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Hi, I had a bunch of coins on the poswallet website. I read somewhere that it was safe to leave the coins on the website and it would get switched to xsn coins. I can't log in with my old creds on the new stakenet website. Are all my coins lost?
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One question guys: are there spending limits without doing KYC? ATM withdrawal limits? I live in Europe, but can I theoretically use the card everywhere in the world? I will soon go to Egypt, and want to know if I can spend my crypto there  Looks like you have to have an app linked with the card to access any funds at all. Once you link the app to the card, the limit is 2.5k lifetime Once you get level 2, looks like you get crazy limits. US$10,000 limit per transaction US$20,000 maximum spending daily Unlimited lifetime spending US$1,000 maximum ATM withdrawal amount per transaction; 2 withdrawal limit per day My CEO has a shift (coinbase) card currently https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2228646-the-shift-card$200 daily limit ATM withdrawals $1000 daily spending limits lots of fees / not super great rates Apparently the limits on both the shift card and the Tex card isn't enough for him (he's collecting all the cards crypto cards, LOL). He says the tenx card is the best one though. Can't wait to see dividend payouts after people like him get the card. Apparently a few thousand invested early on equates to magic cards with infinite free monies |
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What is minimal amount of PAY tokens needs for get 0.5% holder reward?
No minimum friend as far as I recall. I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please. https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ? 2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ? 3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means: 104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520 (close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822) Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952 Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen: $12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward) So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year). Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required. Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all. => Why does anyone buy it at these prices ? Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here?? * Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions? * Is there any obviously error I can't spot ? * Or sth else I'm too blind to see ? I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point. To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only. Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated. You actually managed to silence the TenX fanboyz, not one of them can answer your question without admitting the project lacks the ability to make a profit for card/token holders as suggested. Well done using the truth to point out the failures of this scammy over promising under delivering project. Meantime Dr Julian still has a cult following and is the savior for one and all.  Haha no he simply got the analysis wrong and nobody has corrected him yet. Let's go through it bit by bit now. 1) I don't even know what you are asking here but no their main business isn't to get rid of cards. It is to make it so that you can spend BTC, ETH, DASH, ERC20 tokens and more through their app. This is step 1 with the ultimate goal like others mentioned to be able to spend fiat 2) LOL what kind of random assumption is this? They ran an ICO and that is what pays for the office, wages, etc etc. They said several times now the 0.5 rewards will be coming soon either end of year or early next year there is nothing hidden here. 3) First off you use a wrong # in $2.46 but I will let that slide because that isn't the biggest mistake here. Your biggest mistake in the calculations is using the circulating supply as the right number. This is wildly incorrect as devs, founders, exchanges, none of these individuals will receive the dividend. I obviously don't know how many tokens this is but simply put your calculation will be off 100%. Then after that because that is incorrect the rest is moot, but even then I couldn't understand what you were trying to do at all. It is a complete fail please re go back look at the WP and do some hwk. Because why are you even going 104m tokens x 2.46 for price justification? That is what the marketcap is it has nothing to do with payouts. Payouts are based on how much people spend and this will be distributed through the tokens that qualify which is the only math you should be doing imho. to 1) and 2) I was wondering about the weird wording, since it implied somehow that they may stop their card business, and if not it raises the question why talk about Your 3) point is complete bs, and you know it, they lie about it, if their tokens will never receive rewards why not destroy those worthless tokens, that will never receive any rewards ? Further you assume my math is wrong, but you fail to present more accurate numbers. I think you bought way too high this worthless piece of bits+bytes and you need to hype hot air to pass your losses on others. The 0.5 rewards you mention, while they say themselves they earn from the 3% merchant side only 0.25%, and can't pass 0.5%, wher edo they come from? In addition the question then remains how the company can be sustainable? Yes, for now they have all your money to travel around the world, but it will be gone one day - and then ? 104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected
To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)
Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952
Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)
So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Bad assumptions give bad results 1) 12k usd per person per year -> most ppl who get tenx card were early in crypto bussines = they got cash. I got card for 1 month. My spending was ~11k usd in last month using card. My early spending should be close to 120k-150k usd per year. Average probably should be close to 50% or average yearly salary of person using card or more like 75%. I would say it is safe to assume 30k usd per year per user. 2) You don't count total value equal to 1 year earnings never ever!. This company will not case to exist in 1 year so this assumption that company vaporizes in 1 year is extremely faulty giving huge error. Look at Tesla P/E = infinity Netflix P/E = 189 Amazon P/E = 297 Yelp P/E = 489 (P/E is Price/Earning) Average for tech companies is ~30. Good companies with good potential growth in future are 100+. So Tenx should have at least P/E=100. So after fixing base assumptions, let's fix your calculations: 104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 /100(p/e) = $2,574,668 need to be collected To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364 $30,000 * 0,005 = $150 collected (0.5% reward) So, to collect $2,574,668 TenX needs: $2,574,668 / $150 per person per year = 17164 customer using card. As far as i can know they will get about 25k working card till end of 2017. So according to this calculation price NOW should be 2.46$(value used for calculations)*25000/17164 (really working cards/amount from calculation) = 3,58USD per 1 PAY token. If they get 50k working cards value should be 7,16USD, 100k working cards 35,8 USD. 1k working cards -> 1Pay = 0.35USD  Everything now depends how many cards were shipped! This is very valuable insider info. there are 300 million ppl in crypto, rich like you, who will spent 11k per month in average? 