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1  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 19, 2010, 09:17:12 PM
MtGox: 100% Chargeback protection from moneybookers.com for webstore merchant accounts can be arranged, see http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=m_fraudcontrol .  

Cash Payment Systems eliminating charge backs:  In US is paynearme.com  (pay near me) and Internationally ukash.com



Would Bitcoin be a unique/licensed download product?  Each key is definitely unique, and the key is uniquely assigned as property owned by the key holder.  Moneybookers.com do not accept merchants from unlicensed download industry, see http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=merchant ,  as unlicensed product download is just a bunch of non-unique identical digital copies of a certain kind, which is not the case with Bitcoins.  Bitcoin keys being unique, would provide prove in the block chain database whether the unique numbered product was delivered or not.

Another elimination of risk of charge backs is a cash system called Paynearme.com http://www.paynearme.com/merchants/faqs but is only available to US customers.  Another cash system which should eliminate charge backs and where merchants may sign up, is called Ukash and is available internationally.  http://www.ukash.com .
2  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 17, 2010, 11:00:57 PM
gumtree: Is there a way to automate this?

If they do not have an api, my programming abilities are limited and I would not in the position to comment.
3  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 17, 2010, 10:06:36 PM
When you sign up with currency fair, your account's first funding (local transfer in USD, EUR, AUD, NZD, etc., etc. - usually free) has to come from one of your own bank accounts (via local transfer at 0.00 cost).

After that funding, or transfers in (or paying customers) may be from third parties by doing local transfers to the different Currency Fair accounts in there local jurisdictions (USD, EUR, AUD, NZD, etc., etc.).  The destination Currency Fair account is used as a reference to allocate these incoming funds to the correct Currency Fair user account.  MtGox might implement a unique random amount of cents to be added to the transferred amounts to allocate third party transfers to his Currency Fair account to his different user base:  Say at any specific day User A and User B wants to transfer USD100 to MtGox at the same time:  MtGox would request User A to transfer USD100.17 and User B to transfer USD100.73.  The amount showing up into MtGox's Currency Fair account as USD100.73 would indicate that User B has done a successful third party transfer at that time to the MtGox's Currency Fair account.

For transfers out:  Members send their LOCAL (USD, EUR, AUD, NZD, etc., etc.) banking details to MtGox, and gets added as beneficiaries into MtGox's Currency Fair account.  When a user wants to withdraw from MtGox, MtGox sends money to the user's bank account via local transfer in the correct currency, all with the help of Currency Fair's built-in functionality.  There is a cost related to transfers out, this is within reason, in order for Currency Fair to run a profitable business.

Here are some current conversion rates, what you would get when selling your 1 USD =, 1 AUD =, or 1 EUR = (compare to current effective credit card conversion rates?):

1 USD = 3.6520 AED1 AUD = 3.6175 AED1 EUR = 5.1030 AED
1 USD = 1.0040 AUD1 AUD = 0.9979 CAD1 EUR = 1.4029 AUD
1 USD = 1.0068 CAD1 AUD = 0.9440 CHF1 EUR = 1.4082 CAD
1 USD = 0.9531 CHF1 AUD = 0.7056 EUR1 EUR = 1.3312 CHF
1 USD = 0.7118 EUR1 AUD = 0.6166 GBP1 EUR = 0.8697 GBP
1 USD = 0.6222 GBP1 AUD = 7.642 HKD1 EUR = 10.780 HKD
1 USD = 7.714 HKD1 AUD = 1.3051 NZD1 EUR = 1.8412 NZD
1 USD = 1.3171 NZD1 AUD = 2.7502 PLN1 EUR = 3.8785 PLN
1 USD = 2.7754 PLN1 AUD = 1.2776 SGD1 EUR = 1.8027 SGD
1 USD = 1.2896 SGD1 AUD = 0.9849 USD1 EUR = 1.3898 USD
1 USD = 6.774 ZAR1 AUD = 6.708 ZAR1 EUR = 9.466 ZAR

See live bids/offers now at:  
http://www.currencyfair.com/view-live-forex-market
4  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 17, 2010, 10:03:38 PM
I don't see how currency fair helps? They don't let you transfer to particular people.
You can add a third party beneficiary bank account, see http://www.currencyfair.com/help.jsp?id=4

Even if yours is a USD bank account, the transfer out, to the third party beneficiary may be in any of the available currencies (and an order should be able to be filled at best available offers - if your funds are still in USD and they need to be sent to a EUR bank account for example).
5  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 16, 2010, 04:46:47 PM
I got liqpay to work finally so we will be using that. I should have it hooked up tuesday.

