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961  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The problem with transaction fees on: March 26, 2011, 08:25:32 PM
This process continually repeats itself until transaction fees are reduced to their smallest possible value and very little mining is done. This leaves the blockchain venerable. One solution is continue to pay out a block reward forever. What do people think?

Yes, but this is not a problem. On the contrary, it is the magic of a truly free market at work. Thus benefiting the entire world with the lowest possible transaction fees. You should read "the wealth of nations" by Adam Smith to really understand what I just said.

One solution is continue to pay out a block reward forever. What do people think?

That is not a viable solution. It would completely ruin what Bitcoin currently is.

Keep reading the forums, there are lots of great posts about those topics in here!
962  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Where To Create Your Own Bank For Less Than $25K??? on: March 24, 2011, 05:22:16 AM
It must be possible.

Where can I get a "banking" license in a country and start accepting transactions for less than $25K?

For example in Belize, you can setup a bank, but you need at least $1 million dollars in deposits/backing (I assume since they have no insurance program).

Is it as simple as just setting up a business name in a country that doesn't deal in banking business laws? Like Somalia or Seychelles perhaps? Some place where nobody gives a shit anyways?
963  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are We All Generating The Exact Same Hashes? on: March 24, 2011, 04:21:39 AM
Ok then. Thanks guys! That answers my question. I was wrong.

So a nonce can be basically anything then?

Like 0, or 0a9257n02370?

Any links to the nonce specifications???
964  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Is A Javascript Based Miner At All Possible? on: March 24, 2011, 04:19:26 AM
Check this out: http://www.webtoolkit.info/javascript-sha256.html

Apparantly you can create sha256 hashes through javascript in your browser.

So, can you mine with it?

Maybe with some node.js on the server?
965  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Will the block chain size ever become too large? on: March 24, 2011, 04:08:43 AM
I've been thinking about this problem as well.  If bitcoin is to go mainstream, there needs to be a way to deal with a huge number of transactions.  Here is an example of the math...

In a population of 300 million, estimate everyone does one transaction per day on average.  The current block generation is about one every 10 minutes, or 6 an hour, or 144 per day.  If you divide 300 million by 144, you get 2.08 million transactions per block.  If the minimum size per each transaction is around 100 bytes (I'm just guessing here), then each block is going to be around 200 million bytes.

So, I see the following issues:

1. Huge bandwidth problems.  (144*200 million bytes is 28 Gigs per day.)
2. Storage issues. (28 Gigs per day is 10 Tera bytes per year)
3. Computational issues. (The current block size is around 1-2k.  Computing a hash for 200 MB is going to be much different.)

Here are a few other things I've thought about:

* What happens in the future when you issue a request to send someone funds and do not attach a fee for processing?  If no-one takes your request to process the funds, will the funds stay in "limbo"?
* I was thinking a good way to deal with the huge number of transactions is to mix bitcoin transactions with something like the ripple project (http://ripple-project.org/), or perhaps semi-centralized bitcoin clearing entities.
* Given the huge number of potential transactions per day, perhaps the block size needs to be limited to 2-4k.  This would force the above idea and keep the block chain manageable.

With my home built computer and a 100mbps internet connection, I can (and do) easily download 28 gigs in a matter of minutes.

I also own a few terabytes of hard disk space. It's cheap, and prices are falling faster than the US dollar.

By the time we ever reach 200 million transactions every 10 minutes, the smallest hard drives will probably be a few terabytes in size - and we'll all be rocking 1Gbps dedicated connections!

I don't think the block chain size will ever really be an issure, even for the average joe.
966  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Policies of the hosting company and tld regarding illegal items? on: March 24, 2011, 03:53:28 AM
Public websites generally have legal protections against their members' actions.

I am sure the owners are mighty busy with all of their other endeavors involved with running bitcoin.

They could not be held responsible in the event that somebody sold some drugs through their forum.

For the same reason that youtube cannot be held responsible for distributing copyrighted content. Even though it's all over youtube.

All you have to do as a website owner is take it down within a "reasonable" amount of time.

That, or host it in Somalia.  Cool
967  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Canceling all cards, closing accounts, and moving to bitcoin on: March 24, 2011, 03:50:07 AM
The dollar swings around versus other currencies but you don't go trading them all for Euros when there is a dip.

It swings, but nothing like as much as BTC. The risk of total loss is much higher with BTC in my opinion, which is why I don't want to have any more funds tied up in BTC than I'm willing to risk losing altogether.

Me, neither.