343,289 customer years they need to justify the price you say, if they got rich customers only and company tokens can be destroyed as they never receive any rewards and the price development can catch up with BTC all the way long ? you also hype hot air in my eyes, that is far from being reasonable numbers I'm sorry for your losses, but take it as a man, you gambled/were fooled, do not try to pass it on to crypto-newbiews, that is not fair. Actually it comes even worse, no rewards at all. For a token not to be seen as a security or any other type of regulated product, there must not be any expectation of any receipt of investment returns by its holders. Therefore, we would be unable to provide any assurance that any rewards will be distributed to PAY token holders even under the updated structure and PAY token holders should not expect to receive any rewards even under the updated structure.
I feel a bit left out. I did a pretty good write up on both pros and cons that you didn't get right. It took me a really long time to fact check your post and it looks like you didn't read it  |
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I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please. https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?
We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.
1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ? 2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ? 3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means: 104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520 (close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822) Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952 Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen: $12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward) So, to collect $51,493,364,520 TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year). Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required. Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all. => Why does anyone buy it at these prices ? Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here?? * Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions? * Is there any obviously error I can't spot ? * Or sth else I'm too blind to see ? I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point. To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only. Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated. Thanks for numbering your questions 1) I think they have a physical card and a virtual card on your phone with a card number. you can use the virtual card online and prob tap to pay. I spoke with someone from china and apparently no one carries credit cards there, it's just all virtual on their phone. When you sign up for a card, I think the physical card is optional. You can get a virtual card and it costs less or it's free or something. 2) I think what they were talking about is if you withdraw money from an ATM, there is no merchant fee at the ATM. Without a merchant to charge there's no fee that TenX can kick back money to the token holders (except for maybe the 2.75 they charge?). I also think banks issuing their cards can make deals with some merchants that lower the percent taken by TenX but TenX is working on issuing it's own cards. 3) I did the math a while back and I came to a worse conclusion at first. I used 200,000,000 instead of 100,000,000 in my calculations, so I got twice the number you did. 100,000,000 is in circulation and 100,000,000 is held by TenX. Then I read that tokens on exchanges won't take part in the payout and I think (correct me if i'm wrong) the tokens held by TenX won't take part until they get distributed to employees and to other people during promotions. So I estimated maybe 50,000,000 to 80,000,000 were going to take part at first then it will grow close to 200,000,000 minus what's on the exchanges as time goes on. The 0.5% reward is what they are giving out right now. They are currently getting a banking license (scheduled at the end of 2018). With a banking license they can issue their own debit / credit cards and do the other stuff that banks do. Right now TenX uses a bank to issue their debit cards so they get a smaller chunk of the ~3% merchant fees. The 3% fees are split between the card issuing bank, visa and the bank taking the money. In TenX's case they get a percent of what the card issuing bank gets. When I search online for credit cards, I see a lot of credit cards that have a 2% cash back on them. I'm guessing TenX can get up to 2% and the remaining 1% is split between the bank taking the money and visa. So it's not unreasonable to think the 0.5% can increase significantly. I doubt it will / can go beyond 2% though. I believe coinbase has a debit card and it's pretty popular. You can spend bitcoin and with a few uncommon modifications, you can spend ethereum. The daily limits are pretty low though. TenX does not charge anything to go from crypto to fiat (I think coinbase charges at least 1.5%). I think when you sell your crypto, TenX finds the best price for you on a number of different exchanges instead of just one exchange so you get a better conversion price on top of that. TenX has a few tokens that work on top of Eth and BTC in beta. Even if the TenX card charges 1% to use their debit card, it's still better than the best alternative i've seen so far. Right now TenX is not planning on charging for people or exchanges to use Comit (An Exchange protocol they are making like 0X only better because if you look into it, Comit can find better prices via a protocol like the routing protocol "Open Shortest Path First"). TenX is not even planning to use TenX as gas in the protocol. I doubt coin holders would get anything from Comit other than deflation if Pay tokens are used as gas like 0x. I'm also looking at the spending habits of some people I know who were early crypto investors. They have crypto debit cards that charge them when they use it and they only complain about the low spending limits. I think TenX limits are higher. I won't go into the 0.1% cash back (in pay tokens) to the card holders because I think that's a wash (money going out and money going back in). I view it as owning dividends of a debit card company while also owning dividends from their incomplete projects that are similar to Omasie go and ripple / coinbase / 0x. If anyone would like to pay it forward I have a question. What is a Visa program manager? I heard about it a few days / weeks ago and asked about it but no one answered. From a google search it sounds like it's just a step in complying to banking regs. Does it do anything else? Super thanks to anyone who answers this. |
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What is the purpose of this project other than POS and POW rewards? Seriously I can't find anything other than the rewards and how they talk about how they want to be a fast payment method...?
