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81  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need help installing on Redhat on: August 13, 2010, 06:01:32 PM
Big business (Red Hat, IBM, maybe Novell too?) has spent Big Money hiring Real Lawyers, who determined that openssl's EC and EC-DSA support should not be distributed due to patent worries.

Red Hat and IBM have done extensive work and spent millions of dollars clearing a lot of open source code of patent worries, using a combination of lawyer review and patent pooling.  If, after all that, they advise against using something -- I am going to listen.

Then I suggest, going to them and asking for license. Just like SCO will give you license for Unix still for some money.

They don't sell licenses for openssl, they just avoid it, based on multiple independent legal advisors.

We should take the hint...

So how many independent legal advisors say that the other independent legal advisors are wrong? There are always at least 2 sides to the issue and you don't need to be a legal advisor to decide what works best.

When they actually start winning some courts cases (last I checked years ago, they lost), then I'll put more thought into the issue.
82  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: fraud > transaction fee on: August 13, 2010, 05:58:05 PM
You skip a lot of steps.
if bitcoin market is gonna be worth $50 million and this will be possible, then they will invest in those steps and steal a few millions destroying the network. It might be even legal in some countries.
You are depending on something that no one know exist yet though. That's it's possible to create an army of CPU for less than it will cost to steal those millions. I'm sure botnet operators would fall into that category, but if anyone owns that much CPU power, they would make more money stealing from the existing electronic currency market (think global stock market) than trying to take control of bicoin. Plus you forget that we are still here watching everything, as this is an open source community. If you can get the entire community to remain silent for a global bitcoin conspiracy, then bigger problems are at hand than someone cheating bitcoin.

Security through obscurity certainly isn't possible with bitcoin and that's it's strong point.
83  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: My problem with this idea... on: August 13, 2010, 05:52:17 PM
I like the idea of Bitcoin, with one exception... that the resources could be used for grater good, instead of wasting them. How about making "valuable" calculations, instead of calculations, for calculations sake?
What I am talking about is modifying the BOINC client (http://boinc.berkeley.edu/) and getting Bitcoins for generated work on finding a cure for cancer or some other project.
Apples to oranges I'm afraid.

That's like asking that we take the SETI data and apply it to Gene folding.

BitCoin works off a Secure Hash Algorithm, so we can't throw gene data or radio frequency data into it and build a working chain of proof.
84  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: fraud > transaction fee on: August 13, 2010, 05:35:45 PM
Isn't it like when you have more computing power then generators, then you can easily manipulate network? I state that current transaction fee system doesn't provide enough incentive to generate, so when inflation will slow down evil people would be able to easily take control over system.
You skip a lot of steps.

It would be me saying "When people are tired of government, I should be able to take over the world".
85  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: fraud > transaction fee on: August 13, 2010, 04:45:17 PM
That's a social problem, not a technical problem.  Undecided
86  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need help installing on Redhat on: August 13, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
Big business (Red Hat, IBM, maybe Novell too?) has spent Big Money hiring Real Lawyers, who determined that openssl's EC and EC-DSA support should not be distributed due to patent worries.

Red Hat and IBM have done extensive work and spent millions of dollars clearing a lot of open source code of patent worries, using a combination of lawyer review and patent pooling.  If, after all that, they advise against using something -- I am going to listen.

Then I suggest, going to them and asking for license. Just like SCO will give you license for Unix still for some money.
87  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bugfixes in SVN rev 130 on: August 13, 2010, 03:17:25 AM
-paytxfee switch, e.g. -paytxfee=0.01

So, -paytxfee sets nTransactionFee.

Can someone explain how nTransactionFee causes a client to behave?

And more specifically, what happens when node A sets 1000.0 and all other nodes use 0.01?

You want to send someone a payment for 10BTC and it puts up a warning "it's going to cost 1010 to send the BTC?"  Grin
88  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Where is the separate discussion devoted to possible Bitcoin weaknesses. on: August 12, 2010, 07:47:01 AM
Just to be able to ask "What if ...?" and have all ideas collected in one place.

For example.

It seems, that a generating node does not need to receive all that transactions at all.
The only data it needs is the previous block hash.
Right?

