i agree that we're probably near the upper bound for buy-ins. there's no exact science to it, but my impression is that if we get much closer to 0.002 BTC per game it will discourage participation.

1400 chips/game is enough action for me, but i'm open to a last longer bet or other ways to make it interesting if it's not enough for others.

any other opinions on 6 qualifiers vs 8? like @Steamtyme i prefer 7 or 8 qualifiers. i know @efi prefers 6. can we meet in the middle with 7?

punters continue to favor biden---latest chances to win per betfair:

-trump 40%
-biden 54%

https://odds.watch/trump-2020

neither side is worth betting at the moment IMO. i'll lay some bets on trump if he ever gets to the 3.33-4 range. i'm hoping the dumpster fire continues for a while.

the crowd's gonna go wild when biden announces kamala as his running mate.....


they are, but i don't see them doing any major political damage. trump consistently for years has looked like a buffoon but his rhetoric of deny, deny, deny and attack, attack, attack seems to save him every time. accusations and facts don't matter all that much in a political atmosphere where everything can just be written off as "fake news". bolton is getting his 15 minutes and getting a taste of that sweet sweet book deal money, and liberals are enjoying it a bit too much---that's all i see happening.

you can directly buy into our tournaments with any 1k ticket---although that won't cover the separate league buy-ins sent to @efialtis.

unfortunately, there aren't too many scheduled satellites that pay 1k tickets (mostly 2k-5k tickets) but i do see 2 in the lobby---one starting in ~1 hour and one that runs in 2 days. there are also 3 types of sit-and-go satellites (buy-in 250 chips) that pay out 1k tickets.

i have a feeling that running direct satellites won't be too fruitful.

for an asset to be used as a means of exchange, it needs to achieve widespread acceptance. bitcoin is the currency of the internet---no altcoin has come close to its levels of acceptance and liquidity. years of entrenchment have only further reinforced this dynamic.

bitpay's dominance as a payment processor probably played a role as well. they only began supporting ETH and stablecoins in the past several months.

i don't like to hold altcoins myself. i may trade them from time to time but i treat them like hot potatoes. i tend to spend bitcoin because it's what i actually own.

there is likely a food surplus, in fact. part of the trouble is that supply chains are broken. demand from restaurants has plunged, leading to farmers destroying entire crops and batches of milk. at the same time, since demand has shifted to retail (people cooking at home) with supply lagging behind, you can't always find what you want at the market. while this has improved some, i am still noticing periodic shortages (paper products, eggs, beef, tofu, high quality grains, etc) where i live.

another problem with this dynamic is that donations to food banks often come from inventory surpluses at major grocers. those surpluses are all being bought up by retail consumers now. as a result, there is an emerging food shortage among food banks at the same time that demand for food assistance is doubling or tripling because of high unemployment. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/06/16/coronavirus-food-banks-hunger-serfaty-lead-dnt-vpx.cnn

one survey just showed that 1/4 of california's population is now experiencing food insecurity. that's quite drastic when compared to levels seen in 2008. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/pandemic-food-banks-hunger/613036/

i'm sure the situation is worse globally but a lot of americans will go hungry this year. if the feds stop extending unemployment benefits and if food banks can't sustain themselves, things could get ugly rather quickly.

how does that suggest hyperinflation is coming?

the QE, cash injections, and all that are intended to offset the deflationary effects of the economic shutdowns. central banks are trying as hard as they can to cause inflation, yet most signs still point to very low inflation and possibly net deflation this year.

the differences are somewhat trivial for investors. an ETF would directly invest in BTC or futures. an ETC would issue notes underwritten by a bank which are physically collateralized by BTC or futures. both would probably track the underlying reasonably well (assuming an open issuance/redemption system) and carry similar fees.

as far as wall street goes, lower risk and larger institutions probably want exchange traded securities based in the USA and regulated by the SEC. that's why a swedish ETN or german ETC isn't necessarily a game changer, but it does show the gradually shifting investment atmosphere. and since notes are fully collateralized (unlike an ETN) it should mean adoption of the ETC will have a net bullish effect on price.

thanks.

