Well this is not how I expected things to happen and I am pretty disappointed honestly. I guess I have to give credit to Nefario, his questionable actions did seem to workout for him on this.
My question would be is why are you making a new exchange? My interest in it was to get away from off the wall random regulation that hurts business. Giving into GLBSE demands by giving up part of your exchange makes me think that Hermes will be no different and maybe even more extreme if lawyers are getting involved.
Just a worried investor and a supported of unregulated markets. Hermes has many unique ideas, and different target audiences than GLBSE (though there's also a lot of overlap). More than anything, having both parties agree to an equity swap proves that there are niches being filled independently by the two exchanges. GLBSE's getting their way, and it is indeed my fault for being too loose-lipped. But, that's not to say Icehill is necessarily losing in this agreement, either. Nefario brings his own unique expertise to the table, and a more polite relationship has been established between Icehill & GLBSE (at least, more polite than would've been if we were talking to Nef & team with a straight face while secretly developing, then suddenly launching a partially-competing listing platform). As originally planned, Hermes wouldn't be launched for 2+ months. As looks like will be the case now, Hermes won't be launched for 2+ months, so not much change there. BDK funds which were originally slated to go toward Hermes will likely now go toward Kronos so we can still launch within a few weeks. This is probably a better investment anyway, since Hermes was a longer-term commitment with a relatively large chunk of change. As well, since an amicable resolution seems imminent, I believe BDK will have its June offering as originally scheduled. All-in-all, very little has effectively changed from what was originally planned, the drama's nearly finished, and we can soon continue forward implementing innovative ideas. too many projects to follow |
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I imagine all bitcoin users as women.
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May 2012 dividend returns has been posted. April data has been moved to the history. See OP for details.
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Yeah nice stop paying so when something bad happens to you you will be fucked. Or maybe you will do like that father who went in a hospital with a pistol to have help for his son who required medical assistance (but since they were poor and could not pay the insurance, no help for you, you poor, you die)
/facepalm
Get disability and life insurance. Save for your retirement. Problem solved and no need for the Social Security Program. You are absolutely right. But you left out the essential part: " If you have opted out of social security and you are starving in the street, then die in the gutter and stop bothering the rest of us." Also, the private pension system is way more expensive to run than social security. Good luck persuading people to vote for either of these ideas. When SS first started it was just a fixed life annuity. When the US government started to add disability coverage and survivorship to children coverage, that is when the time to insolvency started to emerge. People have to purchase private insurance for life and disability anyway. They also have to save for retirement. There is absolutely no financial advisor that would tell people to not purchase private insurance or to save for retirement and to only rely on Social Security. Since people have to go to the private insurance market and save for retirement themselves anyway, then what is the purpose of SS? It is just an extra thing in case the person never planned, didn't planned enough, or their plans failed. If that is the case, then SS should not be paid to those with a certain high income level and instead should be given to low income retirees, disabled persons, or survivors of a deceased parent or spouse. |
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I am not tech savyy enough for the OTC page,
and I mostly like to come here and read post, don't post too often, so how do I create reputation?
Just find something you can do for the community that you are interested in, then do it. |
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...If retirement age is raised to 68 from 65, the system will pay 100% of expected benefits forever.
Do the math on that; 30 years life with no need to work in return for 3 extra years work. Isn't that a good deal?
For those born after 1959 the " normal retirement age" is 67 years old. It probably should be raised to 70. People can start collecting at 62 but their benefit would be reduced. The problem with SS, is that when it first started it did a good job to help older people get out of poverty. As living expenses and people's expectations of what makes normal living has increased, the social security benefit becomes paltry. The average social security benefit in 2012 is $1,230. 66% of Americans do not save enough for retirement. This means that 25% reduction in the expected social security benefit will be very bad for the future elderly. So what can we do? I agree that getting rid of the Social Security program would just have people take their extra money and spend it on more things they don't need. They won't buy disability insurance, they won't buy long term care insurance for their parents, and they won't save for retirement. Often, people are told to do more for other people, but I say first people need to take responsibility for themselves. If people went to a financial advisor and they did not have life or disability insurance, then most financial advisors would require their clients buy this insurance. If the client refused, then the financial advisor would refuse to serve the client. Our government could do the same thing. |
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Yeah nice stop paying so when something bad happens to you you will be fucked. Or maybe you will do like that father who went in a hospital with a pistol to have help for his son who required medical assistance (but since they were poor and could not pay the insurance, no help for you, you poor, you die)
/facepalm
Get disability and life insurance. Save for your retirement. Problem solved and no need for the Social Security Program. |
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Shouldn't the title be TYGRR.BOND-B and not TYGRR.BOND-A?
