I just came up with a idea to solve this problem.
I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC. There you that is the solution. Tell me what you think.
How will VMC purchase AMC? Will it buy back all the shares of AMC? But if you did create a VMC offering, and then unite VMC with AMC under one roof, then yes this is exactly what we are all looking for. Again, it is just really important for current shareholders and potential investors like myself to see these two companies merged into one. Yes, VMC would start purchasing AMC shares until it has all of them. |
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I've been a way for the past few hours and this is what i come back to. Finally some posts with substance and direction. This is awesome guys. Will continue to follow the discussion and put in my thoughts. Let's keep this positive dialogue going.
Agreed! It only took about 40 pages but I think we are definitely getting somewhere. Moving funs to Bitfunder as we speak.  Well, we got rid of all the FUDsters. Could not do anything with them here, seems like they have all left. |
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I just came up with an idea to solve this problem.
I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC. There you have it that is the solution. Tell me what you think.
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Ken, if you know how much money you need from investors; then based on the current price of AMC and the percentage of shares AMC needs to pay for everything (including salaries, etc) , I think that should about do it, right? Then some reserved shared that wont be issued unless you need to raise more money.
I do not quite know what you are saying here, could you re-phrase it. |
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Ok, Let say we merge AMC and VMC, who is going to run it?
Ken I was happy with you running things before. I still am. Tell us what resources you need, I'm sure we can work something out. We all want this to succeed. Well, first let get down to salary, I am not getting one now, but I would like to get one. What is the pay? Whenever AMC makes profit, you take the majority of it since you are the majority shareholder. This should provide significant revenue if your projections for the company are anywhere near accurate. Yes, I am very high on AMC, so I now would get the dividends on my shares, right? Just continue with your current plan, and you will make plenty of money. Even right now, with 434 GH/s mining capability, AMC is producing over 10 Bitcoins per day, correct? How many shares do you currently own out of the 40,000,000 released? Even if you only have a third of outstanding shares, you earn over $300 a day at this rate just sitting around. Once you get everything going with the hardware you will earn alot more as long as you have shares. You would be receiving dividends yes. I own very little of the 40,000,000 shares released, only some that I bought because I has 7 BTC floating around and then I bought some this last weekend to support the price, this was in my private account. Somewhere south of 50,000 shares. |
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Does BitFunder tax dividends?
You mean a fee? No there is no fee on dividends. |
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Ok, Let say we merge AMC and VMC, who is going to run it?
Ken I was happy with you running things before. I still am. Tell us what resources you need, I'm sure we can work something out. We all want this to succeed. Well, first let get down to salary, I am not getting one now, but I would like to get one. What is the pay? Whenever AMC makes profit, you take the majority of it since you are the majority shareholder. This should provide significant revenue if your projections for the company are anywhere near accurate. Yes, I am very high on AMC, so I now would get the dividends on my shares, right? |
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Ok, Let say we merge AMC and VMC, who is going to run it?
Ken I was happy with you running things before. I still am. Tell us what resources you need, I'm sure we can work something out. We all want this to succeed. Well, first let get down to salary, I am not getting one now, but I would like to get one. What is the pay? |
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Wow. An actual conversation. Color me impressed.
Yes, me too. |
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Ok, Let say we merge AMC and VMC, who is going to run it?
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Ok, that's the first step, you acknowledge that one company can be done.
The second point, that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do ... well ... change the description!!
This thread is FULL of posts from real shareholders, such as myself, asking you to change it and fix the whole AMC/VMC debacle.
It CAN be done, and it SHOULD be done.
Edit: by the way, something you should keep in mind. The people who are going to buy the asic miners from what you think is VMC, will NOT buy them with this whole AMC/VMC drama happening. So while you may want to keep VMC separate so that you can profit off two companies, you alienate the very customers who would have bought them.