you sure you don't wanna go for 8 qualifiers though? i don't mind a 2 month series personally. i think some other folks expressed that view too. i kinda prefer a longer series to reduce variance and/or allow for missing a game. i also think SwC might be more likely to keep sponsoring if the championships weren't that frequent. i'll defer to the crowd of course, but 6 games feels a little short to me.

thoughts? maybe meet in the middle with 7 qualifiers? that would mean 8 weeks total for a series. that seems like a good round number.

circle paid $400 million to acquire poloniex but likely sold it for pennies---that's the only scenario that explains it. circle probably priced the deficiency into the sale---they assumed sun's investment group would pay the debt---when in fact the buyers only used the debt as an angle to buy the exchange on the cheap.

absent some big windfall from future trading fees, i don't think they ever had any intention of paying lenders back in full.

thanks, i appreciate your insight.

re the "will you call a jam" question---great point. that's what bothered me so much about this hand. i had sorta implicitly decided when i called on the turn that i would stack off if the river wasn't super wet (9, J, A....maybe spade). yet i reversed on that and decided to fold anyway. afterwards i felt like i was throwing away chips, which is why i brought up the hand.

2-pair is such a bitch sometimes. tough spot, as you said.


yeah i don't play it seriously, just go for a quick double/triple up (in which case it might be close to a $10 buy-in value for the 0.04 BTC freeroll) or bust.


several times i've tried to custom bet and minbet instead, with terrible consequences. i've also timed out trying to bet. it's just horrible UI.


+1, i dunno if they understand that. the software is so horrible that no remotely serious player wants to pay value to play there. they have to pay us with overlays.


sounds like it. fucking poker!

it sounds like we basically have consensus for sundays only. most people seem good with the 1400 chip buy-in too. i'm cool with both.

are we thinking 8 qualifiers then? or less?


in series #2 i actually never cashed until the championship. lots of bubbles for me!


i think we've given up on changing the points structure. if we end up doing the reverse order scheme i think we should weight the top places.


it's a pure gamble yes, which i normally don't like, but i like it because it encourages people to keep playing in the series.

if i've played the first 4 games and have 0 points going into game #5, the lottery + regular prize pools are still a pretty good reason to stay in the series, EV wise.

it depends what their goals are for poker traffic. doing poker right doesn't mean it has to be their main focus.

i dunno what the ideal lobby design is without more insight into the industry, but i can say from experience with other sports betting sites that the poker room is usually more prominently displayed. IMO the most attractive UI is a standalone client with 3 primary sections---one for sports betting, one for table games, and one for poker.

i agree, it would be nice if they mentioned it with fine print on the payment page, or linked to a separate payment troubleshooting page that explains these things. i mentioned something to that effect to support at the time.

like the OP, i was pretty annoyed since i ended up having to wait a half day or so for confirmation, but i took it as a lesson learned---i didn't start throwing around scam accusations.

these words of wisdom from satoshi still apply today:



this would help.

the bold statement suggests you were spending an input with an unconfirmed parent. were you?

if that is the case, i'm not surprised they required confirmation since it makes confirmation unpredictable.

the same thing happened to me when i paid 7 sat/byte but opted into RBF. because i paid with an RBF transaction, bitrefill didn't allow for instant processing. the same rationale apparently applies to transactions with unconfirmed parents.

this is inconvenient compared to their normal process but it certainly isn't a scam.


has the transaction confirmed?

i would absolutely love to see that. i don't think SB can realistically get all the software changes they need from coinpoker. they should really start fresh with a better designed platform. i think SwC is a shining example of what they should be aiming for---intuitive and UI comparable to the major poker sites.

i also think the poker room's position on SB's main page is problematic for traffic. your account has to be on BTC currency to even see it, and when you do see it, it looks almost like just another table game or something. it's just not very visible.


yeah it's part of the same function that makes it so you can't access the prior hand replay once knocked out. when observing tables, you can't see handles or hand replay.


to each his own. i found the mid-late blind structure to be really fast. so many standard levels were being skipped. it felt a lot more like a turbo deep stack tourney than a regular deep stack.

bump! are we still aiming to kick this series off next weekend?

i guess @efialtis can just set up a typical 1000 chip buy-in for sunday since these issues all relate to the "extra" buy-ins and can be sorted out separately. (are we playing sundays only? it still seems undecided but to be safe that should probably be the plan for this weekend)

can we get a simple yay/nay vote on some of this stuff?

