Artwork has intrinsic value because it in itself provides benefit via the sense of sight. Units of capital(shares ) or units of debt (fiat) provide benefit when issuers redeem them. Units of the number 21 million (bitcoins) do not provide benefit themselves nor their issuer Nakamoto redeems them for something to provide benefit. It's simple. It's reality.

So, try to accept reality and live in hope that you will sell your worthless numeric units at good price to the greater fool. But stop with this stories about art because they are ridiculous and dumb.

Art and collectables have intrinsic value because they can be seen and thus satisfy human needs via the sense of sight.

Value is benefit that can be provided by the issuer of an item at redemption of that item or benefit that an item itself can provide when consumed for satisfing human needs.

Blockchain technology neither redeems bitcoins(units of the number 21 million) not it is Jesus to be able to turn numeric units into consumable items.

Yeah, that are the stories I am talking about.

You've all probably heard the stories on Bitcoin's value. Stories that portray Bitcoin not only as valuable, but precious. Stories by which buying bitcoins is one of the smartest things you can do. Well, all of that is just cheap propaganda. A bait to lure you to buy something worthless.

Bitcoins cannot be eaten or drunk. They cannot be seen like artwork or heard like music. They cannot be used to operate computers and execute specific tasks like computer software. They cannot be driven like a car or worn like jewelry. In short, bitcoins have no intrinsic value. When you buy them, you only get a short record, e.g. '5.1234 BTC'.

If someone issued a record and offered it to the public, they must redeem it. The record has to have redemption value. Casino chips, fiat currencies, shares, or gift cards are examples of such records. When you hold them, all you can see is a short string of characters written on a digital, plastic or paper media. There is nothing intrinsically valuable to consume or utilize. That's why their issuers must redeem them for something.

Casinos redeem their chips for cash. Banks redeem their currencies for debt servicing and liens release. Namely, the units of fiat currencies are issued as debt owed to banks - individuals and companies owe it to commercial banks based on loans, while governments owe it to central banks based on bonds. That's why the banks redeem deposits and banknotes for reducing or closing that debt and releasing liens on the property that secures it. Corporations, if they decide to end their business operations, redeem their shares for funds from liquidated assets. Finally, retailers redeem their gift cards for goods or services.

On the other hand, Satoshi Nakamoto, as the issuer of bitcoins, does not redeem them. He issues them through the protocol he wrote, but never redeems from anyone. If you invested electricity to make his system work and got bitcoins for it, Nakamoto won't redeem them even for a dime. Everyone who holds bitcoins knows this. They know that bitcoins have neither redemption nor intrinsic value. They know that bitcoins are worthless. That is why they are forced to get rid of them. Sell them to someone else. And to do this successfully, they need to publicly promote Bitcoin as valuable. They need to compare it to gold, diamonds or artwork. They must say it is the superior version of fiat currencies or money in general. That it can save us from greedy banks. That it is revolutionary like the Internet. That it is scarce. That it solves corruption or financial and economic problems. That it can lift poor countries out of poverty. They need to sugarcoat Bitcoin.

All these stories are of course ridiculous. They would be such even if bitcoins were units of equity, like shares or units of debt, like fiat currencies. But bitcoins are units of the number 21 million. Nakamoto came up with it in his imagination and wrote a protocol for assigning its units to online addresses and storing them in a decentralized database.

Numbers, whether they are stored centrally or decentrally, don't have magical powers. They cannot solve corruption, play the role of artwork or precious metals, lift countries out of poverty, save us from banks, or be scarce. They cannot be money if they are non-redeemable because there's nothing to compare with the value of goods and services. Those who make up or spread such stories know very well they are ridiculous. But they do it out of necessity. They invested huge amounts of redeemable or intrinsically valuable items into the scheme and it is necessary for them to get such items back. On the one hand, they don't want to be the bag holders. On the other hand, they want to profit from the scheme as much as possible. And that is literally all the wisdom behind the stories on Bitcoin's value.

You see how you are constantly obsessed with your stalking agenda and ignore the actual facts presented in OP? Other responders use different approach to ignore them. Your approach is ad hominem.

In the first thread I talked about the difference between real and speculative demand. In the second about a purpose whose fulfilment serves as a pivot to evaluating the worth of money. And here I am talking about the value reference, which in the case of units, is redeemability at the issuer.

Literally no one, in none of the threads, even addressed the facts that Bitcoin lacks real demand, that it lacks pivot for evaluation, and that Satoshi Nakamoto doesn't redeem it. And now you're saying that the responders refuted everything? Hahaha. What a joke you are. Just admitt to yourself that you're a sucker at the bottom of an investment pyramid and get a life instead of stalking people that are telling the truth.

What would happen if it turns out that I really have all those profiles, from fxsurfer to this one? How would that change the fact that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme? That its units are not redeemable by Satoshi Nakamoto and thus, must be dumped on new suckers - investors. Which is the ultimate goal of every holder - to dump their bitcoins. You see now how dumb your stalking agenda and your nonsense about aesthetics is? You're obsessed with forum users and engage in nonsensical ideas because it is hard for you to admit that you are just a sucker at the bottom of an investment pyramid. Hilarious.