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With all this recent talk about Bitcoinica, I couldn't help but do some research on prior Bitcoin large thefts (as of now, defined as over one thousand bitcoin), all during the period I was myself involved with Bitcoin but did not know about (March 2011 was the month I first learned about Bitcoin). Before that time, I assume the thefts were not well-publicized or were minor in nature. I have provided dates and UTC times as I know them, and to be as accurate as possible. For disputed thefts, I applied best judgement and included the ones that were most publicly accepted.
Because of the volitile nature of Bitcoin's exchange price, I have denominated heist estimates in BTC. Although not heists per se, major permanent bitcoin losses are also included here in italics. If I missed any major thefts, heists, or losses, or if you have any other information to contribute to one of these events, please leave a reply in this thread.
Note: To qualify, a major heist, theft, hack, scam, or loss must cause damage greater than or equal to 1000 BTC. Borderline thefts may qualify if reasonable estimates are over or equal to 1000 BTC.
List of events by severity (BTC)
Listed by the name found later. Use Ctrl-F for more information.
1. July 2011 MyBitcoin.com Theft (78739.58205388 BTC)
2. March 2012 Linode Hacks (46653.47830495 BTC)
3. June 2011 Allinvain Theft (25000.01000000 BTC)
4. April 2012 Silk Road Scam (20000 BTC)
5. May 2012 Bitcoinica Hack (18547.66867623 BTC)
6. August 2011 Bitomat.pl Loss (17000 BTC)
7. October 2011 Bitcoin7 Hack (15000 BTC)
8. June 2011 Stefan Thomas Loss (7000 BTC)
9. February 2012 Bitcoinica Theft (5000 BTC)
10. September 2011 Moonco.in Hack (4000 BTC)
11. June 2011 Mt. Gox Hack & Theft (2643.27 BTC)
12. October 2011 Mt. Gox Loss (2609.36304319 BTC)
13. 2011 Ubitex Scam (1138.98 BTC)
14. 2012 Bitscalper Scam (1000 BTC)
You forgot that one where that one guy scammed his business partner out of 300,000 bitcoins for $5000. Maybe it was 100,000 bitcoins, I forget now and can't find the post. I was debating whether to add that one (it was knightmb's "purchase" of 300000 BTC). However, the business partner did receive what he was looking for, which was $5000. I remember his name was knight something... One bitcoin.org forum member was able to acquire over 300,000 bitcoins from one of his former employers who thought bitcoins had no value. Those bitcoins were sold for $5,000 when they were actually worth over $2 million dollars! knightmb's business partner was an idiot, but since the business partner was relying on knightmb expertise on bitcoins I consider what he did fraud. It would be like a bank being stupid enough to give the only keys to the vault to their security guard and the guard stealing all the cash inside. Who here would do business with knightmb after knowing what he did to his business partner? From other forums it seems to be a personality trait of knightmb. |
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List of companies with an adequate backup system in place. This is reassuring. Thanks, Stoch! We'll soon find out which agents have their client's best interest at heart, and which agents... ~Bruno~ I would like to see these services doing security audits by professionals and getting some hacking insurance. |
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We've run into similar issues regarding the Chinese being restricted in spending their currency outside their borders (for an entirely different business opportunity). After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that you need to get a domestic exchange going in China and people like yourself need to start using Bitcoin to buy things from the Chinese (so they can obtain more Bitcoin to use on their local exchanges). Since Chinese currency isn't very usable outside China, it's unlikely that many people outside China will offer to sell Bitcoins in exchange for Yuan (but maybe speculators will). So, you need domestic sellers of Bitcoin and for their to be sellers, they need to have Bitcoins to sell.
You don't need to worry about having local btc sellers. People looking for arbitrage opportunities will do the job of moving bitcoins in or out of China as necessary. And precisely what would such arbitrageurs outside of China do with the Yuan they purchase with their bitcoins? Normally, the arbitrageur would need to wire/convert the Yuan back into USD and then buy back more bitcoins than they originally sold. But China has strict controls on such transfers and exchange. The problems that people in China have with spending their Yuan outside China are exactly the same problems that will impede such arbitrage. Hence the need to create a domestic exchange of bitcoins for Yuan. I think there would also be benefits in such an exchange to currency traders that might want trade Yuan against other currencies. They could sell dollars for bitcoins, send the bitcoins to the Chinese bitcoin exchange, and sell the bitcoins for Yuan to hold in their account. Then reverse that trade as they see fit. Given there there are such strict controls on trading Yuan for other currencies on the free market, I bet you could make a fortune doing it if you could do it in large enough quantities…you buy Yuan after interventions force the exchange rate back in line with the USD, then sell as it rises and in advance of another intervention. Your 100% right. We touched on this at the Summit. Chinese have tight controls over their Renminbi currency. Strange, I "transferred" 10,000 USD equivalent RMB from my Bank of China account in China to the one in America. I don't think I really transfered it as it was the same account number and bank. |
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With all this recent talk about Bitcoinica, I couldn't help but do some research on prior Bitcoin large thefts (as of now, defined as over one thousand bitcoin), all during the period I was myself involved with Bitcoin but did not know about (March 2011 was the month I first learned about Bitcoin). Before that time, I assume the thefts were not well-publicized or were minor in nature. I have provided dates and UTC times as I know them, and to be as accurate as possible. For disputed thefts, I applied best judgement and included the ones that were most publicly accepted.