You need to:
- combine AMC/VMC and remove all the problems that its causing
- sell chips, miners etc through AMC (just like ASICMINER does)
- focus on building trust in AMC, the brand
- THEN bitcoin miners will:
a) invest in AMC, and
b) buy mining rigs from AMC
(none of the above will happen with AMC and VMC being separate and all these dramas going on)
Can't change the description, it is a contract and their are not provisions in the contract to change it. Seriously? Are you saying that a business/company, once formed, can't reform itself by changing its own mission/description/goals? Seriously? No, I am say that the description on bitfunder.com can not be changed. It is a contract between the issuer and shareholders. The only way to change it would be to close the company and liquidate it and then do a new offering. This may be true, but it is exceptionally unlikely as companies listed on BTCT.CO post motions for company changes fairly often with no problem. All you need is a certain amount of share holder votes to approve a motion for change. This isn't listed on BTCT.CO |
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To be fair. If you and AMC owns VMC, the only thing needed is to rewrite the contract and motion for share holders to alter the original contract.
I've got a horrible feeling shareholders don't have voting rights.... :/ The fact that the shares are non voting shares (in company specific issues) has nothing to do with being able to vote in listing issues such as contract changes and exchange related issues. There are no provisions in the description for changing it, also bitfunder.com has no provisions for motions or anything else like that. The description is a contract between each and every shareholder. Now if we could get each and every shareholder to agree to the change, then I think we could do it. |
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Ok, that's the first step, you acknowledge that one company can be done.
The second point, that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do ... well ... change the description!!
This thread is FULL of posts from real shareholders, such as myself, asking you to change it and fix the whole AMC/VMC debacle.
It CAN be done, and it SHOULD be done.
Edit: by the way, something you should keep in mind. The people who are going to buy the asic miners from what you think is VMC, will NOT buy them with this whole AMC/VMC drama happening. So while you may want to keep VMC separate so that you can profit off two companies, you alienate the very customers who would have bought them.
You need to:
- combine AMC/VMC and remove all the problems that its causing
- sell chips, miners etc through AMC (just like ASICMINER does)
- focus on building trust in AMC, the brand
- THEN bitcoin miners will:
a) invest in AMC, and
b) buy mining rigs from AMC
(none of the above will happen with AMC and VMC being separate and all these dramas going on)
Can't change the description, it is a contract and their are not provisions in the contract to change it. Seriously? Are you saying that a business/company, once formed, can't reform itself by changing its own mission/description/goals? Seriously? No, I am say that the description on bitfunder.com can not be changed. It is a contract between the issuer and shareholders. The only way to change it would be to close the company and liquidate it and then do a new offering. Well can't you transfer stock options over to the new offering? I don't know of anyway to do it, except the one above. |
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Here is what is listed on the AMC profile page: "Issuer may Modify Description: Option not set."
I do not know if this is what you are saying cannot be changed, but it appears that this certainly can be.
Yes, if the description could be changed, the this would be set to yes. I other words, the description does not have any provisions for the description to be changed. |
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Ok, that's the first step, you acknowledge that one company can be done.
The second point, that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do ... well ... change the description!!
This thread is FULL of posts from real shareholders, such as myself, asking you to change it and fix the whole AMC/VMC debacle.
It CAN be done, and it SHOULD be done.
Edit: by the way, something you should keep in mind. The people who are going to buy the asic miners from what you think is VMC, will NOT buy them with this whole AMC/VMC drama happening. So while you may want to keep VMC separate so that you can profit off two companies, you alienate the very customers who would have bought them.
You need to:
- combine AMC/VMC and remove all the problems that its causing
- sell chips, miners etc through AMC (just like ASICMINER does)
- focus on building trust in AMC, the brand
- THEN bitcoin miners will:
a) invest in AMC, and
b) buy mining rigs from AMC
(none of the above will happen with AMC and VMC being separate and all these dramas going on)
Can't change the description, it is a contract and their are not provisions in the contract to change it. Seriously? Are you saying that a business/company, once formed, can't reform itself by changing its own mission/description/goals? Seriously? No, I am say that the description on bitfunder.com can not be changed. It is a contract between the issuer and shareholders. The only way to change it would be to close the company and liquidate it and then do a new offering. |
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Here is why AMC can not sell the chips. There are no provisions for employees, unless you hire 4 at the same time. There are no provisions for any kind of sales expenses one you hire the 4 employees. There are no provisions for any kinda of hosting services. There are no provisions for hiring someone to develop a website to sell the chips. Even if you hired the 4 employees, the expenses are limited to a 10% maximum. So please tell me how this would be done.
