Yeap. Wait for gen 2 Avalons or get some ASICminer shares. Those are valid choices.
I was on the fence really and a little nervous about ordering one. I stopped myself last night from ordering and I'm kind of glad I wasn't able to buy one. It was all free money I had from my BFL refund I got back a while ago which I never transferred back to USD. It just kept growing and growing. I felt a little weary about once you have the unit your on your own. They don't have any customer service now, so I doubt they will have any later. And I don't even think everyone from batch #1 received all their units yet, no? Batch #1 is shipped and Batch #2 will start soon. |
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2 out of "dozen of loud and stupid people" posted already, that was really quick  Yes, the people who aren't shilling for a vaporware manufacturer are the stupid ones. BFL modified their hashing power and power usage targets to match bASIC's specs. It wasn't "we engineered this device to run at 60gh/s and use 60 watts", it was "bASIC says their machine will run at 60gh/s and 60 watts, so we have to say ours will too". bASIC couldn't deliver, what makes you think BFL can? a die shrink from 110nm to 65nm doesn't give you a 90% drop in power usage, and BFL has proven with their delays that they are nowhere near as capable of engineering a rig as Avalon. 2 out of "dozen of loud and stupid people" posted already, that was really quick Yes, the people who aren't shilling for a vaporware manufacturer are the stupid ones. BFL modified their hashing power and power usage targets to match bASIC's specs. It wasn't "we engineered this device to run at 60gh/s and use 60 watts", it was "bASIC says their machine will run at 60gh/s and 60 watts, so we have to say ours will too". bASIC couldn't deliver, what makes you think BFL can? a die shrink from 110nm to 65nm doesn't give you a 90% drop in power usage, and BFL has proven with their delays that they are nowhere near as capable of engineering a rig as Avalon. Avalon and Single are not in the same category, actualy they are not even close to same category. Are you really retarded or just pretending? What do you actualy know about chip design? Nothing. Same as others in your pathetic forum crawling group, you are lame, frustrated and dumb. I'll quote Josh from BFL, post where he profiled you and alikes perfectly: "I know some people think it's easy to do what we are doing, and to that I would like to point out the fact that there still isn't any viable competitors in this market place. Avalon has shipped at most 300 units which has taken them 3 months to accomplish - we are geared up to ship that many (and more) per day. That kind of volume is not trivial. The lack of viable competitors should be an indication of the fact that this process is not trivial, no matter how much the piss poor "engineers" and armchair quarterbacks on Bitcointalk want you to believe they know what they are talking about, the simple fact is: They don't. If they did, they would be multi-millionaires selling you Bitcoin ASICs, and you'd have these amazing product they can supposedly design from scratch in an afternoon. The fact that they are on Bitcointalk talking about how awesome they are as opposed to selling you ASICs should be the first clue that they have no idea what they are doing or what they are talking about." Now go buy Avalons and enjoy them for a while, until network hits few Petahashes or more. Funny how we get this Jr. Member troll that quotes Josh. Is this Josh? You think this is a game but in reality it is not. Think ahead. |
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Did you use Bit-pay or did you choose the wire transfer option?
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HorseRider may still have units to sell. Contact him and see if you can come to terms
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If my understandings are correct, BFL could at least have some tangible results such as "We've achieved 2 GH/s per chip and we are working to ramp up to our target of xxx GH/s. Stay tuned for exciting overclocking potential!". Or hell "We've managed to get one of the xxx 'hashing engines' functional and we're tuning things to bin our chips." I know they mentioned a few weeks ago they managed something like 250 MHz, those details are useful and would quell the angry mob.
It would not quell dozen of loud and stupid people who can't see almost epic difference between medium computer case very noisy machine consuming 600W+ and one that does the same job but fits in a palm, is silent and consumes 60W. Because of those people, there are no regular updates. Yes that is the reason  |
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APPROVE! I was just about to a request for this to be a sub-section under "goods".
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This is not to compete with Avalon, want the chips for their own consumption.
We have read the statements of BitSyncom saying that they will sell but in practice this does not sell, I'm trying to reach and no one listens to me, so I finally decided to do it publicly that seems to be the only way to contact.
I am shocked to read in some places that interest BitSyncom LLC is decentralized network, when really have centralized as never before.