Because of the volitile nature of Bitcoin's exchange price, I have denominated heist estimates in BTC. Although not heists per se, major permanent bitcoin losses are also included here in italics. If I missed any major thefts, heists, or losses, or if you have any other information to contribute to one of these events, please leave a reply in this thread.
Note: To qualify, a major heist, theft, hack, scam, or loss must cause damage greater than or equal to 1000 BTC. Borderline thefts may qualify if reasonable estimates are over or equal to 1000 BTC.
List of events by severity (BTC)
Listed by the name found later. Use Ctrl-F for more information.
1. July 2011 MyBitcoin.com Theft (78739.58205388 BTC)
2. March 2012 Linode Hacks (46653.47830495 BTC)
3. June 2011 Allinvain Theft (25000.01000000 BTC)
4. April 2012 Silk Road Scam (20000 BTC)
5. May 2012 Bitcoinica Hack (18547.66867623 BTC)
6. August 2011 Bitomat.pl Loss (17000 BTC)
7. October 2011 Bitcoin7 Hack (15000 BTC)
8. June 2011 Stefan Thomas Loss (7000 BTC)
9. February 2012 Bitcoinica Theft (5000 BTC)
10. September 2011 Moonco.in Hack (4000 BTC)
11. June 2011 Mt. Gox Hack & Theft (2643.27 BTC)
12. October 2011 Mt. Gox Loss (2609.36304319 BTC)
13. 2011 Ubitex Scam (1138.98 BTC)
14. 2012 Bitscalper Scam (1000 BTC)
You forgot that one where that one guy scammed his business partner out of 300,000 bitcoins for $5000. Maybe it was 100,000 bitcoins, I forget now and can't find the post. |
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List of companies with an adequate backup system in place. This is reassuring. |
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...pirate isn't going to default anytime soon.
Trollface.jpg
I'm a contrarian. |
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and get paid $5-$10 for a job well done. Others could donate to this site, somehow invest in it and filter out bad submissions. The payout could be a function of the number of submissions and there would be extra rewards for more productive contributors...
You should lower the payout. At $5 to $10 a job you are paying graduate student wages. Of course if you marketed it as a way for graduate students to procrastinate then they could double their paychecks.  |
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Dividends paid between 2012-05-19 to 2012-05-25 has been updated.
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It sounds like there were too many people in charge at Bitcoinica. Zhou kinda operated it, there was some main owner, and now some Bitcoin Consultancy general partners. I am always against forming partnerships for this reason. It is like getting married. Instead of giving part of the company to someone, just give part of the profits.
Make one person in charge and then delegate other responsibilities to everyone else. Don't let everyone in the company make public statements about the company.
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Honestly I do not have a policy right now and I am very shocked by the demand. *ponders situation from afar* I have no interest either way (meaning, no money involved) however I would like to point out that a problem like this should never, ever happen. I don't know how or why this happened, but if I saw a security listed on the GLBSE with no contract, I would never look at it again. If you have a security listed on the GLBSE and it's trading and you change the contract, in the real world that is a form of fraud. Now, yes, this is bitcoin, but if bitcoin ever gets big, this kind of thing will not go unpunished. Please, people. Search your hearts and fix this the way it would be fixed in the real world, and set an example. I hate to see stuff like this ruining the credibility of bitcoin. P.S. please try to understand my position as a member of the 99.9% of people who see this and have no idea what is going on. If you look through the too many pages in this thread you will see TYGRR-BANK was once just listed as a test asset on GLBSE before the 8 BTC fee was imposed. I too would like a beter contract. If anyone has a problem with the contract changing within a 4 week period then purchase some insurance, or if you think the contract will change or not pay its bond payment then short TYGRR-BANK. |
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well... since neither zhou or anyone in intersango are owners maybe THE OWNER is telling them all to shut up... if that is the case we should out him sooner or later... (HINT HINT)
Release the owner's name then. |
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