You have a stalking agenda on that dude - fxsurfer or whatever, and you came here to accuse me that I am that dude. Basically, you're trolling this thread with your personal fantasies.

As for the arguments. You haven't even address them in my previous thread. All you did is talk nonsense about aesthetics of invisible things.

You don't get it. None of the units - such as the ones written on banknotes, bank deposits, casino chips, or gift cards,... are eatable, drinkable, wearable, etc. But their issuers redeem them. The first two for reducing or settling debt owed to the banks - because banks issue these units as loans and purchases of government bonds. The second ones for cash. And the third ones are redeemable for goods or services. On the other hand, Satoshi Nakamoto doesn't redeem bitcoin units. He issues them via his protocol, but never redeems. That's why everyone needs another sucker, they need new investors to dump the units on them. That's the whole point of this pyramid scheme.

The whole point is that it does require people to invest. If new investors stop buying bitcoin units from current holders - game over. They have nothing. You all know this is true, but you keep denying reality because it is to painful for you to admit that you invested in a pyramid scheme and because you need new buyers to dump them worthless pyramid units. That's why you created the whole religion from a mere protocol that manages units of the number 21 million and a network of computers that stores the units.

Just say it: "we are all here for profit. Our ultimate goal is to dump bitcoins on someone else because we known that Satoshi Nakamoto won't redeem them and because we know we cannot do a damn think with them."
You see? It's simple.

Stop with this nonsense of treating Bitcoin like a person or God.

You are now doubling down on your stalking agenda. No one cares about your theories on forum users. If you have nothing to say about the topic at hand just move on.

You treat Bitcoin as a person or God, and then get insulted when someone criticizes your behavior with regards to it. Let's me repeat. Bitcoin is a network of computers that manage the units of the number 21 million. Nothing related to economy exists in this. The network just simulates bank deposits (which represent debt - an actual economic resource) and in that way attracts users. The whole thing is a digital version of the Monopoly game. The only difference being, of course, that the properties traded for simulated money are real - which makes Bitcoin a pyramid scheme.

So, you're stalking forum users critical of bitcoin and then accuse them of being some banned dude. Hilarious.

That's not value reference. Let's me help you. Suppose that all current participants of the Bitcoin pyramid transfer all their bitcoin units to you. Question: if no new investors buy your units what can you get from Satoshi Nakamoto or from the units themselves? That's value reference. Given that the answer is nothing, all those features that you mention mean nothing. They just serve as bait to attract new investors in the Bitcoin pyramid scheme.

Let's me educate you a bit. Bitcoin is a system of computers and protocols that manage units of the number 21 million. There's no value, or money in this. The whole thing is just a way to record the participation in an investment pyramid and simulate bank deposits. Your propaganda for attracting contributors to this scheme is just cringe and no one falls for it anymore.

Ten years ago, so-called 'cryptocurrencies' appeared on the market. First Bitcoin, then real inflation followed, which today counts over 20,000 of them. But what are cryptocurrencies actually? If we ask their authors, they will say: "digital money". Each of the authors will present their crypto project as modern money in the form of digital coins or tokens that are transferred quickly and stored securely using innovative blockchain technology. Let's mention right away that this technology is nothing special, but a method of storing data in peer-to-peer controlled databases. For example, one buys that digital token and then instead of some centrally organized system, the data about that purchase is managed by a network of computers.

So, according to the authors' stories, as well as the stories of those who believe the authors, cryptocurrencies are modern and advanced money, i.e. the money of the future. But are these stories true? Well, we can say that they perfectly fit the saying "If something seems too good to be true, it is not true."

Let's start with the following question: how do the crypto authors actually create this 'money'? It's simple - they imagine a number and write a protocol for attributing units of that number to online addresses. The units are initially attributed to system maintainers ('cryptocurrency miners'). They send the units to other users registered in the system, who then send them to each other. And that's basically it. So this 'money' is created by arbitrary declarations. The authors come up with some numbers and that is the 'supply' of cryptocurrencies. With Bitcoin, for example, one unit of such created number currently costs $35,000.

Anyone rational would now ask: how can something like that cost so much money? Seriously, by what logic does some invisible and intangible token created by a mere declaration of an anonymous author cost the equivalent of a new car?

Crypto units do not represent shares in ownership of a company for the size of the company's equity to serve as a value reference for market price fluctuations.

Authors of crypto protocols do not redeem these units for a predetermined amount of money, goods or services, like issuers of casino tokens or gift cards do, for this amount to serve as a value reference.

These authors often compare themselves to banks. They say their units are like bank units, but way better. However, that is not true. Banks issue their units as debt - as loans to individuals and companies or as the purchase of government bonds. That is why the units must be returned to the banks. An individual who received 10,000 units from the bank and used them to buy a new car on the market will have to return goods, services or labor equivalent to that car to the market to get the units and return them to the bank. Otherwise, the bank will seize their car, offer it to the market and return the units by itself. Crypto units are not issued as a debt that must be returned to the authors of crypto protocols, so that during that return market receives goods, services, labor or seized property - for this to serve as a value reference.