True but I think we are seeing centralization only because the technology was so much more efficient. You can't fault Avalon for that. |
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This is an interesting quote... "I would like to point out the fact that there still isn't any viable competitors in this market place. Avalon has shipped at most 300 units which has taken them 3 months to accomplish - we are geared up to ship that many (and more) per day." BFL-Josh (03-25-2013)  So should we take from this statement, that we should only support BFL ASIC because Avalon isn't viable? Avalon's shipping 900 units (Batch 1 & 2) and another 500 to make 1400 total. Is that not viable? Interesting. |
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We all support a business decision that was first and foremost a pure benefit to BFL partially at the expense of ourselves.
The reason I say this is if they would of only taken a deposit that was payable when they were close to shipping, we would of had our coins to invest with. [...]
I wish this was the case. It could have saved me a bunch of headaches instead of tying up my money for 7+ months, not to mention given many initial customers peace of mind. This, of course, raises the question of "why didn't this happen?", and my initial guess is that they did need initial funds to cover some of the costs to develop ASIC chips (..existing profit from FPGAs probably wasn't nearly enough). [...] fails of the Ethics of Care which looks at the overall affect of the action. They did not care about enough about how much power they weld and instead used it to beat the GPU & FPGA innovation into the ground.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I remember a thing or two from my Business Ethics classes  1. On your first point. Yes, this is likely correct. They needed more money for development, but then we can't forget this supposed "venture capitalist". Til this date, we still have no information about this person, company or transaction so we should just assume, PRE-ORDER CUSTOMERS are the venture capitalist unknowingly. Regardless of being their offering being real or not, people should remember these tactics and make BFL hold their business practices to a higher standard. 2. Thank you, the Ethics of Care arguments fits this discussion so well. They took advantage by disadvantaging MINERS (Made additional investments in GPU, FPGA and ASIC inherently very RISKY) and CUSTOMERS ( by taking all the coins). Just to expand the venture capital statement, this was used in my opinion to make people feel like " they didn't need the money" and the shipment date was so close (June to Oct), it was right around the corner so they could justify giving up their coins to get a " place in line". On the other hand, if customers would of been told up front, delivery would be in 2013, they would of gotten order, not as many and this would of allow more FPGA competition to come into the market before ASIC. THIS SHOULD OF HAPPENED before ASIC. In the end, people would of still bought ASIC from BFL (best in class) but they would of been able to provide more efficient hashing to the network and made more investments in getting coins. Thoughts? |
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Must be a good opportunity. I know you ordered early on.
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How much weight do you have in total?
D
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Congrats. I honestly didn't think a Batch# 1 would ever be sold.
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Unfortunately I wasn't as involved in Bitcoin during the dawn / spread of FPGAs, so I don't have much of an opinion on that side of things. But what I can say is that premature offerings are a great way to build up a customer list (and massive piles of cash), especially since BFL was the first (IIRC) to offer a reasonably priced ASIC device for "pre-order". And as long as they keep pretending they know what they're doing, they can keep playing the "incompetent" card (or at least trying to) in order to fend off fraud accusations when shit hits the fan.
Korbman - First off, well thought out and reasoned reply. I quoted the above statement from you just to ask the question. Great for who? You already know the answer but in the end, that is the rub. We all support a business decision that was first and foremost a pure benefit to BFL partially at the expense of ourselves. The reason I say this is if they would of only taken a deposit that was payable when they were close to shipping, we would of had our coins to invest with. The reason we did it past profit potential is because of how much the ASIC announcement changed the mining market over night, basically either support BFL or get out of mining. So if you use modern ethics (college level) to see if their decision was ethical, it fails with you expand it past them being a business and fails of the Ethics of Care which looks at the overall affect the the action. They did not care about enough about how much power they weld and instead used it to beat the GPU & FPGA innovation into the ground. This is my major criticism that I will not be satisfied until they publicly address this from principle ownership (president, ceo or chairman) addressed to the whole community. |
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Nitpick #1 use spell check. there(their?)  other thoughts... Lets go thru all the trouble to develop and support a decentralized currency and now that we have it up and running lets centralize it in big data centers! I understand your position. I am just letting people know, I have the ability, resources, technical expertise and want to do this service. Some people may not want the constant responsibility to make sure these boxes to maximum up time. This would not be a big data center, it would be a small independent operation in a small town off the grid (almost). It might appeal to others. This is why I am asking. It was presented to me last night and I am actually intrigued. D |
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What sorta prices? How soon could it roll out assuming you decided on that green light today?
