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8801  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling PayPal USD/GBP in return for BTC on: August 09, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
http://bitcoinary.com it is then. have to trust individuals

There is also Tangible Cryptography's FastCash4Bitcoin service.  We are currently out of PayPal funds but expect more funds tonight or tomorrow.  That was the tongue in cheek comment I was making upthread but I don't think the OP got it.
8802  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Trying To Understand Bitcoin Charts on: August 09, 2012, 05:06:24 PM
Quote
   
Question 2: Why would a transaction ever have change that needs to be returned to the sender?  With BTC can't I give a vendor exact change every time, so that he'd never have to give me anything back?

Bitcoin can only create transactions by using as the input an ENTIRE prior unspent output.  The most important thing to realize is that Bitcoin tx have inputs and outputs.   The "value" of your wallet is an abstraction.  It is simply your client (software which analyzes the wallet) taking a SUM of all the unspent outputs which you have private keys for.   The input of a tx is the output of a PRIOR tx.  You can only use unspent outputs in a new tx.  Once they are part of a tx they can never be used again ("spent").   

Say you I send you 50 BTC (for simplicity lets assume this is compromised of a single 50 BTC output).   No matter how you spend that the input for the tx will be 50 BTC.  

Want to spend 20 BTC?   Input: 50 BTC   Output: 20 BTC + 30 BTC "change" back to an address you control.
Want to spend 1 BTC?  Input: 50 BTC  Output: 1 BTC + 49 BTC "change" back to an address you control.

Quote
Question 3: If the only difference between this chart and the one above is the removal of "change", why is the shape of these charts so dramatically different?  The huge difference makes it seem like the change that is returned to the buyer is comprised of MOST of the money that was initially transferred from buyer to seller.  It seems kind of like an equivalent real-world example would be me giving every cashier at the grocery store 5 times as much cash as is needed to cover the cost of my groceries... and then she gives me most of the money back.  This doesn't happen most of the time in real life, so why would it be happening most of the time with BTC?

In the early days of Bitcoin there really was nothing to "spend" it on so most tx tended to be accumulation.  This resulted in most addresses having very large unspent outputs. As people started "breaking" up those unspent outputs in tx involving smaller amounts most of the volume WAS change.  Nice observation.


Forget the crypto lets think about it in physical terms that might make it easier.
In the physical world with fiat say you want to buy a soda at the store for $1.25.   You open your wallet and the only bill inside is a $50 one.   How large will the tx be?  $50 right?   Input: $50 from your wallet.  Output: $1.25 to merchant's "wallet", $48.75 back to your wallet. Now in the fiat world your $48.75 is compromised of multiple fixed denomination bills & coins.  Only the central bank can issue currency and they issue them in a few fixed size denominations.

Now imagine the physical world worked like the Bitcoin protocol.  In Bitcoin the outputs (i.e. $1.25 to merchant AND $47.75 back to you) become new "bills".   Hypothetically the merchant would destroy your $50 bill and in the process print a $1.25 bill for himself (not a dollar and a quarter but a single $1.25 bill) and a $47.75 bill for you.   Your "change" wouldn't be a bunch of fixed denomination bills it would be a newly printed bill for exactly $48.75.

Why doesn't the fiat world work that way?  Well the obvious reason is trust.   A merchant could cheat and destroy a $50 bill and make $100 or $1,000 worth of new bills.   The bitcoin protocol prevents that.   Miners validate tx and put them in blocks.  Those blocks will be rejected by other miners if they are invalid.  If you have a tx which has $50 input and $50.00 + $1.25 output it will be invalid.   If the tx is invalid the block is invalid.  Since miners get compensated for good blocks added to the blockchain they have an incentive to reject bad tx.

Now all these examples have involved a single input for simplicity but they don't have to.   Say I give you a $28.75 bill.  Your wallet now has two bills one for $48.75 and one for $28.75 (in Bitcoin we would call these unspent outputs).  If you wanted to buy something which was <$28.75 you could use either bill.   If you wanted to buy something more than $48.75 you would need to use both bills.   If you had lots of bills you could choose the ones which closest matches the change to make it small (or possibly nothing).


8803  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need confirmation of how public and private addresses work. on: August 09, 2012, 04:33:41 PM
if you did no sends since importing it, you can delete the wallet.dat

The Satoshi wallet uses a keypool so that wouldn't cause a problem.
8804  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Need confirmation of how public and private addresses work. on: August 09, 2012, 04:33:17 PM
I can delete my wallet.dat correct? Or is there a way to get that address out of there?

No easy way to remove a private key from the Satoshi wallet.

