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8521  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What to do with lost bitcoins on: December 09, 2016, 06:32:03 AM
We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, 10 years (or 50 years if 10 years is too little) after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

To avoid asking and answering the same things all over again, I add below important clarification:

First, there is no way to technically distinguish between lost coins and purposefully unmoved coins.
They both are the same and it is not reasonable to make people move their coins every so often in
order to prove that they still have control. If in the event, a protocol change is proposed that users
will need to transfer their coins to "safer addresses" that is done as a security measure, not just so
that the devs/miners know "we can't take them back" from them

What about adding some parameter which would basically say that the coins from this wallet shouldn't be moved under any circumstances with default being set to donating them after some period. That might work very much like organ donation, and the way voluntary consent is obtained (opt-in vs opt-out). In this case, both options can be used, i.e. in the case of an opt-out the coins of anyone who has not explicitly refused to donate them will be moved after the expiration of the timeout, or that timeout period could be set by default to infinity effectively meaning that the coins should never be moved. That would be the opt-in option, i.e. only the coins of those who have given explicit consent will be donated...

Also, instead of donating coins, they might be marked as just not yet mined

This mindset contradicts one of the reasons why Satoshi created Bitcoin in the first place.
Your money is your money and in theory, no one can take it away under any circumstances.
Comparing what regulated banks are allowed to do should not be applied to Bitcoin ever.

Shrouds have no pockets

So you suggest that the lost bitcoins should be declared as public property?

And what should we do with them after they become public property?

Donate them for charity?
8522  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you play Dice with Autobet? on: December 08, 2016, 01:08:54 PM
Do you play dice manually, using autobet or third party bot?
If you play using built in autobet what features options you consider most important?

I think that with autobetting you always loose on the long run.

Playing manually is the best option,but it gets boring sometimes.
8523  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Isn't it time for a new service in place of Coinbase/Circle in another country? on: December 08, 2016, 01:06:38 PM
With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

US regulations really damage bitcoin and the bitcoin community.

Which country do you suggest?

Perhaps some offshore island... Grin
8524  Economy / Economics / Re: How stable will bitcoin be? on: December 08, 2016, 06:56:20 AM
So, supposing bitcoin, or some variant, manages to completely replace the world's currencies.  This will certainly make some governments unstable, some might well collapse - see http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/19983.aspx

But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government.

So... bitcoin substitutes currency, government is destabilized, society descends (or ascends?) into anarcy, electricity & internet become unstable, society descends into the next dark age.  Has anyone thought about that?


There`s no way for bitcoin to replace all the fiat currencies.

Bitcoin is just an alternative.

By the way,we can print bitcoins and use them as paper money,so you don`t need electrcity and internet.
8525  Economy / Economics / Re: Global Conflagration on: December 08, 2016, 06:53:17 AM
The world seems to be getting more and more in disorder. The order, which existed since the end of the Second World War and the end of the Cold War, seems to disappear more and more after the financial crisis 2008.

Examples of this are the exploding world-wide debts, the decline in globalization and world trade, and increasing compartmentalization (Brexit, China, Trump). Also the rise of extreme parties, like in many European countries, Philipines, Turkey, presumably USA (Trump).

Growing economic and monetary policy problems such as in Venezuela, Brazil, China, India, some African countries, Eurozone ..., plus the upcoming automation and digitalization which will very likely costs million of jobs. It seems that the development just started.

What do you think, what are the consequences of these developments and what will the world look like in 10 years from now?

The world is moving forward to world war III ,that`s for sure.

A world war might be the end of bitcoin,or might be a new beggining.
8526  Economy / Economics / Re: Empirical/mathematical method to choose which cryptocurrency community to join on: December 08, 2016, 06:50:09 AM
An empirical/mathematical method to choose which cryptocurrency community to support


NOTE: CROSS POSTED FROM ALT-COIN SECTION: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=572085.0


I've been fascinated by the rise and fall of various cryptocurrencies, and this fascination has lead me to study what it is that gives a coin legitimacy and lasting value.  I've concluded that the value of a cryptocurrency is stored in its blockchain ledger by the shared agreement within the community that the ledger is legitimate--"money is memory" in other words.  I've concluded that the value of this ledger grows with the coin's user base and economy.  

While working on methods to quantify this, I've found some startling relationships.  Since bitcoin has the longest history, we can learn a lot from the data we already have.  The value V of bitcoin's ledger appears to follow Metcalfe's Law such that V is proportional to the square of N, where N is what I refer to as the generalized user base.  Below is a log chart of bitcoin's Metcalfe Value versus its market cap over its complete price history:




The market price dances about the value trying to predict what will happen next.  

Each community member adds a different ΔN-value to the coin.  Someone like Patrick M. Byrne (CEO of Overstock) brings a large ΔN-value to bitcoin because his involvement has a pronounced effect on the coin's economy.  Someone with 0.1 BTC that enjoys gambling at just-dice.com brings a smaller (but still positive) ΔN-value to the community.  

Let's face it, people make decisions based on their enlightened self-interest.  All else being equal, why settle for less when you could have more?  The question then is "what community should you join if you want your contributions to be maximized?"

