Your explanation is indeed unclear. I will try to tell all the things that happen there, hoping that some of them will make it clear for you what you see and what you were asking.

When you send a transaction, if you want to pay for example 0.001BTC, you will actually spend maybe 0.00100300BTC(*) because you actually pay some transaction fees (the miners' work).
Also, if you have received 0.002BTC and that's what you are spending from, the whole 0.002BTC is "sent away", but 0.002 - 0.00100300 = 0.000997BTC will return to you, either into a change address, either into the address you were sending from, depending on your settings.

The fee amount doesn't help in your privacy. The use of change addresses does.

(*) The numbers are not accurate, the fee depends on how busy the network is and your settings. But the numbers may make it clearer then xxx and yyy  

1. We don't have a crystal ball.
2. Predictions are highly unreliable.
3. Bitcoin should grow and reach new ATH, but nobody can tell when (or if) that's going to happen.

After more than 4 years from my initial post here, I'll also sign it this time:

Electrum creates a new wallet in seconds.
Also Bitcoin Core creates the wallet.dat even without having the whole blockchain downloaded. You need to start it then stop it nicely.

Back in 2017 I've followed the steps from this tutorial: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2062488.0
Basically I installed coinomi and gave it the relevant private keys of the wallet.

Make sure you move your Bitcoin away first, to another wallet of yours, to make sure you avoid surprises.

Not all mining is PoW. There's PoS too. And btw, some call their coin distribution mining, no matter what.
There was raiblocks where one had to fill captchas for "mining". Electroneum is a "mining simulator".
There can be faucets and faucet rotators, people get money from faucets and think they are mining.
I guess that everybody want to get some cents from banners, from referrals and so on.

Most of the things called "mobile mining" are not related at all with traditional and normal PoW mining. Of course, I expect that many are pure scam.

And since OP initial question is confusing on all this, he gets answers that will confuse everybody even more.

When I had issues with Yobit, I've found out that
- support tickets are processed slow or never
- asking them on twitter attracts scammers and one has to be extra careful
- asking on a daily basis in the shoutbox on their platform can, sooner or later, attract the attention you need.

I don't know though if it's the case for you if 2 employees have already processed it, but it's still an idea.

We are all interesting, but none of us is interested.
Please stop with all these scam attempts.

Yes, printer, other USBs can be a risk.
But offline Tails still hot wallet?!? Windows can't even read it.  Can you please point me to doc/info that offline Tails is a hot wallet?

Not at all. Nowadays it's cheap to put a live OS onto a stick and do all the operations safely offline. Tails OS has Electrum on it. Handy.
Indeed, average user may (should!) create a new seed on Ledger and transfer the funds.

But what if an user wants to save some seeds like he would save paper wallets without buying a Ledger yet? If he can do it offline he's safe, isn't it? He has to write down the seed and keep at hand 1-2 addresses from the list. And for this use case, Electrum can trick somebody. It did surprise me. That's all.


Again, this was just a test I've done. I do have a Ledger and I can generate the seed with that even for "paper wallet"-like use, if I want to. Or I can just keep all my funds on Ledger.

Din cate stiu pe teritoriul Romaniei si R.Moldova nu au fost migratii semnificative de populatie (cu exceptia secuilor si sasilor in transilvania). Deci teritoriul ramane destul de reprezentativ pentru popor/populatie.
Chiar daca sovieticii poate au incercat sa aduca rusi pentru a combina populatia, nu cred ca au putut sa o faca in asa mare masura.

Deci eu cred ca moldovenii sunt la fel de romani pe ambele parti ale Prutului.


TL;DR: Propagandistii rusi mint.

Even more, the whales afford to lose. This allows them do more risky gambles, which can pay much better too.
But it's also interesting that everybody wants to get profit and everybody blames the whales if they don't get that or it's smaller, forgetting that every penny of profit comes from other trader's pocket.

Am bifat si eu actiunea, impreuna cu familia.
The more the merrier, nu?

Well, for Bitcoin you can check this: https://coinb.in/#fees
A simple and normal transaction (1 input, 2 outputs) needs about 2 cents. Of course, when the network gets more busy, the numbers increase too.

Transilvaia, Oltenia, Banat, Moldova, Bucovina, Dobrogea, R.Moldova...
Daca ne uitam in istorie, putem sa spunem fie ca toate ar trebui sa fie impreuna, fie doar cateva unite si restul nu, fie toate separat.

Banat exista si unguresc, si sarbesc.
Transivania, Banat, Bucovina au o istorie lunga sub imperiul habsburgic, pe cand Oltenia/Muntenia au fost sub turci.
Totusi sunt toate impreuna acum. Exista asemanari si diferente.
R.Moldova a fost impreuna cu Moldova pe vremea lui Stefan cel Mare, nu?

Nu sunt expert in istorie si poate unele chestii nu le stiu bine sau trunchiat, dar cred ca raspunsul la intrebarea initiala este Da.

Actually you've got the main steps for somebody to be poor, bored and probably worried about what tomorrow brings.

Yeah. I missed an important thing in my first post.
What I was doing was a test. A test for the use case one buys/holds Bitcoin before buying a Ledger. I'll add this to start.

You're right, there's clearly no point using something else when one already has Ledger.



I completely agree to this and basically this is the main reason I've made this topic.
Electrum should at least write a big warning in the seed window that the seed they generate may not work elsewhere.

I have at least one seed generated by Electrum which works just fine with Ledger.
The seeds generated by Electrum this evening were not working. So I can import them into Electrum, but I see no guarantee it can be imported in something else.

I see now their reasons, thanks for the link.

This is somewhat unexpected for me. I was doing some tests, so no funds are lost. As a matter of fact, I will even publish the seed phrase(s).
But I think that others should also know about this.

I tried to generate a Legacy wallet on Electrum (3.3. and import/restore it on Ledger (1.5.5). The seed is seed 1 (*).
All the words were fine, just at the end it tells "Recovery phrase is not valid". I tried again with Electrum same words, all is good, wallet imported and works.
I thought it may be related to the fact the old wallet I had on Ledger was SegWit, but no.

I went then to https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ and the Electrum seed was also declared invalid. After checking and unchecking there "Show entropy details", the last word of the seed was changed/corrected, see seed 2 (*).
Of course, this one works with Ledger and the addresses are not the same for the wallets from the 2 different seeds.

However, it's a big disappointment for me from Electrum. I knew that it's not 100% compatible with BIP39, but it's different when this happens to you, especially after previous attempts working.
The lesson is, probably to generate with Ian Coleman's site and use it with or without Ledger.
Thoughts?


The seeds:
seed 1: vital flavor judge caught parade anchor rifle auto twist leg wrist stage
seed 2: vital flavor judge caught parade anchor rifle auto twist leg wrist steel

---

Edit: I've forget to write this from start: it was a test for the use case one buys/holds Bitcoin before buying a Ledger. After one has a Ledger, he's going to use that Ledger.

My entire week was bad, busy and tiresome. And now this. F*#$*@ \3#$#@@(#@(#@!  
And whatever the charts are telling, downwards is not really a good direction for the price.


From $6950 to $6000 there's still some distance.
Of course, with my luck, it can be covered in a matter of minutes.  


Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0jF5R6qZY