You can delete the wallet.dat without risk if either of the following are true
a) the wallet.dat has no other private keys w/ value (i.e. wallet's value is zero other than the test private key you imported)
OR
b) you have a good backup made prior to importing the test private key.
8805  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: WTB 25 BTC for PayPal or other method of payment on: August 09, 2012, 02:54:26 PM
TangibleCryptography can sell you 25 BTC today @ below MtGox last with no fees.  Just deposit at a any Bank Of America branch.

Bitcoins Direct
8806  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: anonymous MTGOX instructions wanted on: August 09, 2012, 01:04:42 PM
If you only want MtGox to reply there is this technology called email.  It is a point to point communication system well suited for this type of inquiry.  This website is known as a "forum" it is a platform which allows the exchanging of ideas among many participants, an activity that would be difficult or impossible using email.

The non-snark answer is MtGox TOS allows they to restrict your account for just about anything, at any time, under any conditions, and require just about any type of information they deem fit to restore account access.
8807  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Could someone help me create a bitcoin based stock exchange, similar to GLBSE or on: August 09, 2012, 04:51:09 AM
You better have a pretty strong background in coding, as well as IT and web security.

Even so, open source? WAT?  Huh

Yeah that would be crazy.  I mean trusting your money in a site based on open source code?  What's next trusting your money in a decentralized open source network?
8808  Economy / Lending / Re: Tangible Cryptography LLC seeks Line of Credit to expand working capital. on: August 09, 2012, 02:45:18 AM
Quote from: Anonymous Lender
Gotcha. So the profit potential here is 4.8K in total then if a lender lent out the full 20K.

Correct.

$20,000 * 1% per week = $200 interest accrues per week.  
There is no compounding as interest-only payments are made weekly.
24 weeks @ $200 per = $4.8K.
8809  Economy / Lending / Re: Tangible Cryptography LLC seeks Line of Credit to expand working capital. on: August 09, 2012, 02:34:19 AM
Sorry for the delay in getting back to potential lenders.  My day job demanded some late hours today.

Quote from: Anonymous Lender
I can finance this on my personal credit card at 9.9% APR however I am looking to refinance my house in the next six months and a $20K advance probably won't help my credit score. Smiley  If I can't secure a loan the backup plan is to wait for the refinance to be completed and then draw an advance from my personal credit card.
So this means that the LoC B is actually a 6-month long loan, at which point you would obviously refinance using your CC for the lower rate, correct?

Most likely although the loan can be canceled by either party with 30 days notice so it may be canceled prior to that.  It is also possible I may refinance later than 6 months but most likely the loan will not be longer than 6 months.
Quote from: Anonymous Lender
You also mentioned home equity. I would never finance a business venture with home equity.  That is just poor risk management IMHO.  Saving a couple % isn't worth the risk of losing your home if things go south.
This statement doesn't instill confidence... I mean, if you got the loan from a forum member, you'd have to back it personally - so what's the difference between that and getting a HELOC?

HELOC is secured by your home.  Indulge me a slight derail.  Nobody should ever get a HELOC for anything.  Period.    I know in this "cradle to grave" ultra-consumerism world we like in that seems insane but the US bankruptcy code provides significant homestead protection.  A protection one voluntarily tosses out the window when they opt for a HELOC.  Nothing is worth that.  The equity in your home is the ultimate safety net.  I have every intention of honoring my bills but what happens if I end up a comma for 9 months, I have to care for a terminal child, or my wife gets cancer and we rack up $3 million in medical bills trying to fight it.   In situations like that most people (myself included) would be financially destroyed.  By business, my savings, and my investments will likely all be wiped out.  My good credit, my name, my reputation equally destroyed.  It is also possible I would lose my job/income.  After a financial anhiliation which wipes out everything you spent your whole life building you might still be able to keep your house ... unless you were foolish enough to attached what would be otherwise unsecured debt to your primary residence via the HELOC.

Of course banksters don't want you thinking like that.  They want you thinking like a HELOC is just a lower interest rate credit card.  SIGN SIGN SIGN get your free moniez.  
8810  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Bitcoin is a better choice as a currency for Americans than gold on: August 09, 2012, 12:04:59 AM
A D&T Public Service Announcement for the reading impaired:

Quote
The US has a lot of problems but lack of fossil fuels isn't one of them. 

This has been a D&T Public Service Announcement for the reading impaired
8811  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Bitcoin is a better choice as a currency for Americans than gold on: August 08, 2012, 10:02:41 PM
When shortages happen your grandkids likely will already be dead.  The US has the largest reserves of coal and with shale gas has upward of 100+ year supply.  Most of that is unexplored so it could be easily triple that.   

