Apologies for bumping an old thread, I'll delete if I find a newer one.   

Bitpay lists a number of wallets as compatible but I presume there is no reason not to also use the greenbits android wallet to do exactly the same thing.   It also complies with payment protocol for some time as listed above, is that correct or anyone experienced anything different to that ?

Something to do with lambos and a conference is a reason for a rise.   Not sure how Lambo adds up to anything more the doge meme but this article was funny


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-14/bitcoin-climbs-from-three-week-low-as-lambos-take-manhattan


So he is arguing against competitive currency valuation or the status of the USA economy before Federal reserve arrived and saw 90% of dollar value lost.    Every so slightly self biased in his observation possibly.


If something is continually failing, a drift or occurrence of alternatives is a very healthy response by the economy to avoid that failure.  If the devaluation benefits some it does not benefit the millions who start life with nothing but their own labour and payment for that labour.

10k I think is the score it gets for general crypto community awareness and involvement maybe.   Zero would represent a dead coin with no activity/volume  occurring, market price can be something else not always straight forward either as it relies on liquidity.
The price I see mentioned there is $60 which is roughly the oil barrel price when PTR was all planned out and Ive read that mentioned before.  Also some figure of 16 but not sure how that is being calculated


I've seen no mention of an airdrop.  If anyone was going to get tokens like this it would be the people of Venezuela surely

Thats a western paradigm which holds alot of weight when the centre of the universe is Washington manufactured USD but with Bitcoin I do expect a seperate dynamic more globally based.  Apart from the price being quoted in dollars I really think the driving force is from Asia or any productive nation especially outside the inner circle of QE reserves.   I believe more selling exists in western markets then what is really driving Bitcoin up more then most of us expected long term.

Its not what I'd call a bear market, it feels alot more positive.   A rising 200 day average also seems to clash with that, maybe in time we see that measure turn negative and we should expect some decline and more challenging action.    I see indecision perhaps but not a negative market.

I'd be fine if we end 2018 hovering anywhere round 10,000, I would never have guessed that previous to 6 months ago.   Worst case to me is to flip with high volatility and for BTC to be so unpredictable it throws and deters longer term investment and usage.   So if flip between 1k and 10k violently then sure, but just being boring and going sideways into 2019 at around this price level then its fine.
Maybe its bad for speculators and exchange monkeys hoping for the bigger swing but its really the base users who matter more.  Its possible futures have stolen some of that action, I would guess its some competition and pricing operating off the chain.

If the wider implication for BTC is we need to accumulate price or its somehow a negative then I really hope thats wrong.  Price should not equate to flight speed where we stall if we dont break 10k, I really disagree. Price is just an arbitrary figure and the world should be served by BTC at 3k just as much as it is at 10k.   Its a problem if that were true, price very likely rises from growth but unlike the FED I dont want to call inflation growth.



I dont know if its especially useful but I'm going to leave the channel in as I think it effects prices some. I still expect more positive action then prior to us leaving the trend down

Speculators naturally evaporate under heat, its natural they look for easy trends and continuation not the turning points so much which is more of a process of confirmation of various support I think


Its the little bitty 'investors' that matter way more then the whales.   If it was not that way then it'd be all about Bill Gates being negative or whoever, we'd never have got this high in the first place.  They are confounded by Bitcoin because its nothing to do with the usual elite money flow which is, FED > QE > Banks > Blue Chip business > Long term owners of low tax assets.
Gates can issue his debt for 1% over five years, BTC function at present anyway represents no purpose in comparison to that

Real capitalism is coming from the billions not the rarefied Washington lobbyists.   BTC might not be quite that large but its probably much more diverse then has become normal with USD debt economy hence we've had the bell rung for BTC maybe a hundred times now.   I'd like to think it best serves the little guy and prospers by that association, leads to some confusion for those who've had their head in the political trough and see the world through that prism.


I had BTC in downward channel and breaking out.  Just a short term observation but its reentered that channel and come near to hitting the bottom trend line to that formation.   I'm not sure its valid when it varies this much and reverses but my guess this is poor timing for sell on that basis.    A better look would have been confirmation and a further rise above here.  Longer term trends are more reliable to call

The next point or the real point is the 200 day moving average.   We had some decline since the 10k area, so now the speculation is to the extent of that short term pullback.

I plotted in a downward channel and I think its broken out of that and upwards which should mean more bullish movement going forward however a break can hesitate and require confirmation so I'm not entirely sure but generally I think its more positive not a time to sell now exactly

We need a naughtiness regulator to adjudicate :p     I know of a friend of someone who got his way through university this way, but they never hacked anything just always supplied work which was not written by themselves.   So long as you pay for original work its probably very hard to stop, except for the fact he didnt learn anything on his course and could have been found out. 
 He was a foreign student going back home after and just wanted to pay for the certificate to get into certain jobs that required a degree, perhaps he had a position lined up for him waiting and would then run the union never actually doing the job anyway.

