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I can't imagine why this matters to you. Are you honestly saying that you don't know what I mean by prosperity? You don't understand what wealth and progress are? Why these nitpicks? What possible relevance does it have? I don't understand why you want me to jump through all these odd hoops. Do you honestly not know what I mean? Or are you one of those people who insist that we can't talk about "intelligence" until we can precisely define it and come up with units for it?
Of course it matters. Do you consider the case in which as society we have a better cars to drive but more illnesses due to chronic stress a progress ? |
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replacing manual laborers with more thinkers/designers. The work will be easier, but there will likely be a lot more of it.
I will not even go into detail of you argument because the situation is much more complicated and reasoning is flawed. But imagine world with 6 bllions of thinkers/designers ? How do you see everyone will have an opportunity for job to survive ? Useful jobs i might not not useless like marketers bankers or lawyers. |
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Getting specialized in these fields takes A LOT of time and work. Why wouldn't these people ask "Why am I busting my butt, spending YEARS to learn this stuff, just to provide these goods/services to people so that those people won't have to work or learn, and have everything they want provided to them?" Sure, there will be a few (maybe a lot) of people who are interested in these fields, but why would they want to do this work for others without asking for anything in return? And what if there is a shortage of people to do these things? Will someone have to force people to work on this?
Get real . It is happening right now even in predatory monetary system. Plenty of open source projects in advanced technologies like informatics and engineering. |
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We don't exchange the products of our labor for money because we want it, what we want is the porducts of the labour of other people.
And why would you want to labor of the other people if thing can be done faster and better by automation processes. Do you need that many prostitutes ? |
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But the problem is, they're not wasting their life, they're wasting other people's lives by taking other people's inputs (wealth workers produced and partially paid back in taxes) and turning it into nothing. So, they don't have freedom; they are dependent on other's for survival, and contribute very little in return.
Thus why automation. So you dont have to work to keep someone else alive. But the main point is still, why won't an RBE society end up with a vast majority of the population being lazy and doing nothing, while being stuck dependent on the few people/machines that are actually producing something?
There is no actual proof that lazy people are being generated just because they have access to free food. But lets say that would become a problem a logical action would to analyze situation via scientific methods and acct accordingly since generating society of "lazy" people is a bad idea. We have amazing machinery that can scan our brains or do other stuff , we learn more and more about human psychic, our science is progressing every day. Why dont we actually study and found out actual cause of generating lazy people instead of assuming stuff and arguing over what we think is right. Todays course of action is to force people to work so they can survive. Yes that is the incentive but it has a lot of back drawbacks like chronic stress which is deadly. But if we actually found out that all it would take is to change our educational system thanks to which we would get much better result. We will never know if we just get stuck in our old rigid paradigms. Obviously for all of our benefit the goal would be to generate such an environment that would incentive people to advance them-selves , but not in a way it is constructed now - "claw your way". |
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Just had a thought/realization about this. There are people who live on welfare and food stamps, and have for generations. There are whole communities of people like that around the world. They live within the main aspects of RBE, having food and shelter provided to them, and not having to worry about anything, with having plenty of time to devote themselves to whatever they want. Why is it that those people generally don't do anything other than waste time in front of a TV or video games, don't study anything at all, have no drive to learn any employable skills, and generally don't do anything that leads to "an engaging, dynamic, fulfilling and rewarding experience?" Why would a society living under an RBE system not end up just like our welfare communities?
Interesting while in fact there is some problem with the people you describe , why i dont know i would guess it is more complex then you describe it , but on the other hand i know plenty that educate them-selves by their own free choice beside work in useful subjects like informatics , engineering just because they like it. Beside i dont care about people that "waste time in front of a TV or video games" it is their life to waste as long as they dont cause problems , isn't it true freedom that you are you so preciously strive for ? |
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@cypherdoc:
You are soooo right.
Gold will surprise almost everyone when it goes down hard against the USD. We have have seen already the top today (went short at 1766 $ today) . But even if not, it will start from a bit higher levels and still has huge downside.
Based on my chart analysis, 1300-1400 is the first target, but will fall soon to lead then to 1000-1100. And then we will see. If this does not hold, 600-800 are next.
ah, S3052 my favorite tech analyst! yes, i think this will be the short of a lifetime. Demand for gold is too high. Is somehow gold drops to 1300 dues to manipulation i would sell everything and buy gold. Silver was managed to be subdued because the market is small. |
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You forgot that blowing up the plant is the secret part of plan or can happen as just an accident. And socialism prevents it how exactly? I am sad that you bring about discussion to binary options. I dont see how i can even start to reason with you but i will give it a try. In a reasonable,pragmatic society which goal is sustainability and healthy lives, nuclear plants is a no go. It is like roulette in which we bet our survival and we have alternative technologies at the same time. We have science and it show us how radiation can affect us, we cant dispose or defend against it as well. It is obviously retarded . |
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The term "air" can refer to the location in which air is or the air that happens to be in a particular space at a particular time. It's not really sufficiently well-defined for a yes or no answer to "Is air property" to be meaningful. Suffice it to say that if you pollute air on your property in such a way that it damages my use or enjoyment of my property, the majority of free market advocates would argue that your conduct should be legally actionable. Whether you say that means they consider air to be property or not is not particularly important.
