Thank you for this insight. How do you evaluate John's comment? Is anything that he wrote helpful for you to gain more trust in me, in case I would comply with the ideas.

As you are a long-term forum member yourself, perhaps you could indeed do me a favor and link something that has been discussed before.

This thread is about trust in general. Of course I have a plan to increase "my" trust. I can do it by writing more posts with value and insight. I can seek to buy/sell/loan BTC in micro amounts and gain some ratings. But I find this method too expensive. I am working in several companies and one of them pays me by the hour, I get €37 net. I have to understand that my time has a cost.

If I choose not to write on this forum, I can work and gain BTC1 (approximately). This bitcoin in a few years' time will be worth much more. My "total time logged in" is currently 58 hours. This is about BTC56, almost $3000! Seldom I get an appreciative comment of my posts. I don't know if I am bringing value to the community equal to the investment. As a businessman, you should aim to make something that is more valuable than the cost of producing it 

So I figured out that I would rather give out money and sell some goods/services below the most economical price point for me. I have been tipping rather generously all good services that I have seen. Then I was checking that the European gold and silver for bitcoin dealers had rather steep markups. I had not had plans to enter that area which I saw quite niche. Well, due to the runup in bitcoin value, there probably should be buyers for metals that are cheaper than anyone else's, so I posted some threads. So far, no business. I put some silver coins up for auction. No bids (yet - I admit it's been there for 12 hours and people sleep at night), even if the minimum price is lower than the melt value of it. My plan of gaining trust by giving out standard goods for cheap is clearly failing. Not only I can not buy trust with money, I seem to lose it 

In my opinion, this is a flaw in the community design, that we must amend. I am a Christian. When I accepted the Lord, then the rules of the game are that Lord is, I am not. I mean, there is no room for your own will. It is really like going through the eye of a needle, and the process is going on and only few will become perfect in this age. But now we are talking about Bitcoin. It is detrimental to the whole system if you need religion-like devotion and spend all your time increasing your postcount. For a mass adoption (such as Facebook) bor bitcoin, the existing social networks need to be made available. I am watching Ripple with interest, but their XRP distribution model I don't like. However it seems to me that their design is trying to address this issue.

For long I have been thinking, as a simple millionaire (not multimillionaire - I mean), why Bitcoin is still, 4+ years after inception, dominated by people with brilliant technical insight, but there is a sore underrepresentation of established businessmen, who would develop non-hack, non-scam services for the community. You know, the old stuff of having good purchasing department, good logistics, reliable procedures, claim management, ability to make good on promises, etc. I think I have found the answer.

I strongly suspect that most bitcoinworld hacks are inside jobs. Somebody has calculated how many hours he must invest in order to gain trust in the community, despite being an untrustworthy member of the society. Then he develops some service and runs with the coins at the right moment, claiming that it was a hack. Happened too many times to be a coincidence. A scammer has enough time to build his "trust" like this, because the payoff is great. An honest businessman that tries to sell his product at a competitive price, and who has reserved some margin for risk and claims management, cannot do it. The investment is not paying off.

Sirius showed his new project when he gave the keynote speech in our club last month:
http://www.rvl.io/mmalmi/identifi
 
I have been hesitant to collection of private data, but could that be a solution for someone whose intent is to help and not defraud, and who therefore has no time nor incentive to gain the "trust" that is currently needed as a licence to steal?

Risto Pietilä
SSN: 020980-109P
Mobile: +358503235950

Well, considering that we are in the "Speculation" subforum, is this not how it's supposed to be? 

We were nearing ATH when the blockchain bug was found, and the resulting selloff (technically, in TA) means, that we failed to confirm the recent high. This often gives the market a dampener and makes it unable to overcome the high for an extended period of time.

As for the manipulation of the markets by big players, oh, I have been around in gold, silver, and currencies for too long, in order not to know how the things are managed. And I think it's fine.

Was there any reason they gave, when saying it is illegal for them to deliver in the Czech Republic?

If they offered to sell the gold, but found out that it is inconvenient, and decided to reimburse you the USD amount, I think they are doing what is legal, but hardly what is right. Good business practice is to think a little bit beforehand, and if you are clearly at fault due to your own negligence, to reimburse the customer promptly and properly.

+1.

Hello community,

I am sure this matter has been discussed before, so hopefully you can forward me to some good threads.

The matter is trust. I have for a few months been moderately active in the forum, and Bitcoin itself I know ever since 2010.

I have been doing full-time business for 12 years. My investing experience is 16 years. I have established about 5 companies, been advisor to more, organized tens(!) of financing rounds, and still own, chair and/or run multiple businesses in two countries. Their combined sales are in the range of millions. I am married for 10 years, I have a daughter. One of the companies I lead, has more than 60 shareholders. I have enriched them by selling them silver when it was cheap. They hold several tons(!) of silver in the company's dedicated vault. They have thousands of bitcoins, too. I also have some bitcoins.