I would not condone investing more than 5 or 10% of your current "savings" - and then expect to lose it whenever the CIA/FBI/whomever decides to shut us down with a supercomputer or any other of the plethora doomsday scenarios available on this forum.
968  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Are We All Generating The Exact Same Hashes? on: March 24, 2011, 03:45:40 AM
This is how I imagine the mining system to work...

There is a certain block value that needs to be "cracked" next.

Code:
1. You take a hash of the current block's value plus the number 0 (as the nonce). 

2. If the resulting hash is less than the value of the target number, you "win".

3. If it is larger than the value of the target number you add 1 to the nonce and then hash the block's value plus 1.

4. Repeat step 2.

Tell me if I am wrong on the above please, that will answer the question I am about to ask!

Are we all generating the exact same hashes? Is there no random "salt" that we each add to the hash strings to make then unique?

Couldn't a "cheater" safely assume that the first 10 million nonces were going to be wrong, and start at 10 million and 1st nonce to get a "head start" on everybody else that is mining?

Just trying to wrap my head around Satoshi's genius.
969  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / How many connections are you seeing on your Bitcoin client? on: March 24, 2011, 03:26:03 AM
I have had mine running for almost 7 days straight without interruption on a 100mbps port. And I can only see about 35 connections maximum at a time.

It has dipped down to about 25 or so but 35 seems to be the upper limit for me.

How many connections are you seeing in your Bitcoin client right now? How long have you had it connected to the internet for without interruption? How fast is your internet connection?
970  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: in UK cost of 50 percent attack on bitcoin is 60 million pounds on: March 23, 2011, 09:41:53 AM
ok, with infiniband and lots of memory it would be 15-20% more expensive. Cooling and power and DC is included in my price. Dual 1 Gbps supplied by default is not that bad.

"Lots of disks" is not included, I admit that. But this is not such an important thing for most computational tasks.


Sooo.... this is a sales thread!???!!
971  Bitcoin / Mining / GTX 590 Anyone??? on: March 23, 2011, 09:07:39 AM
Engadget seems to be pumping it pretty hard.

Will it suck like the rest of the nvidia GPUs?

Apparently it is dual cored.
972  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mining power of Bitcoin vs other networks on: March 21, 2011, 07:44:08 AM
How did he calculate 5,800 petaflops? Bitcoincharts.com shows we are at 500 giga hashes per second as an entire network. Isn't a hash roughly ~5 flops? Which would put us at about 2.5 tera flops.
973  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: How to monitor bitcoin client remotely on: March 21, 2011, 07:29:32 AM
Same way you would monitor anything else?

FreeNX, VNC, RDP?
974  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Thought Experiment on Super Computing and Bitcoin Generation Difficulty on: March 20, 2011, 11:19:33 PM
Guys... whether or not it is "profitable" to generate bitcoins in my ridiculous manner mentioned is beside the point.

If and when a large government entity wishes to destroy bitcoin. Is this one of the ways they could go about it?

The idea was... that they would generate 2016 blocks within a matter of nanoseconds, and then disconnect from the network entirely. Thus setting the generation difficulty bar so high that they "ruin" basically everything.

Even transactions would cease to occur would they not?

A more interesting question is what an entity that controls 1%, 5%, 10% of the processing power devoted to mining could do with such an on - off - on cycle of generating coins. Here's what I think happens:

cycle 1: The entity turns his miners on generating coins at a rate that pushes the difficulty up for the next cycle.
cycle 2: The entity turns his miners off. The difficulty is scheduled to go down next cycle.
cycle 3: The entity turns his miners on again generating coins at a high rate pushing the difficulty up for the next cycle.
cycle 4: Other miners start noticing the pattern and join the on - off - on cycle since it makes sense to only spend electricity during the easy cycles.

cycle n: It becomes obvious to all miners that it is counterproductive to generate coins during the hard cycles and they therefore wait for the easy cycles.

This is a self reinforcing pattern and is unstable as the number of miners remaining in the hard cycles goes to zero the difficulty will flip flop by a factor of 4 (or whatever is the maximum allowed ratio) between the easy and hard cycles. Also the easy cycles will draw more and more newcomers.

More alarmingly, since the difficulty will be slamming against the artificial bounds (the max by 4 factor) it no longer reflects the true difficulty (since it is no longer calculated from the equation that controls block production rate to near one per 10 minutes).