It is amazing how you ignore the fact that air moves all the time around entire globe. The one second i breath some certain cube of air and then it travels and you breath it. Seriously wtf do you live on a different planet then the rest of us ? |
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if all plutonium holder would form a monopolies on plutonium, then there would be one.
I though free markets prevents forming of monopolies. If not, then it fails. and honestly if they are smart enough to purify plutonium, they will also be smart enough to not sell to you.
But i want to produce electricity and i pay well. You forgot that blowing up the plant is the secret part of plan or can happen as just an accident. |
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You stopping me from building nuclear plant and government from enforcing taxes on you.
im not stopping you, go build. just give me one good reason i should sell you my plutonium. wanna pay $1million per gram? not selling, sorry. I am lucky then there are no monopolies on free market. Huh. |
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you are free to try to build it, i am free to try to stop you, you are free to try to stop me from stopping you, etc, etc.
And now government is free to own your ass and you are free to stop it and they are free to put you in fail etc,etc , do you consider it free market ? How circular logic is that. go away troll! No really i want to understand. What is the difference of freedoms between. You stopping me from building nuclear plant and government from enforcing taxes on you. |
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because there is a free market, it does not mean people are selling.
Even more importent it doesnt mean they dont. |
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you are free to try to build it, i am free to try to stop you, you are free to try to stop me from stopping you, etc, etc.
And now government is free to own your ass and you are free to stop it and they are free to put you in fail etc,etc , do you consider it free market ? How circular logic is that. |
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just because you have a free market, does not mean that you have the skills to build a nuclear bomb
Not bomb because bomb has limited radius . Plutonium can be dispersed over entire planet thanks to jet streams. We live on single interconnected world, someone else's freedom is interfering with your own even if you dont see it. "6 billion other people will have the freedom to come and stop you by any means they see fit." There you go , your first regulation. "You cant buil nuclear plants full of obsolete fuel type based on plutonium". Just so i wont get accused of hijacking , my definition of free market is building extremely deadly technologies that can wipe out entire mankind or some of it , in name of profit. Or doing the hell i want without regardless of the consequences. |
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"Free market" means no person or group has the right to force any other person or group to make any economic decision. This leaves room for government involvement in a very narrow field - namely contract enforcement and theft and violence prevention/prosecution.
In practice, this would have a few key features:
- No minimum wage
- No taxation of trade or income
- No import/export restrictions
- No central control of monetary systems, no central bank
- No FDIC
- No "consumer safety regulations"
- No building codes
- No FDA
- No prohibition of substances
- No prohibition of voluntary action (incl. gambling and prostitution, etc.)
The United States of America is not even close to a "free market." It is a socialist/corporatist nation, not a capitalist nation (the fact that it's not as socialist as other places doesn't make it capitalist).
Finally i can build my own nuclear plant full of plutonium rods and then blow it up. Game over mankind. |
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if only because I have a vivid imagination, and can imagine starving to death in the Ukraine because my farm was collectivised,
Some people would argee that farms were in fact were privately owned by communist party and collectivised only in name, and were used as a political tool. Famine was artificially created bu it looks like you have no clue whatsoever you just repeat propaganda. Just like most of the farm lands and seeds will soon belong to monsanto and the like, your ass will be owned just like in ukraine. Communist or "free market" it is all the same shit used to control just different method. |
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Does not free market mean being able to sell/buy whatever I want at whatever price I want? That is pretty much my definition of free market. No floor/ceiling on prices and no restrictions on what to sell/buy. ??
Can i buy slaves ? I Really wish i could. I hope free market happens. |
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Hey i though USA is socialist ?
Am in the wrong forum ?
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Sorry, I though I was talking with someone who knows the basics. Let me explain:
If you make a voluntary choice, that is not using violence or thread of violence, you are not distorting the singals. You are peacefully cooperating.
If you foce people to make some decisions or deprive them of options using violence or thread of violence then you are distorting the signals in the market because people is not choosing according to their needs but forced.
So what you saying is that for example JP MORGAN selling silver naked short is a peaceful cooperation and its is not distortion of price of any kind ??  EDIT: And let me clarify again because I think you did not get it. I did not say HFT is not free market. What I said is the way is used today and in general the state of the whole financial system is not a free market outcome, but an outcome of the progressive/conservative policies.
Well i responded to someone who claimed that HFT is not a free market. |
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