But wait you say we don't have enough oil?  Well we haven't done any real exploring of either cost if 30+ years so we really don't know how much oil we have.  Still there isn't anything magical about oil.  If the price of oil and thus gasoline ends up being significantly higher per unit of energy compared to nat gas expect to see nat gas cars hitting the road.

The US has a lot of problems but lack of fossil fuels isn't one of them. 
8812  Economy / Lending / Re: Help me buy a car, earn double it's value on: August 08, 2012, 09:54:19 PM
Not sure where you live but in the US the bank holds the title. At least in every car loan I've ever had.

Depends on the state in the US.  I know because I had a car in KY and VA.  In VA the bank keeps the title.  In KY you get the title but it reflects a lien by the holder of the note.   In VA when you pay it off the bank sends you the title and you send it to DMV and they issue a new title.  In KY when you pay it off they send you a letter clearing the lien you take that and the title and get a clear title.

Same difference either way the lendee's interest is protected.
8813  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling PayPal USD/GBP in return for BTC on: August 08, 2012, 09:46:13 PM
I was kind of aiming for a "quick exchange" sort of scenario.

Kinda like getting some fast cash for bitcoins?
8814  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will deflation be the fatal weakness of bitcoin? on: August 08, 2012, 08:04:09 PM
I wonder if there are any failed deflationary currencies. Actually I guess no.

There is a simple reason.  Inflation hurts the productive and helps the debtors. 

Collectively around the world who are the largest debtors?  Governments of course.
Who sets monetary policy?  Governments of course.
Who benefits the most from an inflaitonary policy?  Governments of course.

Any government that adopted a deflationary policy would face their unsustainable debt growing in value rather then robbing their creditors with inflation.  The US national debt can grow to any amount it wants.  The only true metric if debt/GDP and guess what happens when you inflate your currency 20%.  Nominal GDP goes up 20% while the amount of debt is fixed (assumming no new debt).  The "real" (adjusted for inflation) carrying cost of the debt is reduced.   Using the same "trick" governments can deficit spend forever.  Just rack up debt to less than the rate of inflation and in real terms you debt will decline towards zero.

Free money!!!!!

8815  Economy / Lending / Re: Tangible Cryptography LLC seeks Line of Credit to expand working capital. on: August 08, 2012, 07:37:13 PM
Debt does have 1 value over equity.  Grin

Do you know what it is?

If I were you, I would be setting up an additional company for a later purpose....

I am not sure what you are hinting at.  Care to share with the rest of the class?
8816  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: FastCash4Bitcoins Support Thread (Bank funds available) on: August 08, 2012, 04:48:22 PM
Got to be a record.  Out of bank funds. 
Smokes people that was ~ 3,000 BTC in 5 hours.

In 5 hours we bought more coins than were traded on most exchanges in the last 24.
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

We should have more funds this evening and tomorrow.
8817  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling PayPal USD/GBP in return for BTC on: August 08, 2012, 04:30:53 PM
PayPal would have no reason to limit my account (even if I'm sending a lot of gifts)

Of course they will.  You are (from their point of view) stealing.  You are using their payment system for free for transactions which don't qualify as free.   If when they catch you they will freeze your account and reverse all those gifts back making your customers accounts negative.
8818  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Selling PayPal USD/GBP in return for BTC on: August 08, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
And this thread for an example of a legit person who got screwed by PayPal: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83679.0
Seriously, don't do this often unless you have a business account like TangibleCrpytography and spendbitcoins.com .

I would clarify that neither TangibleCryptogrphy nor SepndBitcoins sends payments as a gift.   Neither does Bit-Instant (technically they use a partner to send PayPal payouts, but that partner doesn't send them as gifts).   It is a recipe for failure.  Someone can get away with it for a small amount of transactions but eventually it is going to hit PayPal fraud screen.

Has anyone (outside of fraudulently marking Bitcoins sales as gifts) ever known someone who got even 5 "gifts" from 5 different PayPal users all over the country in the same month?  How about 20?  How about 20 a month every month for 3 or 4 months in a row?   That is what the fraud system is wondering too "hey beep beep beep that is weird".
8819  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining pools are decentralizing on: August 08, 2012, 03:26:47 PM
Yeah I was excited until I saw how small DeepBit slice was.  Either the data is in error or it is only for a single day and DB is simply having a run of very bad luck.

Wonder how the same chart for last 2016 blocks looks?
8820  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What could cause Bitcoin to fail? on: August 08, 2012, 02:08:03 PM
Maybe bullets.

Bitcoin, bullion, and bullets sounds about right.
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