I am not old, I'm 32. But I am adult. And I have a hard time with some of the "rules" in this community. Everybody is paranoid as hell. I understand that bitcoinworld is full of scams, but I have a hard time accepting that. Anyone who has been with bitcoin as long as I is sitting on good gains from the value appreciation alone. In the world outside of bitcoin, scamming is not really the modus operandi. I have encountered scammers in my career, yes. One sold me silver-plated trinkets worth € 25,000 with forged documents and an elaborate cover story why they were solid silver. I was relaxed by the appearance of this 60-year old gentleman with his 25-yo son and their family company. Another time I was defrauded of 300 grams of gold. I paid first to a long-time customer. He never sent the product and vanished. Luckily I paid only 50% upfront. Then another one bought 20,000 oz of silver and did not pay. I had quite a diplomacy in canceling the binding order that I had placed with my supplier. That one cost me thousands, and I won in restitution court. The customer paid me most of my damages. One year later he apologized. This may sound like much, but compared to the total volume of business, we are talking about minor setbacks.   

It defies my imagination in general, why somebody with enough money would turn to scamming. It must be that bitcoin for some reason is a honeypot that attracts people, who already are scammers, to participate. This concentration of scammers and scam-businesses is unheard of, anywhere in the outside world.

It is well-intended that newcomers should be rigorously scanned if they can be accepted to the web-of-trust. But I tell you something: most newcomers don't have the time and/or dedication for that. They come from already-established networks, and there needs to be a way to incorporate this already existing trust to the community.

I mean, of course I can start to use escrow in my dealing with forum people. It is not a big deal really. I do pay taxes, and that is far more expensive and difficult.. But if you really require that (instead of you sending first because I am an established, incorporated business and don't have the luxury of anonymity), I cannot count being part of the community an asset, rather a liability because it worsens my terms of doing business. I hope that there could be a solution. Otherwise I will consider that this is a risk vector to the whole Bitcoin: established people don't want to join because the community is full of scammers, people that are paranoid of scammers, and kids screaming to multimilliondollar businesses that they should use escrow when dealing with them. Phew. I am in first-name terms with the largest bullion dealer in the U.S. and there was a month in 2011 when I was their largest customer in the best-selling product. I can lock-in $500,000 with one phone call of 1 minute and get 7 days to pay. Beat that.

This coin thing is a good one, because the world needs more privacy. How can the community accommodate established people? Or do you turn us down, so that there needs to be another coin for people in good standing?

I am currently writing the OP for a new thread concerning this matter. OK, whatever. Let's use escrow then. Please post the details here so that I can review and accept them. I really really want to serve this community and give away this silver below cost, that is my honest intention and therefore I submit. The silver is not even the only thing I want to build here...

And rules clarification: shipping in EU ONLY, and that is included. I see that other companies that (I hope from the bottom of my heart) try to be trustworthy, are being suspected of scamming due to shipping problems. I can't take the risk.

I am sorry I did not realize that even though I expressly stated that delivery is only in EU, which is practically 1 timezone, the bidders may still be on vacation eg. in Thailand!! I carefully selected the most possible time for everyone to check the status of their bid, ie. at about 9pm.

Okay I can give 24 hours. I will update the OP accordingly.

You are right my post count is rather low. The reason is that I do work, and I only try to write posts with value and insight. I find it rather funny that solely by signing up on this forum, my credibility is reduced to so low that the established PM dealership that I 100% own with my wife, needs to start using escrow which has never before been required or even suggested, in the years of operation and several million euro of sales. I only follow what the more wise have set before me: cash first, metal second. It will be a momentous occasion if BTC users can reverse this age-old pecking order. The more practical reason is that I need the cash to replenish my stock. Otherwise I would be compromised if the market rates change.

So, no escrow. Sorry. PM me if you think you have found an escrow solution for this kind of business that takes into account the situation of a professional dealer. Please tell me what kind of escrow do the other businesses use and how they have tackled the problem of inventory replenishment.

Below is the email I sent to Coinabul:

-----
8.3.2013 8.57 to: contact@coinabul.com subject: "Urgent: you are being bashed in Bitcointalk Scam Accusations"
-----
"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149253.0

Take this as a friendly reminder from a colleague. This should be settled quickly. I don't know what you're thinking in not reshipping the silver in question (oh yes I know, the customer is an ass and that pisses you off) but as the matter is now highly public, a full restitution seems for me the right thing to do considering the future of your business, REGARDLESS of what actually happened.

I have proposed that they give you until March 18. to respond but sooner the better.

Best regards,

Risto Pietilä

Owner & Operator of the following PM dealerships/markets since 2006,
Hopea.fi
Eesti Investeerimishobe OU
Silverbank(.net)

"

Thank you for showing up in my thread 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=151800.0

For everyone in EU, 1oz of silver can still be secured for as low as BTC.600 INCL.SHIPPING, ends in 24 hours.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152397.0

This is the thread I was talking about, and following with sadness:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149253.160

Hi, thank you for interest. This deal does NOT include escrow. The seller is a dedicated Precious Metals Dealer Corporation since 2009 with millions of Euro in sales. Bitcoins first, metal second. That is the way it happens in the real world.