Since

   V = c N2,

by differentiating we get

   ΔV = 2 c N  ΔN = √(4 c V) ΔN.

This means that the value you bring to the community (ΔV) is proportional to how productive you are (ΔN) but scaled up by the square root of the value that already resides in the community.  In other words, if you know yourself to have positive productivity and if you want to maximize the value of your contributions, you should join the cryptocurrency community that already has the most value.  

I`m not very good at mathematics, so i will stick to bitcoin. Grin

I don`t trust most of the altcoins and i won`t use them.
8527  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there any risk in using Bitcoin over Public WiFi ? on: December 07, 2016, 12:36:59 PM
We all know that it is not advisable to use e-banking, credit/debit cards, etc over public WiFi as the information can be misused by the hackers.
Is there any chance that the same can happen if we make bitcoin transactions over public WiFi ?
I assume due to high security measures in bitcoin, it is not possible. Am I correct ?

There is a risk of a computer using public Wi-fi to be hacked.

If the PC is hacked,the hackers might gain acess to online btc wallet account paswords and other

important information.
8528  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Will Kill The Income Tax on: December 07, 2016, 12:32:03 PM
As the age of cryptocurrency comes into full force, it will facilitate a subversively viable taxation avoidance strategy for many of the technically savvy users of peer-to-peer payment systems. In doing so, cryptocurrency use will act to erode the tax revenue base of national jurisdictions, and ultimately, reposition taxation as a voluntary, pay-for-performance function. In this post, I cover some of the benefits such a strategy will have for cryptocurrency investors, why our notion of taxation is ripe for disruption, and why cryptocurrency taxation is enabled by default.

Read The Full Article

Offshore companies are already killing the income tax.Bitcoin won`t kill it.

The governments might start banning bitcoin because of the lack of taxation.
8529  Economy / Economics / Re: Why Bitcoin has power nowadays ? on: December 07, 2016, 05:49:53 AM
Bitcoin has become a new power in the world of money as we all know that all sides deal with it so it has to survive until it become the powerful source of life . So what it is difference between bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies? and why Bitcoin has become powerful among other currencies and cryptocurrencies  ?

Firstly ,let us define bitcoin by defining cryptocurrency briefly then pass to make a contrasts between Bitcoin ,Dogecoin and litecoin .
We hear always that bitcoin is the money of the future .this expectation can be taken seriousely when we see bitcoin nowadays and how much transactions executed per day which is surprising . we can say that bitcoin is a cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency is a money which is not traditional rather it is digital or numerical which works electronically ; the most common cryptocurrencies are Bitcoin , Dogecoin and litecoin and bitcoin has something special in contrast to others and this specialty is represented by the number of transcations made per day and its volume, so bitcoin and litecoin and dogecoin differ in their volumes which will interpret to us that bitcoin has power nowadays.

In fact bitcoin is increasing exponentially in volume and numbers of transactions which will get us to the hell of thinking that bitcoin may take the lead of other cryptocurrencies if we don't say that it will take the lead of traditional currencies.because it has power which can fortify its presence in today world.

Why bitcoin has power?

Because there are people who support it,develope it and use it on a daily basis.

By the way,i don`t think that bitcoin increases exponentially in volume.
8530  Economy / Economics / Re: What the Italian Referendum could mean for the price of Bitcoin on: December 07, 2016, 05:47:45 AM

I think the Italian referendum means absolutely nothing for bitcoin and the btc price.

I don`t know how much bitcoin is used by the italian people,but this referendum won`t change anything.
8531  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin governance sucks! on: December 07, 2016, 05:43:55 AM
For all you that love 'decentralization', it has made a right fucking mess of things.

Basically the open wild, wild west of 'consensus' is causing tremendous problems in the Bitcoin network.  People are not working constructively together to achieve a remarkable new system, but rather fighting like little school girls on Reddit.  This is a damn mess.  We need a CEO and management to direct efforts and align them to reach a goal. 

Is it the case there can be no noble CEO?  I don't buy that theory.

Why are you so angry?

There are some issues,but i`m sure they are going to be resolved.

Who do you suggest for a CEO?
8532  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: When did you begin using Bitcoin? on: December 06, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
Hey guys,

I started using Bitcoin this year (2016) in april. Smiley

Now my question for you is:

When did you begin using Bitcoin?


Best regards,

Patrick Grin

I started using bitcoin last year.It was July 2015.

I knew about bitcoin back in 2013.

You are using btc for less than a year.You are a newbie. Grin
8533  Other / Off-topic / Re: Would You Choose $50K Value Paid as Bitcoin, Gold or New Corvette on: December 06, 2016, 01:01:16 PM
This is a fun poll to see what people value. If a game show offered a choice of $50K but paid as Bitcoin, Gold or a new Corvette which would you choose?

Nobody will choose the new Corvette. Grin

Why don`t you add real estate in the list?