Next.
It is possible to connect to almost every publicly accessible node, right?
We can collect their addresses and establish connections to almost all of them.
And send them all the data we want.
Like fake (or not so) transactions in huge volumes.
What if it is possible to throttle their generating capability by forcing them to receive and verify
very large amounts of (possibly invalid) transactions (or perhaps another trash)?
Nope, no, and not yet. I've tried that myself, the clients just ignore it all.
Quote
If that is true, then we can lower the difficulty, right?
Nope
Quote
Just do this for a long period of time.
When it lowers to an acceptable for our supercomputer (botnet) value,
we may connect it to the network, but not directly.
Connect it via special node, that does forward messages in a special way, to filter the trash data we are still flooding.
So, the supercomputer will receive the blocks and will participate in generation, the others will be flooded and will get
only a small portion of generated BTCs.
Nope
Quote
Then, if we are not interested in generated BTCs, we may start generating a blockchain fork.
Immediately after the difficulty drops, we start to generate alternative version of blockchain in a isolated environment.
Since difficulty does not change immediately, we can try to outperform the rest of the network, while they are chewing our
trash data. Fast enough we present everybody with the longest chain, but then the difficulty raises back.
By doing this  it is possible to wipe our previous spend transactions, if they are made after the blockchain fork.
So, is it possible that we recover them and get back unspent transactions? And spend them again?
How will previous transactions incorporate into the new blockchain if they were "respent" in that manner?

And then it can be repeated.
If I'm wrong, just say: "you are wrong".
But you may also give me a hint why.
A lot of us have already attempted everything you've listed here. That's why we have a lot of security updates for releases  Wink

About the only thing that will make any of that work is having more CPU power than the entire swarm and the currently difficulty. Reverse time chains, slow DoS, fast DoS, swarm manipulation, wormholes, and time travel have all been tried so far. But if you come up with some unique, we'll be glad to try it.
89  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bugzilla & other bug tracking systems for Bitcoins on: August 11, 2010, 04:10:39 AM
I've always liked the Mantis bug tracker, though it's not a GUI friendly/pretty, mainly just a down and dirty text driven model with colors.  Grin

http://www.mantisbt.org/
90  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Version 0.3.8.1 update for Linux 64-bit on: August 10, 2010, 12:02:25 AM
From what I understand, removing the offending define is required only for 64-bit builds and 64-bit architectures are already guaranteed to support SSE2 instructions. 32-bit builds can retain the flag and thus continue to disable SSE2 instructions and remain compatible with older computers.

Older CPU that don't support SSE2 shouldn't be excluded from coin generation in my opinion. They can still serve a vital role in block generation; I have many machines that don't support the SSE2 enhancements, but still generate blocks all the time, even if they are only churning 300-400 khash/s
91  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Connection limits on: August 09, 2010, 11:58:05 PM
Speed isn't really much of an issue since the p2p is for transactions and block data; not large files. Latency is probably a good goal; have a well connected swarm insures transactions are processed quickly and block data is updated quickly so clients don't lag behind the rest of the network.

Mainly, he doesn't want home routers to get overloaded by the p2p part of bitcoin.

At the same time, those that have bandwidth and CPU to spare can set a high limit (like 1000 or more) that just acts at a super-node for the rest of the nodes to connect through.
92  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 09, 2010, 07:02:12 PM
I found that SSE2 only added a slight speedup, about 2%, which didn't seem worth the incompatibility. 
I do the see point because a non-SSE2 machine, the client would crash?
Quote
It doesn't look to me like Crypto++ could be deciding whether to use SSE2 at runtime.  There's one place where it detects SSE2 for deciding some block count parameter, but the SSE2 stuff is all #ifdef at compile time and I can't see how that would switch at runtime.  Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Should we enable SSE2 in all the makefiles?  It seems like we must in case someone compiles with 64-bit.

I will recompile the 64-bit part of the Linux 0.3.8 release.
Depends on which is easier really. If you enable something that is going to break compatibility, the only people who will feel the pain are the non-technical users of the client. From their perspective, it just doesn't work for some reason.

I think some builds notes would be better, example (If compiling on a 64bit system, be sure to do this part).

Have one branch of source that cross-compiles across multiple operating systems is always tricky business.  Grin
93  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 09, 2010, 01:16:31 AM
Just had a "fun" gdb session with the official 0.3.8 linux 64 bit binary on debian sid.
Same bug, output state on return from SHA256Transform always == initial state.
So... did someone really generate a block running the official 0.3.8 64 bit linux binary (the one in bin/64)?
Oh, and from a quick glance at the svn changelog, that bug probably has been there since r118 = 0.3.6.
Oh, and who THE FUCK thought stripping the official binary was a good idea? I just wasted half an hour hunting down SHA256Transform in a disassembler.


Not on 64bit linux, just 32bit and 64bit everything else in between (Linux/Windows)

I didn't notice until I checked the generation dates against the release dates of the software.

If you don't strip the debug symbols the binary is 8 times it's normal size.
94  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Super node on: August 08, 2010, 10:46:17 PM
Bitcoins is setup so that you get no fee's for any transactions, unless the transaction is less then 0.01BTC which was added to prevent spamming of small transactions. If a super-node is going to cost you more $ in bandwidth then don't run a super-node.