Pay token is an ethereum token so there's no POS or POW rewards. .5% of all spending that occurs on the debit card gets divided among all the pay tokens as ethereum except for the pay tokens on exchanges and I think the pay tokens that tenx holds. I think the card is available in europe and asia? The card is scheduled for release in the United States at the end of this month or early december (soft schedule). It lets you spend BTC, ETH, EC20 tokens, Dash and maybe a few others using the card and an app. .1% in pay tokens goes to the person spending money on their tenx card. They're building a protocol that is going to be a bridge between exchanges banks and tenx card holders. They aren't going to charge people money to use the protocol and they're planning on making money by being the first one on the network. I suspect that if governments push tenx to be something other than a coin that pays dividends, you might see pay tokens used in the network somehow or maybe voting rights on something. Tenx is currently working on a banking license right now too. They said it would take around a year to complete. This allows them to issue cards themselves and pocket more of the 2-3% debit card merchant fees that happen when you swipe the card. I think Julian said they aren't interested in loaning out money and other stuff they can do with a banking license right now. They also haven't mentioned what they will do with the increased revenue. If they will give it to the token holders, the people who get the debit card or reinvest in tenx. |
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Julian said somewhere that being a program manager is no big deal, so they did not want to announce it as a big deal. Of course other companies announce it as a big deal, as they don't even have a working product yet... TenX is number one and I don't think any other company will take over. Next year will be a successfull year for all PAY hodlers. What does a program manager mean? |
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PotCoin was on Colbert Report https://youtu.be/RZxGMLW_1Nw?t=53I'm impressed with the marketing. can't wait to see this story spread among the old daily show cast and see even crazier stunts from potcoin.com LOL |
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Yeah, both Wavecrest and Gibraltar news are moving the price I heard Wavecrest is going to post that they are partnered with token sometime in the next 24 hours Also token on Shapeshift now |
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If i travel to US , would the tokencard not work? It's not international?
from mel on slack: If you are a non-US citizen your TokenCard will work just fine if you visit the US. TokenCards aren't available to US customers because we'd require a whole set of licenses LOL guys, I don't see how this is difficult to understand. posting this a 2nd time |
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This may have been answered;
I'm in the US if I'm in the snapshot, and well I'm unable to claim my card - will that card be held for me essentially until it is allowed in the US? Or will it be another snapshot later on type of thing.
You might get an answer from their official Reddit forum here >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/TokenCard/I'm also a US holder in the top 1000 and would love to know what happens to poor suckers like us. I checked out their official reddit but they had no answer there either. Yeah, during that announcement, mel clarified in a Q and A session on slack. I asked s similar question and here was the response: @awaran If you are a non-US citizen your TokenCard will work just fine if you visit the US. TokenCards aren't available to US customers because we'd require a whole set of licenses I have no idea how they can tell if you are a US citizen or not or if you can get the card shipped to the US, esp since the payment is going to be done in crypto and it's a debit card not a credit card (can they run a credit check?). I also don't know if they will turn a blind eye and just let some slip through. It would be really cool to have in the US though. the first functional debit card running on crypto and usable in the states, LOL, I'd get so much props from friends I think there was an agreement everyone's going to start using reddit more and less slack at the end of the Q and A but generally there won't be publishing a lot of hype until the card is out. There were no hints on what the big announcement will be other than it wasn't about the top 1000 getting cards. There was talk about some people trolling and splitting their token into smaller wallets and getting a few debit cards. I'm guessing that's why they made it the top 1000 wallets instead. |
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