-sunday only, or saturday/sunday?

-is everyone okay with 1000+200(championship)+200(lottery) buy-ins?

the lottery structure and total series length can be tweaked later on, but we should sort out the general playing schedule and buy-ins ASAP if we want to play next weekend.

calling all regulars.....

@Betwrong
@arallmuus
@1r0n1c
@Iv4n
@bitmutiny
@Hhampuz
@Steamtyme
@CCwatcher420
@tyKiwanuka
@SyGambler
@Improved
@Trofo
@BitcoinGirlClub
@CoinEraser
@cygan
@webtricks
@morvillz7z
@efialtis
@jayce
@Globb0

there are too many big variables at present, one of which is the economy/coronavirus. with infections, hospitalizations, and deaths on the rise (which will probably spike even more given recent reopenings and protests) i expect new shelter-in-place/social distancing orders in the summer or fall. after all, those decisions are up to state governors (who are much more concerned about public health than trump) and not the federal government. i think the economy and markets might take a shit at the worst possible time for trump, in the heat of election season.

in any case i'm definitely taking the trump bet if he starts getting priced like 2016. we're nowhere near there yet.

the software (coinpoker) is a big issue for me tbh. whoever designed it was not an online poker player. while i am extremely grateful for SB's gifts to the poker community, i do think there is a big list of software problems deterring consistent traffic.

the betting interface is clunky and manually betting takes forever. a few times, i manually typed in bet amounts but when i clicked to raise it only minbet. it may have been technically my fault but the interface is just not intuitive at all. table breaks are glitchy too. sometimes when i get re-seated it sits me out and there is no way to sit back in unless i close and reopen SB completely.

then there is the sounds/alerts. for some reason they felt it was important to yell "fold" at you when you fold, but there is no alert sound (or option to pop-up table) when the action is on you. what a strange design. the crazy fast blind structures aren't my cup of tea either. it's all shove-shove-shove so quickly.

finally, you can't retrieve hand histories---this is a very basic fault that will deter any semi-serious poker player. the best you can do is see the previous hand, and only while you are seated at that table. if you get knocked out, your access is gone.

anyway, i'm not trying to hate, but if SB is serious about pushing into the poker world, they need to consider dropping coinpoker or otherwise pushing them into a serious platform overhaul. it's too bad there is such a lack of network/skin operations in bitcoin poker.

i'll definitely be playing in any big overlay tourneys like yesterday but the software tilts me so much that i take my normal action elsewhere. that's the sad truth.

i tanked for a while and ended up folding, which has been bugging me for a while. he mucked it and in hindsight i really would have liked to know.

i agree that i probably gave him too much credit, and i also wonder if i should have gotten active on the turn. i just had a really tough time figuring out range and odds in the moment. given the weak flop bet, it felt more like a slow played KQ or set that got scared of draws on the turn than AK, but i agree TPTK is in there.

in retrospect, what exact range do you put him on, on the river?


thanks. i can't complain with 12th given the insanely fast blind structure. big stacks bullying like crazy, short stacks winning shoves for tournament lives over and over. it was a very tough game near/after the bubble.

i really hate their software and blind structures. the huge overlay made it worth it, but even if they had more traffic, big freerolls and overlays are all i'm interested in at sportsbet. i really hope they overhaul their poker room.

was sunday a dud for you? otherwise i assume you would have reported back with some good news....

i busted right after you. the guy who was to your left kept raising preflop 3 times in a row. finally i got dealt pocket 77 with 5.5bbs left and shoved into him. he shows up with AA.

i shouldn't complain. i got lucky on that A7 vs QQ hand---that kept me alive from the 1st to 3rd payout ladder. all in all, not a bad day. i busted out in my small buy-ins on SwC but this makes it worth it:



......but that 0.25 BTC for 1st place would have been a lot sweeter.

good luck to those still in it.


SB has a very different crowd of players than most poker rooms. much more live/gambler types. i find it very difficult to isolate players preflop. also lots of huge preflop shoves. not my favorite type of field---very high variance.

thanks to SB for putting this on! time to crack a beer and call it a day.