Finally, crypto units cannot be drunk, eaten, built into products, worn as jewelry, viewed as a picture or movie, or listened to as music. In short, they do not have an intrinsic value that creates a certain amount of benefit through the fulfillment of human needs, for this benefit to serve as a reference for the value of these units.
 
Why then does one unit of bitcoin cost a whopping $35,000? What serves as a value reference? What can a bitcoin buyer get from a bitcoin author or a bitcoin unit itself that is worth in the range of that dollar amount? Well, the answer is, nothing. The value reference does not exist. Rather, the buyer pays $35,000 only because they believe they will sell the unit at a higher price. There are a lot of such buyers globally, so sellers keep putting higher prices. With such purely speculative behavior, prices went from zero to a high of $69,000.

So what the authors of cryptocurrencies create is not money. Money must have a value reference so that market participants can determine how many monetary units are worth accepting as payment for goods and services. What these authors create is a record of membership in self-governing pyramid schemes. Unlike traditional pyramids, these do not have operators who collect and distribute funds. Instead, individuals pay into schemes by giving funds directly to existing members. The protocols then mark or update them as members by changing numbers next to their online addresses. Finally, members await the entry of new contributors. Without them, they cannot get their funds back - which is how all investment pyramids operate.

As we can see, the story of cryptocurrencies is actually the story of an innovative technology for recording participation in good old pyramid schemes. This technology is significant because it kicked out fraudsters like Charles Ponzi or Bernie Madoff from such schemes. Consequently, all profits remain in the pockets of the participants themselves. However, blockchain technology does not manage any digital money. That money is only simulated with protocols, just like paper money is simulated with the game of Monopoly. So the whole story about the money of the future is just an urban myth and a bait for attracting contributors to modern-day pyramid schemes.

Are you serious or joking? Who filled your head with this nonsense? Imagine if you invested a lot of money in Bitcoin pyramid and new investors stop investing. And then you come home to your wife, girlfriend, or mom and start preaching this nonsense about the aesthetics of invisible things. What would she say to you? What would any normal person say? So, are you serious or joking? If you're not joking then I would advise you to seek professional psychological help.

I see you're doubling down on stupidity. Aesthetics is related to senses. You must see, hear, smell, or touch something to be able to talk about aesthetics. Invisible virtual points that some protocol attributed to online addresses have nothing to do with aesthetics. They are just records of participation in an investment pyramid where you pay in purposeful items and then wait for new contributors to get such items back. It's not stupid to join that - it's just greed or ignorance. But claiming that records of participation in it serve aesthetic purpose is the stupidity at its best.

Hahaha. Invisible thing serves an aesthetic purpose. Wow. That's new. I've heard a lot of stupidity from crypto bros but this takes the cake. You people need to seek professional help.

If stuff just exists cuz people like how it looks then that stuff has aesthetic purpose. It creates a specific amount of benefit and one can estimate that benefit with benefits provided by other products to exchange stuff rationally. However, virtual points that some protocol attributed to online addresses have no purpose that can be fulfilled. They are just means to inform you that you joined investment pyramid in which you invest purposeful stuff and then wait for new investors to give you more such stuff. It hilarious how you managed to create the whole religion from that pyramid.

It's not an asset, it's not money because it cannot fullfil a purpose to generate a specific amount of benefit to holders. It's a modern-day investment pyramid where you can get your investment of useful items back only from new investors. Regardless of how nicely you portray Bitcoin to attract new investors that fact won't change.
I don't think that. You don't think that. We both know that virtual points that a protocol assigned to online addresses cannot fullfil a purpose. That's why they have to be dumped on someone else.

Let's me help you because I see you have problems with understanding the basics concepts of reality. Consider this experiment. Suppose you are an extremely rich person and you pay off all the current participants of the Bitcoin pyramid scheme. Or as you people would say, you buy all the bitcoins in circulation.With the current prices that's 692,167,490,070 USD. After that all the Bitcoin trading stops.

Now, if Bitcoin is purposeful that means you would somehow have to use it to help people or yourself, that is, get some kind of benefit from your bitcoins. So, can you do that? You've just spent a tone of money and now you hold all the bitcoins. What can you do with your purchase? Well, you cannot do a damn thing. You just watch number 19,528,325 on the screen and that's it. Your bitcoins are completely useless and purposeless.

But now let's apply our experiment to something purposeful. Food. Suppose you bought food for $692,167,490,070 USD. With such a purchase you could feed a lot of hungry people for a long time. That's what it means for something to have a purpose in reality - it can benefit people. You see how simple it is? What about euros? What if you bought euros for $692,167,490,070 USD? Well, euros are issued as debt owed to the banks. Their purpose is to be returned to the banks. That means that with your purchase you could make a lot of people happy by paying off their loan debt. You could save them from foreclosures upon their property. That's what it means for something to have a purpose in reality - it can benefit people. Purpose is not something that you can come up with in your imagination. No matter what you say about Bitcoin, no matter think about Bitcoin, in reality, Bitcoin is still purposeless, worthless and useless. It always was and it always will be.