I would look at the same fees I have beening doing for my management group 7-9% until ROI and 10-12% until decomission. Now what is sweet here is that once I own title to the building, outside of our power. The rent portion of expenses would be dramtically cheaper so even if difficulty shot up, I could run for much longer for it goes into the red. I am really serious about this. Regarless I am traveling out their soon to get eyes on and talk to my service providers to get a relationship setup. Timeframe: ASAP, my friend owns the building and we have come to terms. |
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The thing is that is very difficult to make long-term projections on hashrate, this is why an estimatetion of "3 months for ROI" doesn't sounds that good in bitcoin world nowadays, while in the "fiat" world a 3 months ROI is an increadible deal.
While you wait for batch #3, 2.5 months can pass. 3 months from that other players could be adding THs to the network, and difficulty could just skyrocket.
Paying 20BTC for a 65GHs machine you will receive in 2.5 months or less is almost a no-brainer. Paying 75BTC is risky if you are in only for the profits, it's very likely that you will profit much more HOLDING those bitcoins.
Don't forget everyone gets hurt when the difficulty goes up but if you have a long enough time horizon, the box should ROI. 12 months is fine if that is what it takes. |
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Community,
Hope we are all doing well. I am posting to test initial interest in a project I might "green light".
ASIC Hosting Center Details:
I have the opportunity to purchase a building from a friend in the Midwest. It is an old Multi-story FreeMasons lodge that is over 4,000 sqft. Brick construction from the 1890s, very quality construction. I has highspeed internet available and cheap power (5.5/kwh). A friend I have known for over a decade lives near by and is willing to relocate to the center and live onsite so I will have security and a person that can do simple tasks like maintain the A/C, check cable connections and manually power cycle the units if my remote access fails. Their is a local security company I can get alarm service and I am going to work with a local IT shop in case I need onsite networking support. The build has been maintained and the roof is in good shape with not water leaks (I would build a cage inside with a cover for redundancy)
I would do a similar ASIC mining manager setup and my initial goal is to get 20-30 units committed but it could handle a 100 or more with current power available.
Please give me some feedback if this would be interesting or PM directly.
Thanks,
Dalkore
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Our hosting service is live. Here is the post: [Flat-rate] ASIC Hosting & Management Service [Insured] ( 0.02/Kwh Electricity) - Link |
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I think the thread is really knawing at the real issue.
Regardless of what clever responses that we may get from BFL. The major issues do not change and I would like and official response to them. It looks quite clear they had limited supply of their "best in class" FPGA chips, if I am wrong then they are they still shipping those quickly being that they are still profitable?
It does look like their pre-announcement about ASIC was mainly to be a shot across the bow of any potential ASIC competitors. If it wasn't purposely done for that effect, we would of seen FPGA shipment time improve over the last 8 months while people waited. They may think this is business and it is none of our business, but that effected many peoples plans including my own and in the end, they could of kept selling FPGA, developed ASIC and announced in Nov/Dec and not made people do many things that they might not of done like making funds available to order a product that was not going to come out for 8 months+ when it was slated for 4.
I personally shut down my GPU farm prematurely because I trusted this product would come out near that time and it down make me obsolete and I didn't want to sell when their was a glut of GPU gear out their. It was my fault but in hindsight, if it I knew they would be this late, I would of still been running, even at $15-20 per BTC.
I feel it just shows a lack of respect for others in the mining community that don't have much choice if they want to mine. In the environment, you should use a light touch, not the iron gauntlet.
Thoughts?
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Off topic: I like how this thread went to shit after, like, 4 posts. Though I suppose that's to be expected..
On topic:
I have no doubt that they're working on developing some "top tier" tech (compared to everything else coming / already out). My biggest qualms come from the blatant dispersion of misinformation and lack of solid evidence.
After everything that we've seen so far and the difficulties BFL has run into, there's no way they would have actually shipped in 2012..and my guess is that they very well knew that. Essentially they create intricate company timelines as to how everything will proceed, but consistently fail to take Murphy's Law into account during it all.
Their general incompetence was pretty clear when they put Josh in charge of PR. If you're representing a company and trying to create positive public relations, there's absolutely no reason to go about trolling. A PR person should be able to let insults roll off, like "water on a duck's back". Simple as that.
Thank you for your comments Korbman. Also, I went through and pruned some of the off-topic comments. I will keep on it. |
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