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81  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: What would you change about the Bitcoin protocol? on: June 09, 2011, 08:24:46 AM
Higher transaction fees lead to slower transactions:
That's right, but it is a problem only if a large majority of nodes do that and if some does:


There's an incentive to do so, and a good protocol should take it into account I think.

Since transactions are spread all over the network, only the transactions' hash are transfered in blocks.
Nodes are supposed to already have the transaction in inventory, if they dont have, they wont validate
the block until they have received all.
Low block spread is bad for all nodes, but the block of someone that kept some transactions will be transfered
over the network slowly compared to others and could lose race.

(there is also a system to extend the transaction fee of an emited transaction, which could be used to
"award" nodes having it, if client see that transaction has been correctly spreaded)

Your way to solve that problem is good but each transaction would need to access to more accounts which have a cost in disk IO
also i use a one time signature scheme (using hash chains) which can't do that, an emited transaction can't be modified.

Enforced limits are not optimal and Not truly decentralized:
i haven't put limits, limits means doubts in the protocol capacity.

Unmanageable storage requirements:
Huge storage needs also means huge bandwidth needs.
By reducing this, we increase the network number of nodes, strenght
and reduce the transactions fees.

final result is similar (transactions are only stored 3month, all is kept in a list containing all accounts).
I differenciate account and addresses (address = public key, used to create an account).
Very old accounts without activity also have a small fee each year (these will be mostly account of users that have lost their private key)
How to deal with 'old accounts' (or the growing number of accounts) is definitly one thing I don't have a proper solution for.

The way i manage accounts and transactions is different, but I also think storage is a problem since it is the easiest way for someone to attack the network.
For example, without being paranoid, someone could use 1million $ to create transactions that will
take the most possible definitive storage in the chain, that could make serious problem to nodes.
And it could be far more, mass storage capacity is part of the network security.

(Assuming the network is a real p2p network and that nodes have average user disk storage, if there was only
few hundred nodes maybe they could handle, but the currency would not be "p2p" anymore)

No unnecessary difficulty:
I have keep the way bitcoin manage the block race, but with some optimizations and more challenge
between nodes that spread the block.

Proof-of-work as ’currency’:
the way b$ is done, i could not handle a non fixed number of units.
instead i have made the award proportional to the target a of block

I am very curious about what you're developing and the solutions you have. Since most of the above seems to involve your protocol, I will respond on your b$ site or in a pm. One general remark: I don't think trying to develop a new protocol on your own is a good idea. I hope there will be an initiative quickly, in which more developers will assemble and start writing together.
82  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: What would you change about the Bitcoin protocol? on: June 07, 2011, 09:07:52 PM
    Thanks for writing an interesting paper Steve. I need to think about some of its proposals more, but here are a few early comments:
    Thanks Mike. I was just starting to think every developer was too busy following mtgox...

    Bitcoin already defines the winning chain to be the chain of highest total difficulty, not the longest.
    Quote from: S. Nakamoto
    The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it.
    What i'm missing is clear, unambiguous specs. But maybe you have a link?

    I think you are over-concerned about storage costs (I think Satoshi was too). Storage is incredibly cheap and the price has been falling for a long time. When I look at the costs involved with running a high speed Bitcoin node, the bottlenecks are things like CPU time and disk seeks, not number of bytes storable.
    I agree that you probably know best what the bottlenecks are. But I don't agree storage isn't a problem. Say one transaction is 0.2 kb, suppose we want Bitcoin to be used by millions of users, say 100 million. Then storing that one transaction costs at least 20 Gb. Which is not good enough for micropayments I'd say.

    Removing script and simplifying the transaction format is superficially attractive, but would eliminate a lot of useful features that are helpful for a non-trust based financial system. The script language isn't really that hard to implement or review. Bitcoin is still millions of times simpler than, say, a web browser. My gut feeling is that Satoshi made the right flexibility:complexity tradeoff here.
    My gut says it's too complicated, but you might be right. Haven't seen a killer application yet, but must admit I could do some more studying on this one.

    The idea of allowing peers to peel off fees for themselves before relaying is very interesting. I think this is the strongest part of your proposal. I also suspect it's possible to implement on top of Bitcoin using the features that are already there, but I haven't thought about it enough to prove it.
    Think it basically comes down to including a possibility to send private keys along with transactions.

    Early adopter wealth might seem "unfair" but I don't think that's enough to convince people to switch to another currency. People who used Bitcoins when they were worthless deserve a reward for their efforts. Nobody is going to end up owning big chunks of the planet because it's so very unlikely Bitcoin will fully replace existing currencies within our lifetimes, perhaps never. Much more likely is that it finds a niche in the electronic payments space, grows to fill that niche then stabilises.
    Then for your sake I hope your right. As long as you understand that a completely 'fair' system, as described, is very feasible too.

    I didn't really understand your proposal about chain difficulty. Blocks have a cost associated with them, even though it's small, so allowing people to flood trivial blocks that then have to be stored and verified doesn't seem to help. It's just another DoS avenue.[/li][/list]
    I wanted to get rid of arbitrary limits (maximum block size, difficulty) and 'time'. There will be more chain-forks, maybe chaos and anarchism (up to a point: the specification). But don't believe flooding will get you far, I expect an optimal equilibrium difficulty.
    83  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: What would you change about the Bitcoin protocol? on: June 07, 2011, 12:26:46 PM
    I like some of your suggestions, but I am not sure if the new transaction fee structure you propose will work. Also I am not really sure I understand how the new block-chain will work.
    Thanks, I'm very easily flattered! It could very well be that I didn't explain it clearly enough, but could you please be more specific about what part you don't understand?

    I don't think you are correct in claiming that
    Quote
    Some of the mentioned shortcomings may very well lead to a suffocation or even collapse of the current Bitcoin system.
    I don't see any significant shortcomings in bitcoin that will lead to its collapse. I think it suffers from the fact that the protocol is still not well defined and the implementation is overly complicated, but there are no major flaws that will lead to its collapse. The main idea behind it is very sound.

    It'd be quite easy to defend that the system MAY collapse, but I won't be so bland. Some quotes, maybe that'll initiate some proper discussion:
    - Higher transaction fees lead to slower transactions
    - Enforced limits are not optimal
    - Not truly decentralized
    - Unmanageable storage requirements
    - Technical difficulty
    - Current distribution is unfair

    We could discuss about where the 'main idea' (which I too find very sound) stops, but until these issues are addressed I think bitcoins will not get much further than a nice new subject of unfounded speculation for the not-so-technically-literate.

    For any successor to bitcoin to actually have a following, I think it needs to provide some minimal backward compatibility with the current client. Even if a completely different protocol or a different blockchain is used, at the very least the current wealth distribution must be preserved, or there must be a smooth path to move current bitcoins into the new bitcoins. Lacking that, the new currency will probably have to start trading from zero and compete with the old implementation of bitcoin.

    You are absolutely right, I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise (I happen to have some bitcoins myself), but at the moment I think starting from zero is the only way. I remember reading in this forum (or in some documentation) about some smooth transition policy.
    84  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: What would you change about the Bitcoin protocol? on: June 07, 2011, 10:50:51 AM
    Well, I'd want some very fundamental changes, probably only realizable in a fork. Please have a look:

    http://www.newbitcoin.org/documents/newbitcoin.pdf

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