As far as I understand it everyone should hear all transactions eventually but, not instantly. If it was instant everyone would confirm the transactions right away. The transactions all take time a little time to flow through the mesh network. Running a super-node might make that a little faster because you are announcing the transaction to more clients a one time.

As far as I can tell, the supernode is just another node like any other, but has more connections to other nodes (instead of trying to keep around 8 or so). The only thing that offers is redundancy and faster coin spending. It won't speed up confirmations.

In the first case, redundancy; just means all the nodes it's connected to will have at least one node that remains connected all the time. As people open and close their bitcoin client, your client is constantly losing and making new connections to other nodes. Being connected to a super node means it's just one less connection for your client to find if it has less than 8.

Second case; it also works as a shortcut across the swarm if your client and the client that you are sending coin to, happen to share. So if you are 12 node points away from the person you are sending coin to, there will be a little delay before the transaction broadcast goes through. If both are connected to the super node, then it's less metric distance for the transaction to travel. So it might or might not allow faster transaction time, there are many factors to consider for that part (ping, real world distance, etc.)

I think an unconfirmed third point is it helps the network maintain honesty among the nodes in regard to keeping every other node highly connected. Super-nodes are just really clients willing to connect as many nodes that will accept, network together. So it's willing to do a lot of work for the other nodes in a more active role than a passive role.

They certainly aren't necessary for BitCoin to work, but they do provide a benefit and every little bit helps.
95  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need help installing on Redhat on: August 08, 2010, 08:36:55 PM

A build script for a particular distro would probably be safer, patent-wise.  CentOS/RHEL/Fedora do not include the patent-encumbered EC-DSA codes from OpenSSL, and anyone using bitcoin requires that.  Therefore, anyone providing builds is providing patent-encumbered software.

IANAL, but apparently, distributing source code or build scripts puts you in a far better position than distributing ready-to-use binary software.
Remember that Certicom's patent claim pertaining to ECDSA is still just a claim. I haven't seen anything that established them ownership of it since they filed back in 1999 and everything freaked out, but if anyone has an links to some hard court cases, that would be great.

Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it because since then, a lot of the world governments and big business already use this. I don't know how well they would stand in a lawsuit against the entire planet?
96  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 08, 2010, 06:32:27 PM
Did you compile it yourself? There's a define in makefile.unix. Something like -DCRYPTOPP_DISABLE_SSE2. Remove that. Else the SHA256_Transform will return the initstate. I had the same problem when switchting to 0.3.6.
This works for the 64bit builds, strange that it has no affect on the 32bit builds? Should it be disabled for 32bit builds as well?
97  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 08, 2010, 06:27:50 PM
After testing the 32bit and 64bit builds, the problem I can confirm what was already posted here, it just affects the 64bit builds. When I go back and trace what's being produced, it's the 64bit Linux machines (the 64bit windows machines don't appear to have this problem) that aren't producing any coin since the latest releases. All of the 32bit builds (stock or custom) appear to be just fine.
98  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 08, 2010, 06:06:20 PM
This seems to be a different problem. The blocks do not seem to be "stuck" on my systems. The getinfo shows them up to date

It seems the sha256 code is not getting built right for linux 64. Not sure if/how it could work on some and not on others.

There is one behavior that I've noticed.

Block sync stalling.

When the client (be it Windows or Linux) has been running for a few days, *sometimes* they get stuck in block limbo. What happens is your client keeps trying to solve the current block and loses track of the entire block system. So as time goes by, other blocks are solved and your PC is still stuck on the same block.

...

I'm starting to wonder if the two are connected now since the hashing seems to get stuck, maybe that's why it gets stuck on a block.
99  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 08, 2010, 05:56:09 PM
@lachesis: 404 not found

@knightmb: What about a fixed CentOS build?
Should be simple enough for CentOS, I was going to test it out first to see if those suffered the same issue, thought it seems like all the builds would suffer this issue if the compile flag is what makes the difference.
100  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: bitcoin generation broken in 0.3.8? on: August 08, 2010, 05:46:55 PM
Did you compile it yourself? There's a define in makefile.unix. Something like -DCRYPTOPP_DISABLE_SSE2. Remove that. Else the SHA256_Transform will return the initstate. I had the same problem when switchting to 0.3.6.

That seems to be the root of the problem. I think even the bundled binary for Linux 64 in 0.3.8 was compiled wrong then.

I just tested it out, I get the same results. Repeating values with stock, more random values with the flag modification. Probably needs to be fixed for the next release, though I'm not sure how mine are generating anything then?
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