. no KYC required. also bought $500 in gift cards ~12 hours ago on egifter through bitpay---same. i'm not exactly calling bullshit; i'm sure something is happening. but it doesn't appear to be across the board, yet anyway. it's also possible that the OP of that reddit thread is just triggering the known thresholds (like a $3k purchase) and taking a screenshot. you never know. i haven't seen any reports about this surface on coindesk/cointelegraph or other places like that. i hate bitpay, but i'll be bummed out if there is truth to this and they're in the process of rolling it out. if i can't get amazon gift cards through the bitpay wallet anymore, the only other consistent option will be bitrefill, and they charge a pretty big markup. |
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OK, so here's a followup:
I was able to easily add my debit card as a method of "instant funding" (or whatever they called it), and then after going through the KYC process they said the next step was to send a wire deposit to them(!).
I've never sent money via wire before, and I really don't want to. Therefore I figured if that was the only option to continue on Gemini, I would close my account. Which I did. I couldn't even buy bitcoin with the debit card that I'd entered.
Did I do something wrong here or what?
aren't you in the USA? are you sure you looked at all the deposit options? they definitely support ACH transfers. https://www.gemini.com/blog/gemini-introduces-debit-card-supporthttps://support.gemini.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032219551-How-do-I-send-in-a-Bank-Transfer-ACH-deposit-maybe they were just temporarily unavailable? you did KYC already---it seems like a waste to just have them close your account now. they won't be deleting your account data. i would probably email them to reopen your account, and then inquire about the availability of (free) ACH deposits if you don't see them listed on your deposit page. https://exchange.gemini.com/transfer/deposit |
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Trying to figure out taxes for coin/coin trades I made in 2018 as the IRS hit me with a letter saying they think I owe them a ton of money recently for that year. But I'm getting confused about figuring out the numbers correctly for coin/coin trades. if you don't mind saying, what exchange(s) were you using? had you completed KYC and provided your SSN? (just curious where the IRS is pulling data for these warning letters!) So say the year starts and I already have some BTC on an exchange worth some amount of cost basis. I then make a bunch of coin/coin trades during the year, I transfer more coins into the exchange that have their own cost basis, I transfer out some coins that have whatever cost basis has resulted from the trade for them, and I have some amount of coins left over at the end of the year on the exchange that now have a certain cost basis.
So the separate parts are: initial coin cost basis starting the year, cost basis of all trades, sale price of all trades, cost basis of coins deposited during the year, cost basis of coins withdrawn during the year, and the value of the coins left on the exchange at the end of the year.
So to figure out capital gains/losses do I do:
(sale price of all trades + value of coins withdrawn during year + value of coins left on exchange)
- (cost basis of all trades + cost basis of all coins deposited during year + initial coins cost basis) it depends if you use FIFO vs LIFO vs specific lot identification. https://tokentax.co/help/fifo-lifo-minimization-and-average-cost-explained/your situation sounds complex. you might wanna hire a company like tokentax. you can dump all your exchange export data on them and they'll crunch the numbers and figure out the ideal cost accounting method to minimize your liability. Yeah I'm working in USD. I am using the USD price at the time of the trade of BTC or ETH (whichever one was the base coin I was trading with) to get the USD price for each trade. But still, unlike trading in USD, when I buy it still counts as a sale because I'm buying crypto when I'm selling crypto. So that makes it confusing. Yeah I calculated all the gains/losses from each individual trade, but I'm just confused on how to add everything up to accurately get my capital gain/loss.
dealing with coin-to-coin trades manually is a nightmare. it's still the same principle as selling for USD---you're selling for another coin which has a specific USD value. you could think of it as "selling for USD then buying another coin with that USD". that's how the IRS views it. the selling part of the transaction is obviously taxable. |
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