That's how fiat money works -- it doesn't matter what the coin is made out of, USD isn't backed by copper. That said, the penny is one coin that actually costs more to make than its face value. It's not made out of zinc because can't afford copper.
Fiat money was not supposed to be backed by precious metals, but then the debasement got so high that they can't even be minted on base metals like nickel and copper. They are manipulating people perception with the copper plating - a process which adds a lot to the minting cost. The US mint could use a zinc alloy, and in EU, they could be using a stainless steel alloy, as is, without any plating whatsoever, but they don't. They want people to think their money is copper  Monetary perception is everything for the value of money. Bitcoiners could learn a thing or two from the banksters. That's just about the craziest thing I've heard today. Most people (other than batshit crazy brokeass goldbugs who can't afford gold) couldn't care less about what pennies are made of. We leave them in 'take it or leave it' penny cups, even panhandlers don't want pennies. Just how paranoid are you, bro, to think that someone wants to deceive you about the value of pennies? |
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...
* Even in the US and EU, our money is not even worth the metal it is printed on. 1c coins are zinc.
That's how fiat money works -- it doesn't matter what the coin is made out of, USD isn't backed by copper. That said, the penny is one coin that actually costs more to make than its face value. It's not made out of zinc because can't afford copper. If you insist on you government wasting resources like Bitcoin does, I'll see what can be done about raising the cost of printing $100 bill to $99, bitcoin-stylee. |
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... Correction, those who didn't sell in 300s/400s are so very very sorry now. Guaranteed to dump if we ever hit 350 again. For sure  everyone that didn't sell is going to pat themselves on the back pretty soon... Yeah, they pretty much gonna have to. No one else will pat them on the back for missing a great exit opportunity. Again. *correction, "except for everyone who sold, while hodlers were dreaming about unattainable highs." |
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>340 after lunch.   >500 is no longer a sell signal
Correction, those who didn't sell in 300s/400s are so very very sorry now. Guaranteed to dump if we ever hit 350 again. For sure |
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this bacon potato talk has got me hungry
... Mmm... seduce me?  |
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Fly me to the moon... Bovine NASA off to a great start;
Fart Gas Flight experiments show promise.
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It has, awhile ago. I initially simply meant to point out that scarcity != artificial scarcity. Trivial stuff, not sure why people raise such a ruckus  It depends. They can be equivalent in some circumstances. The artificial scarcity introduced by copyright allowed companies to charge very high prices for music and movies. Sure. Also allowed Ty Warner to charge more for Beanie Babies, and Bitcoiners to charge more for their 'coins' (much to the same end effect ) What I'm trying to say is scarcity doesn't need to be artificial, so yeah, using != was sloppy and downright wrong. |
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when people start basing their arguments on "all the in the universe" time to hit the bottle
what's next? in all of the universes?
good point. Pig production is limited by the amount of matter in a FINITE universe. I think this argument has gone off the rails. I think it might be better served by using "inelastic supply" rather than "scarcity". It has, awhile ago. I initially simply meant to point out that scarcity != artificial scarcity. Trivial stuff, not sure why people raise such a ruckus |
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all you have to do to increase pig production is ...breed more sows, instead of butchering them.
And those sows will birth 5 sows, and those five will birth 25, 125, etc., etc.
Come on. You can't even imagine a scenario where demand outstrips potential supply? What if aliens demanded we give them a huge and ever increasing number of pigs to feed their exponentially growing space empire? A ridiculously high limit is still a limit. If the demand is high enough, pigs will be bred in penthouse bathtubs, planets will be colonized, made habitable, and turned into pig farms. What I'm trying to say is there's no artificial scarcity, no hard limit of 21 million, as is the case with bitcoin and Beanie Babies.As I said, scarcity, in this case, is simply a product of demand, as in "I can't make more money by breeding more pigs." Only if time is not a limiting factor. If a pig farmer Get's a fill-or-kill order for a million pigs and he has a month to fill it, and he has only two breeding pigs, then it doesn't matter how much the buyer is willing to pay. Actually there IS a hard limit. What has not yet been pointed out in this conversation is that producing more pigs is not free, and as your pig production increases, costs will increase as well, at some point exponentially. And at that point lies your hard limit. Even reductio ad absurdum doesn't help you here. Exponential cost increase can always be matched by exponential cost (price). Care to take this further? Perhaps suggest that the amount of energy/matter in the universe is the hard limit? There is a hard limit on how many pigs you can economically supply to the market, as the price your pork-loving customers are willing to pay is not without bound. If you can't afford to produce them => limit. Not sure how else to say this... (this means you too, MS Paint dog  ) |
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Not that again  No, not everything that gets laughed at [though the internet never was] eventually becomes outrageously popular. Most do not. Bitcoin transactions are growing. Payment processors like Bitpay release stats that show increasing usage. Payment processors like BitPay release stats that they're letting people go because faulty business model (see Fig. 1).  Fig. 1 If you've bought at 3$ you are up 100 times and if you bought at 30$ you are up 10 times.
More like $7-$40 and sold at avg. $6xx, but what does this have to do with bitcoin not being a purely speculative asset and me being ridiculously lucky? |
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all you have to do to increase pig production is ...breed more sows, instead of butchering them.