I will give a made up example to show the dynamic: Assume you want to generate 2016 coins per 20160 minute cycle and the available processing power can generate 1000 coins per minute when the difficulty is 1. We set the difficulty to 10000 to get a stable 1000/10000 = 0.1 coins per minute or 2016 coins per cycle.

cycle 1: Entity turns on and adds 10% capacity. Coins produced = 1100/10000 = .11 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 18327 min) -> difficulty is set to 11000
cycle 2: Entity turns off. Coins produced = 1000/11000 = .091 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 22176 min)  -> difficulty is set to 10000 again
cycle 3: Entity turns on. Coins produced = 1100/10000 = .11 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 18327 min) -> difficulty is set to 11000
cycle 4: 10% of the miners notice the pattern and stop mining the difficult cycle. Coins produced = 900/11000 = .082 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 24640 min) -> difficulty set to 9000
cycle 5: Production = 1100/9000 = .122 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 16495 min)-> difficulty back to 11000
cycle 6: Now 30% of miners catch on. Production = 700/11000 = .064 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 31680 min) -> difficulty set to 7000
cycle 7: Now new miners want in on the easy cycle. Base capacity up another 10%. Production = 1200/7000 = .171 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 11760 min) -> difficulty now to 12000
cycle 8: 90% of original miners are in on the game. Production = 100/12000 = .008 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 241920 min) -> difficulty should be 1000 but slams into boundary at 12000/4 = 3000
cycle 9: The game has attracted 50% more miners. Production = 1600/3000 = .533 coins/min (time to produce 2016 = 3780 min) -> difficulty should go to 16000 but stops at 12000 (at the 4x3000 limit)
cycle 10: Production near zero and difficulty down to 3000 again

Difficulty will slam between 16000 and 3000 and most coins will be produced during the 3 day easy cycle with long 24 week periods with high difficulty and few miners.

This kind of instability is inherent in systems that have delay such as happens with the calculation of a new "difficulty" after a delay.

I bet someone controlling even 1% of capacity could, through the amplification of other miners joining him once they notice, cause hard/easy cycles where production in the easy cycle is more than twice desired production.



Or what if they increased the strength/stability of the network for a while and encouraged people to invest heavily in bitcoin... then completely disrupted it with their massive power - causing thousands of people to lose their investments in GPU power overnight. This could ruin bitcoin once and for all I think. The animosity generated by such an event would be unquenchable.

erm...couldnt we just create another blockchain and leave the douchebags to their empty value ?

wash rinse repeat


actually I think thats why satoshi wanted competing block chains . maybe they should be decentralized too as creating one central block chain could be vulnerable....

The problem is when the attacker does this and bitcoin has "kind of" taken off... you are not going to convince millions of people that a technical work around is the solution. "The general public" will simply forget about us.
975  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin == terrorism? on: March 20, 2011, 11:09:57 PM
Wow, I guess the attorney never looked up the word "terrorism" in the dictionary.

Anybody who wears a turban in the United States is considered a terrorist.

Same goes for anybody of darker complexion.
976  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How much hashing power the CIA can organize ? on: March 20, 2011, 11:07:24 PM
With a $10,000,000 budget dedicated to buying 5970s, one could easily create a 10 Tera Hash per second computer cluster that would immobilize the bitcoin network.

See my original post here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4559.msg67079#msg67079
977  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Turning Temporary Chinese Trade Relation into Perma-one on: March 20, 2011, 05:24:29 AM
It's great that the chinese enter the bitcoin economy and all, but all they're doing is selling us goods and services that we like to achieve their homework assignment.

Thus, trading relation will come to an end and the bitcoin economy is left with no more chinese input and we're all the poorer for it.

So we need to turn the trade relation into a perma one by enticing them to stay in the bitcoin economy long after the assignment is over, thus keeping the economic output of the chinese and making the bitcoin economy stronger.

Explain yourself a little more if you could?

You are upset that they are asking for bitcoins to complete homework assignments?

Anybody asking for bitcoins to do anything is currently of value to our incredibly small community.
978  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: An idea to get bitcoin into every country - kick paypal and liberty reserve out on: March 20, 2011, 05:16:55 AM
Just because you are creating an australian exchange does not mean that the exchange must be based inside australia.

Why not create your own bank/financial institution in a less regulated banking market? Then you can charge whatever rate you'd like for bank transfers.
979  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What If We Took After The Belizean Dollar? For A Short While At Least... on: March 20, 2011, 05:10:35 AM
Who decides the rate and who enforces it ?

What happens to someone if they set a different rate ? Do the bitcoin police pay a visit ?




The bitcoin population as a whole. At least for a short while, or as long as we can afford/bear to hold it.

The benefits that a stable rate brings could be phenomenal.
980  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What If We Took After The Belizean Dollar? For A Short While At Least... on: March 20, 2011, 05:08:45 AM
Who decides the rate and who enforces it ?

What happens to someone if they set a different rate ? Do the bitcoin police pay a visit ?




What happens to some belizean local who pulls one over on a tourist and charges $1 USD per $1 BZD?

Probably nothing. Buyer beware.
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