The hack would be more feasible for your local network, our high school computer department students had the net admin password to use whenever they wanted.   Any results recorded they were able to alter so long as the teacher didnt notice or they weren't too blatant.    I had pages printed out of everyones logins.
Inevitably they wrote stupid insults and it became completely obvious.  Thats the kind of hack which could work, vs a commercial organisation $100 is kinda laughable.  Maybe you find someone who thinks its a viable exercise, probably not.

Speaking of earliest supporters, someone posted this chart about various crypto inflation rate and also showing the ICO or initial distribution for various coins.  Ripple and Doge looking especially off being mostly straight up from launch, suggesting poor distribution.  I wondering if anyone wants to add in or verify data for BLK before I repost it at all so its on the map so to speak

The incentive is human nature like much of this forum to begin with, why are we even here discussing matters.   We could just go and do it I guess, but actually there is a process of discovery and merit is part of underlining good points made.  
Its a perfectly reasonable system, nothing too serious and hopefully reduces any benefit to posting without any concern for the reader of the post.  Its a simple premise, not really harsh or specially restrictive though it no doubt slows the progress through ranks for some a bit.  Activity was already quite slow to accumulate I thought so I'm not sure its worse for any normal poster.


I was just going to comment as far as negatives are concerned I accidentally typo'd a merit twice over.   Call it lag or something but I only meant to give 1 merit and it went through twice.   Not a big deal and I did like the information in the post, useful so I dont mind that much.   But hey theres a possible negative, the random mistake factor I guess.

I sometimes just merit because I wanted a kind of bookmark for that post, maybe its an index to other posts or whatever.  I rarely give more then 1 merit, not exactly super generous here but I try to be consistent :p


Everything you see or will ever do is slightly flawed, the world is flawed.  Humans are most definitely flawed in everything they do, this is reality.    If ever encountering perfection it should knock your socks because its very rare in my experience. Its a reasonable system that serves some purpose, I see no great reason to oppose its existence.   Possibly distribution could be improved but it cannot be made too lax either, so its unknown at what balance it will best operate yet I think.

Bobby Fishers mother was Jewish (also likely his father) and so was he, that was the point I was making.  The problems he attributed as some kind of conspiracy was just a poor way of dealing with his own internal conflicts.  I presume it was easier for him to shadow box with this mythical enemy then beat himself up over his own failings.  It doesnt take much to realise both entities were the same, himself.
He was a genius and he had massive flaws along with it



Heres a better quote, generally true and more applicable to bitcoin and modern forex market moves long term I think

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/3635401/Bobby-Fischers-final-bizarre-act.html

Imagine people standing on a rowing boat, even a larger boat you dont ever want to see all people standing on the same side.  Its incredibly unbalanced and leads to a capsized boat possibly to the loss of the boat and failure for everyone.     All buyers would not be a positive event to see, something is not right if that happens.  
 I agree with Rozita, a developed market involves everyone from many different perspectives, stances, timing and backgrounds.   I'm really negative on a market reliant on just one kind of customer as its far more fragile then a product anyone can use and I hope Bitcoin becomes increasingly friendly and easy to use for this reason.

This is a horribly scary thread and I hope it was meant as a joke, not a common view by many.   Bitcoin long term gains from the down moves and the up moves, so long as we find volume and there is some utility ongoing to the usage of the BTC blockchain.  You can be sure there is alot of competition out there who want to replace Bitcoin with their own system and take that revenue, so a stable slow gain in population even if it didnt see any price change is very bullish.

This outlines why obvious conclusions are wrong.  I can make money shorting or betting against bitcoin, maybe half a dozen providers will allow me to do this with very little capital required by myself.   Free money if all its going to do is go down.
Even better the profits from such a bet is tax free, great I live in a really liberal part of the world that does not mind me winning bets.  They tax the company instead and like I say theres half a dozen opportunties for me to short bitcoin.

However I'm not short Bitcoin even on a 'sure thing'   Mostly I cannot do this knowing markets do not move in simple straight lines, I need a better set of reasoning to do this and blindly shorting something that can move so powerfully doesnt seem best.

The problem for me is we are under obvious resistance, the 200 day moving average and I know its pulled back.  A few times its failed to pass that mark but the BTC price when it does move upwards in a bullish way it often does so in an extremely sharp quick movement.  I could lose a thousand in just a few minutes even if I was watching it all the time.    I dont like that idea, I would rather go negative on BTC price especially when there is no gloomy threads saying all we can do is go down.

You get my reasoning, when its all negative its not the time to join the crowd on that bet.   The profit will come from the surprise to the upside.    This guy could even be right negatively projecting price long term but it wont be in a super obvious way.  