Cool, you posted that 7 seconds before my post above  You are making everything way too complicated. How is ASICMINER able to do everything under one company? But somehow, you think it's an impossibility I am not saying that it can't be done. I am saying that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do. Ok, that's the first step, you acknowledge that one company can be done. The second point, that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do ... well ... change the description!! This thread of FULL of posts from real shareholders, such as myself, asking you to change it and fix the whole AMC/VMC debacle. It CAN be done, and it SHOULD be done. Edit: by the way, something you should keep in mind. The people who are going to buy the asic miners from what you think is VMC, will NOT buy them with this whole AMC/VMC drama happening. So while you may want to keep VMC separate so that you can profit off two companies, you alienate the very customers who would have bought them. You need to: - combine AMC/VMC and remove all the problems that its causing - sell chips, miners etc through AMC - and build trust in AMC, the brand - THEN bitcoin miners will be a) invest in AMC and b) buy mining rigs from AMC (none of the above will happen with AMC and VMC being separate and all these dramas going on) Can't change the description, it is a contract and their are not provisions in the contract to change it. |
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Third, why does AMC need VMC to re-sell its chips in bulk? Why can't AMC handle that itself? So, you bulk-sell chips to VMC, VMC sells them on, AMC gets 70% of the profits, VMC 30%? Why do it like that? Why not just have AMC/VMC together, AMC sells the chips and it receives 100% of the profits from these sales?
Let me just ask you a simple question. How would AMC sells chips itself? Explain to me how that would be done? First, it was me who asked that question. Second, why *can't* AMC do this? I mean, if you're running VMC (and according to http://www.virtualminingcorp.com/about.html, you are), then surely you have all the infrastructure (staff, contacts, distribution systems etc etc etc) all up and running anyway? So if that's the case, and it must be since VMC is your planned chip seller, and you're the CEO of VMC, then why couldn't you do this? [/quote] So let me ask again, How is AMC going to pay for all of this? |
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New Section 5 in the FAQ's
5) So, how can AMC be valued since shares do not directly represent ownership, but profits?
You can use a simple conversion for it: [#investor's_shares * current_price], with [1 - #investor's_shares/40M] (%) of dividends being kept for reinvestment.
Using current values (2nd July 2013), there are ~6M shares sold to investors and ~34M in the growth/expansion fund. At a price of 0.001, AMC is valued at 6M*0.001 = BTC6000, with 1-6/40 = 85% of dividends being kept for reinvestment.
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Here is why AMC can not sell the chips. There are no provisions for employees, unless you hire 4 at the same time. There are no provisions for any kind of sales expenses one you hire the 4 employees. There are no provisions for any kinda of hosting services. There are no provisions for hiring someone to develop a website to sell the chips. Even if you hired the 4 employees, the expenses are limited to a 10% maximum. So please tell me how this would be done.
Cool, you posted that 7 seconds before my post above You are making everything way too complicated. How is ASICMINER able to do everything under one company? But somehow, you think it's an impossibility I am not saying that it can't be done. I am saying that the description of the offering of AMC makes it impossible to do. |
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Third, why does AMC need VMC to re-sell its chips in bulk? Why can't AMC handle that itself? So, you bulk-sell chips to VMC, VMC sells them on, AMC gets 70% of the profits, VMC 30%? Why do it like that? Why not just have AMC/VMC together, AMC sells the chips and it receives 100% of the profits from these sales?
Let me just ask you a simple question. How would AMC sells chips itself? Explain to me how that would be done? eASIC----------->AMC-------------->Potential Chip Buyer Did I miss something?  I'm not trying to be cute, but Swede actually posed a fairly valid question. We've almost got him over onto our side Ken! Just answer the man's question! LOL Here is why AMC can not sell the chips. There are no provisions for employees, unless you hire 4 at the same time. There are no provisions for any kind of sales expenses one you hire the 4 employees. There are no provisions for any kinda of hosting services. There are no provisions for hiring someone to develop a website to sell the chips. Even if you hired the 4 employees, the expenses are limited to a 10% maximum. So please tell me how this would be done. |
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