I would choose $50K paid as bitcoin or some real estate property. 
8534  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What is being told to people in High Schools about Bitcoin on: December 06, 2016, 12:58:45 PM
Five days ago, a friend of mine studying Economics at High School had a discussion with its teacher, regarding Bitcoin, since I told her about that. Here's what the teacher said :

1. That's illegal : He did not bring many proves here, just saying that since it has not been regulated as a currency, we were in a grey area, and something in a grey area is rarely something that will become totally white from one day to another. He added that the sole purpose of that was to buy all kind of drugs over the Internet.

2. It will crash : He said that he had studied Bitcoin's price evolution throught the time (what I doubt) and said her that being so constantly rising was a sign that it was not a viable project. Its proof : manipulated prices of things like silver or wheat are very stable !

3. Anyone clear in its head wouldn't use it : First, he doesn't recognise any kind of manipulation of the money and the danger that there is for people keeping all their savings in fiat. I know that because I had him as a teacher too some times ago. So trying to explaining him about the fact that there is a clear war against cash and evident facts, like that that shows our money need to be converted into something viable to be protected from massive surveillance, is useless. Him not understanding that, since its the best argument I have, I couldn't have replied. When she told him about the speed of transactions, he replied "we have PayPal", so I said me that it wasn't worth to ever try explaining anything. As a final point, he said again that the sole real use that is making standing apart is that you can buy drugs on the Internet...

4. Bitcoin at a bigger scale would fail : I couldn't explain you much what he said because what she told me wasn't very clear so I personnally did not understood, as her I presume how confuse her explaination was. To summarize, he said that it's still a little market and that it will fail to scale and will go back to close to nothing in value.

I'd like to get your feelings on that. Just call the arguments 1, 2, 3 and 4 and tell me what you would have replied back and what it does inspire you !

"This is illegal"-This is a big fat lie.Bitcoin is legal to use in most countries.

"It will crash"-Bitcoin exists for 7 years without crashing.

"Anyone clear in mind wouldn`t use it"-Obviously we are all idiots....

"....at a bigger scale would fail"-I`m not sure about that. 
8535  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 21 millions bitcoin in question on: December 06, 2016, 07:25:46 AM
Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

My question is why they will not?

Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

what do you think?

Bitcoin miners will start thinking just like central bankers. Grin

The more money central banks print,the more profit for the central bankers.

Sooner or later the system will be blown away. Grin

 
8536  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin can you stand alone? on: December 06, 2016, 07:21:41 AM
Can you stop pricing yourself in fiat?

I would say it is with almost 100% certainty that you cannot.

I'm wondering just how long you will use the fiat banking system as your crutch.





What`s the problem about btc pricing in fiat?

99,9% of the people in the world use fiat and maybe 0.01% use bitcoins.

This won`t change soon.
8537  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: From your own selfish perspective, where do you want bitcoin to end up? on: December 04, 2016, 07:33:54 AM
it's a given that everyone here wants bitcoin to make them rich.

what i'm more interested in is what you yourselves want bitcoin to become. do you want it to be accessible to everyone in the world so it becomes a global currency, do you lean more towards gold 2.0, would you prefer it if it stayed under the radar and was the preserve of a knowing in crowd?

personally i'd like it to be available to everyone whoever and wherever they are without any type of barrier so they can transact without the usual restriction and problems. at the same time that would raise the possibility of being clamped down on by governments that much higher. you could argue a gold 2.0 would lessen that risk or make it much worse if real wealth moved into it. i dunno.
 

The more people addopt bitcoin,the more restrictions and regulations will appear.

If bitcoin grows fast and becomes a real global currency used by billions of people it will lose some of it`s

advantages for sure.
8538  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If a person has millions of Bitcoin and he dies one day................. on: December 04, 2016, 07:30:26 AM
If a person has millions of Bitcoin and he die one day and no body can hack his Bitcoin wallet than what will happen with those Bitcoin? Considering this situation is this possible that Bitcoin will not exists for use in the world any day since limited numbers of Bitcoin can be generated?

What is your thought on this?

If nobody knows about the bitcoins in his wallet and if they are on some offline wallet then yes,they are lost.

If they are deposited in some online wallet like Coinbase,perhaprs the wallet admins/owners can steal them. Grin

Just kidding about the second idea.

8539  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How do Bitcoins really circulate into users? on: December 04, 2016, 07:26:12 AM
Bitcoins are really becoming known due to its price and demand. But how do really Bitcoins circulate into users? Does it circulate like a real money that circulate as a tax. Can someone explain it sir?

Thank you.

What do you mean by "real money that circulate as a tax"?

You can buy goods and services with bitcoins,you can use btc for gambling.It`s like real money.

Why  are you asking this question?
8540  Economy / Economics / Re: The Illuminati thinks Bitcoin is better than gold on: December 03, 2016, 02:41:11 PM
YouTube reference here: The Case for $10,000 Gold

Quote
If the world moves towards pure digital currency economy. What is the purpose of gold then? Something like bitcoin would be created or bitcoin could expand to become global.

Nice to see the Illuminati actually mentioning Bitcoin in a rather bullish way.

Are there still any illuminati in the world?I though they are all dead and forgotten.

Gold will always be used as a currency or accet,a pure digital currency economy is still very unrealistic.
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