I see in the "Coinabul deserves a scammer tag" thread that for some reason the bitcoin community is full of scammers. I have only participated in this forum for a few months and I am perplexed by this fact. I think it is the greatest single danger to the future of Bitcoin. I also proposed that people cool down and give Coinabul 14 days for reply. However they did not reply my email, and actually they should have, considering that I want to help them make good of the situation, and I have more than 7 years of full time experience in this field.

What do you mean by "make it 24h"?

Mine does not upgrade automatically  That is why it still seems you cannot buy from me to sell at your price and make a profit even if, in actuality, you can 

Especially by taking part of this auction:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152397.0

Early bird special gives you BTC2.3 credit towards the winning bid! Others need to bid up to that much more just to match you!

Please, for pete's sake what is wrong with you??

I am selling silver delivery included for at least 20% cheaper than you can find anywhere in the EU considering any payment methods etc.

Care to elaborate how I can buy this amount of coins from you for cheaper?! I will gladly do it if you mean business! It is below spot and I can directly throw them to smelter and realize a profit from such a deal, or use them in this thread.

We have failed the ATH on massive volume. There has been massive pump on bitcoin and the selloff will take us down.

I am not part of the team, but I appreciate what they are doing. Bitcoin is already immensely valuable and the price needs to be kept in check to prevent disruptions in global economy. I expect $300 by the years end and a subsequent crash to $120. This correction will take us to $30-$35 because there will always be a buyer for every seller.

You understand, when you bid for an auction that ends in 24 hours, your bid is in excess of € 1000, and the ending is a certain time that you know previously and accept when you bid, between 9p.m.-10p.m. Wednesday evening to be precise, it is entirely reasonable that you can remember to check if you have the winning bid, and make good of your promise to pay.

What exactly qualifies for a scammer tag in your humble opinion?

Conditional bid of BTC1.5.

Condition is that I may use the service any time I choose but no later than May, 2013.

We only ship to EU. EU is a common market, it means that there are no customs, taxes or duties when we ship from inside EU to inside EU.

As a rule, the shipments are insured. We will work out the shipment details per customer. The customer pays for shipping (which is not included in the price) and has several options to choose from. It is also possible to take delivery in person. We have offices in downtown Tallinn and our friendly staff can accommodate your request 9-17 on weekdays.

You all have the chance to buy Canada Silver Maple Leafs for as little as BTC.600 INCLUDING SHIPPING, this is NO JOKE but a ONE-TIME

INAUGURATION SPECIAL:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152397.0

Hi all. Eesti Investeerimishobe OU ("Estonian Investment Silver Corp."), incorporated in Tallinn, Estonia 2009, seeks to offer European bitcoin users an unparalleled experience when shopping for precious metals. By this we mean that you can buy cheaper than from others and also less hassle. We respect all fine businesses out there, but intend to be the cheapest in Europe.

Starting special: auctioning away 50 x Silver Canada Maple Leaf 1 oz Coins in Mint Tubes.


Terms:
1. The auction runs 24 hours from the timestamp of this post OR 10 minutes after the highest bid has been posted, whichever is later.

2. The winning bid must pay in 1 hour from my announcement that he has the winning bid. If this does not happen, the bid is forfeited and a scammer tag would be appropriate. Bid only if you have the intention and the means to pay. Our Bitcoin address is:
15dYsxEh5bNnFXE26au5jjTHk8BcrozuZy

3. Insured shipping in EU is included in the price. You must provide a valid name and address for us to deliver. We kindly ask you to allow up to 2 weeks for shipping. We notify you once we have shipped and give the tracking number.

4. Bids for the whole lot ONLY. The minimum bid is BTC30. The new bid must raise the previous one by at least BTC.1

5. Finally, the special. There is an invisible hand that helps you in bidding. Per every hour that there is left until the deadline when you post your bid, you can credit BTC.1 towards the bid. Example: If you read this right after my post and decide to bid the minimum, your bid will be counted as BTC32.4 towards winning, but you only need to pay BTC30 if you win, and that INCLUDES shipping.

6. I reserve the right to make clarifications to the terms and conditions upon need or request.

7. The bids are placed in BTC only and the fiat currency exchange rate does not matter squat. Even if BTC goes to zero we must deliver. If it goes to $10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 you must pay.

Happy bidding! 

Me want 2!

Man, I am here to help you. Is it not good that you can now buy Maple Leafs for as low as BTC.77025?!?

Bitcoin volatility is killing me however. Before I go to sleep, I need to fix the thing somehow. Perhaps implement an automatic pricing like the other fine businesses in the industry.