And those sows will birth 5 sows, and those five will birth 25, 125, etc., etc.
Come on. You can't even imagine a scenario where demand outstrips potential supply? What if aliens demanded we give them a huge and ever increasing number of pigs to feed their exponentially growing space empire? A ridiculously high limit is still a limit. If the demand is high enough, pigs will be bred in penthouse bathtubs, planets will be colonized, made habitable, and turned into pig farms. What I'm trying to say is there's no artificial scarcity, no hard limit of 21 million, as is the case with bitcoin and Beanie Babies.As I said, scarcity, in this case, is simply a product of demand, as in "I can't make more money by breeding more pigs." Only if time is not a limiting factor. If a pig farmer Get's a fill-or-kill order for a million pigs and he has a month to fill it, and he has only two breeding pigs, then it doesn't matter how much the buyer is willing to pay. Please refer to the red, bold text. ty. Actually there IS a hard limit. What has not yet been pointed out in this conversation is that producing more pigs is not free, and as your pig production increases, costs will increase as well, at some point exponentially. And at that point lies your hard limit. Even reductio ad absurdum doesn't help you here. Exponential cost increase can always be matched by exponential cost (price). Care to take this further? Perhaps suggest that the amount of energy/matter in the universe is the hard limit? |
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all you have to do to increase pig production is ...breed more sows, instead of butchering them.
And those sows will birth 5 sows, and those five will birth 25, 125, etc., etc.
Come on. You can't even imagine a scenario where demand outstrips potential supply? What if aliens demanded we give them a huge and ever increasing number of pigs to feed their exponentially growing space empire? A ridiculously high limit is still a limit. If the demand is high enough, pigs will be bred in penthouse bathtubs, planets will be colonized, made habitable, and turned into pig farms. What I'm trying to say is there's no artificial scarcity, no hard limit of 21 million, as is the case with bitcoin and Beanie Babies.As I said, scarcity, in this case, is simply a product of demand, as in "I can't make more money by breeding more pigs." Only if time is not a limiting factor. If a pig farmer Get's a fill-or-kill order for a million pigs and he has a month to fill it, and he has only two breeding pigs, then it doesn't matter how much the buyer is willing to pay. Please refer to the red, bold text. ty. |
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Brazil has real; Russia has ruble; India has rupee; China has yuan; South Africa has Ayn Rand. Are you suggesting those are all USD? |
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all you have to do to increase pig production is ...breed more sows, instead of butchering them.
And those sows will birth 5 sows, and those five will birth 25, 125, etc., etc.
Come on. You can't even imagine a scenario where demand outstrips potential supply? What if aliens demanded we give them a huge and ever increasing number of pigs to feed their exponentially growing space empire? A ridiculously high limit is still a limit. If the demand is high enough, pigs will be bred in penthouse bathtubs, planets will be colonized, made habitable, and turned into pig farms. What I'm trying to say is there's no artificial scarcity, no hard limit of 21 million, as is the case with bitcoin and Beanie Babies. As I said, scarcity, in this case, is simply a product of demand, as in "I can't make more money by breeding more pigs." |
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That binary view holds only if payout is predetermined, not managed/variable (as is the case with fiat currencies/economies). A 'ponzi' like that stays in a state of constant flux, so it's not even clear what's meant by 'collapse.' People get poorer? Die? World implodes?
The BRICs countries get fed up of getting screwed by the fed and create their own currency, for example. They already did. Dollar users unaffected |
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... You're clearly not a pig farmer  'Gestation time' is a meaningless limit, x1000 production is trivial if there's demand for pigs.  In other words, scarcity of certain commodities is simply a function of demand. so, to be precise, there is a limit, it's just very high and not likely to be lower than demand. However say, it's discovered that eating twenty pig eyeballs/day cures heart disease, cancer and gives you a 12 inch penis, then that gestation limit would be relevant. Well no. See, all you have to do to increase pig production is ...breed more sows, instead of butchering them. And those sows will birth 5 sows, and those five will birth 25, 125, etc., etc. |
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... Bitcoin is still "trivial". If this was happening on a large scale, we wouldn't still be at 4bn marketcap.
Ah, so no evidence of this actually happening? Gotcha. |
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There is a limit based on gestation time. Which is why I argue so passionately that we don't need a blocksize limit. We already have the propagation factor. The risk of orphaned blocks puts a natural limit to blockspace scarcity. It will also be necessary to have more xactions/block when the block reward is near zero. More xactions=more xaction fees. Miners need to be compensated or the network becomes less secure. You're clearly not a pig farmer 'Gestation time' is a meaningless limit, x1000 production is trivial if there's demand for pigs. In other words, scarcity of certain commodities is simply a function of demand. |
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If the dollar stays as it is, it seems there is no end to this ponzi. A ponzi never dies, ever, as long as you have a never ending line of people to join and you can print money for free. Ponzi schemes collapse when nobody joins.
Ponzi schemes collapse when FEWER join than is needed to pay existing participants. That binary view holds only if payout is predetermined, not managed/variable (as is the case with fiat currencies/economies). A 'ponzi' like that stays in a state of constant flux, so it's not even clear what's meant by 'collapse.' People get poorer? Die? World implodes? |
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