ETH and BTC are the two main crypto currencies I would say in general but to buy PTR now would be done on an exchange.  Im not sure I know of any open exchanges now or even planned which are listing PTR, Im sure there must be something in the works but Ive not spotted that stated on the thread.
  It should be in the OP if there are any, since there is the sanction question there has been a lack of news generally.   I would expect to hear far more of PTR considering its size under normal circumstances


Quoted from the OP, Im not a fan when the OP fails to be updated with new info as anything can get lost in discussion back and forth and of course many commentating here have no interest in actively trading so would not know these details.    
Ive scanned their various media accounts but I see no recent information

Hiring a millionaire or billionaire to get involved doesnt sound cheap.   I think Herocoin is going to win support on its merits longer term and when its a good working system it should find more natural supporters pop up and esports does have a ton of varied personalities some of whom just want to be involved in something that is doing whats its supposed to.   Theres a ton of hype in every LAN, tournament and even online games and some of that will come to Herocoin when it allows betting on each games outcome.
  Also actively marketing something still in development would be pushing something without first fixing the wheels back on, its the wrong timing not the best use possibly.

Always pays to have a plan before sitting down I think, I agree there is a mental endurance that is paired with more successful attempts.  After some time people just become their own worst enemy, its not a gamblers mindset so much as an inability to walk away and take whatever winnings or losses you might have with you   Going back to reality and a boring non gambling scenario can be too much of a wrench for some possibly.  Stepping back and just recognising you are tired or not at your best, I would rate this as a good skill in gambling or perhaps any activity.

    Anyone running can recognise tiredness easily but perhaps its more tricky for a gambler with most of the action more virtual, its a special danger to online gambling because it never closes or has a set timetable I think.   Its more apt to a nonsensical plan or lack of any plan for the days gambling, bad risk ensues

^^  I have read that and its very true, most of us will be coming from an investment stand point but in trading its best to enter and exit in a far more rapid way then normal market involvement.
A good tip that keys into that is to actually alot more time not being in trade but possibly planning or watching for ideal entry then you also plan the exit pricing.     Hence when I look at a graph now I try to state possible ceiling but also underlying support below current pricing.

Another further idea is to scale in but also out of a position so that your gain or loss is not absolute and you do not get caught with too much 'size' at a weak price.   Its probably a far more important idea for those traders successful enough to be trading in larger amounts that might get noticed on an order book.

I agree but I also disagree that governments should operate this way.   The most profitable way for a country to benefit from exchange and production within its borders is by free markets and some limited taxation system.

If taxes are too high or control on a market too restrictive then we see the market try to create alternative routes or even that exchange could die off altogether as it has become too expensive.  A country which relies on printing money to finance its budget is near to its end as viable.    To rely on controlling every citizens worth in this way strongly discourages private enterprise and undermines the secure worth of that currency by allowing some in power the free ownership of workers labour.

Not every government thinks this way, I see most of them as just bad debtors with no other choice and so it represents failure.

It very much qualifies as money for the reasons you state.   Just because people regularly acccept it as value in exchange of goods and especially because its done the world over.   Even the most bearish of critics of Bitcoin I have heard declare Bitcoin is money.   Business is way less important then the confidence of the people, thats why they are always trying to advertise things to us and convince of the quality of some product where is Bitcoin is accepted off the back of its own qualities in use.

The bearish critics dont have any real belief in Bitcoin lasting as a high value exchange of worth.   They believe there is better alternatives but even the most negative view will accept its used as money and so it is money.  The confidence and regular exchange of a secure token happens and so BTC equates to money.

   Here in this picture is a demonstration of other systems existing over many years as forms of money in various parts of the world:

Fortune might be an overly ambitious description of most peoples worth unfortunately!   I know many young people are here because high growth is very much required when the initial capital is quite low and crypto remains a high risk, specialised knowledge area which does in a good way open it up to those most able to familiarise themselves with new terms in technology.


If anyone did really gain alot like maybe the OP has done ok then I also agree with the idea of diversifying away from purely ICO investment.  Its not good to rely on just one thing and of course overall for 2018 ETH has declined some, that doesnt mean long term it would only do that and I still think high growth is possible on each business case examined. 

  Thats the positive thing to consider, new ideas are appearing and taking an interest and investigating possible growth is still well worth doing.   However in a bear market or pullback like 2018 has seen, it becomes harder that is for sure

You are repeating here what was already declared possible, is actually happening now in Venezuela by their government and also I believe will definitely happen in future.

The past declaration was made by the head of the IMF.    This is not well know but the IMF already operates a currency standard known as the SDR.  When or if USD ever fails then SDR would be the replacement.   If you think of it roughly as a global EURO then thats not far off, its a way to balance various reserve currencies for the purpose of international trading.

The present implementation of government currency would be Petro which is offered by the Maduro regime in Venezuela.   This is a sanctioned resource centrally dictated by that nation not of independent or freely traded worth, I would not exactly call it a proper cryptocurrency and if you live in a western country it would be simpler personally to avoid it or least check the stance of your government regarding trade with this country.  I believe it might become a corporate exchange token perhaps.

In future I think the SDR and/or IMF crypto will appear at some point as I think USD has ongoing problems it does not appear ready to address.   As USD is the backing to all world trade to a large extent this is what underlines a strong possibility for alternatives being required including crypto currency tendered by various governments, democratic and otherwise.    Its very possible future events will resemble this.