It seems like they only support fund withdrawal to Visa cards (not Master/Diners/AMEX) if you are non-Russian/non-Ukranian, and only effected in 3 to 6 days.
6  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 16, 2010, 10:40:20 AM
That's the good news, Bitcoin as a product IS supported for payment through CurrencyFair, in any of the mentioned currencies!  If you do not want to buy them through MtGox, then you could add the Bitcoin seller's local banking details to your beneficiaries directly - if he wants to give you his local banking details.  If security is a concern - individuals can always set up a receive-only local banking account that is always kept at zero balance by transferring your received funds to a different account as they are received, in order to avoid fraudulent withdrawal.

As an internet commodity, like those Bitcoins being exchanged (bought/sold) on MtGox for USD fiat currency, Bitcoin is a product.

Unfortunately/fortunately, Bitcoins might not be considered, by any legal entity, as a currency as it is not backed up by a promise to deliver anything by any authority/jurisdiction/issuing body - but only has electronic cryptographic certificated intrinsic value.  

Maybe Wirtland could issue OpenTransaction blinded tokens (token = promise to deliver x) as a currency, and promise to deliver Bitcoin cryptographic certificates in exchange.  Unfortunately this will not be a national currency, as Wirtland as a micronation has no physical location/jurisdiction/sovereignty recognized by any other nations yet, and is thus not yet recognized as a sovereign nation?!?
7  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 16, 2010, 08:25:06 AM
LOW COST INTERNATIONAL FUNDING SOLUTION:  Add MtGox's banking details as beneficiary in your http://www.CurrencyFair.com account.  CurrencyFair is a Peer-to-Peer international currency trading market, where exchange rates even lower than interbank rates are possible, your rate will depend on how much of a hurry you are in, as there is also bid-and-offer queuing possibility.  Only legal digital electronic cryptographic certificated Bitcoin commodity purchase payments will be allowed in accordance with Terms of Service.

At current volumes (and the odd 5% saving on Paypal commissions), MtGox might charge 2.5% in, and 2.5% out fees for monetary currency USD, EUR, AUD, SGD, CAD, CHF, NZD, HKD, UAE & ZAR transfers, with which electronic cryptographic certificated Bitcoin commodity were bought or sold.  Transfer Payments to and from MtGox will be manually however (don't know if it can be automated).

CurrencyFair however is closed for trading over weekends like all major currency markets - transfers however is effected within 2 business days, depending on individual bank clearing times.  No transaction reversals at CurrencyFair.  Funding in USD, EUR, AUD, SGD, CAD, CHF, NZD, HKD, UAE & ZAR.  Conversion between all (USD, EUR, AUD, SGD, CAD, CHF, NZD, HKD, UAE & ZAR) and transfer out in all (USD, EUR, AUD, SGD, CAD, CHF, NZD, HKD, UAE & ZAR).
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Announcing: BitLaundry -- decorrelated payment service on: September 16, 2010, 07:54:12 AM
In mybitcoin.com 's terms of service agreement, it is stated that a historical transaction record of an account is kept.  This information combined with the Bitcoin block chain, may provide a complete transaction path of a Bitcoin passing through mybitcoin.com - maybe even if you do not even spend your own Bitcoin from mybitcoin.com (that was originally sent to mybitcoin.com).

See:  mybitcoin.com Terms of Service Agreement when signing up:  

"9.2 Unless ordered by a Court of competent jurisdiction, MYBITCOIN LLC shall not reveal User's contact or identifying information or transaction history to any third party."

It becomes clear that whenever something is centralized, anonymity is lost.
9  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Anonymity on: September 16, 2010, 07:48:37 AM
Added anonymity, but not recommended due to loss of transaction data vulnerability:

- If the Bitcoin block can be fractionalized amongst active nodes (nodes gracefully exiting the network to allow for data passing) with plenty of backup data overlapping amongst the nodes - but no one node knows the full block chain, it will also increase anonymity.  But this may cause vulneribility in the system database in case of node failure - this route is not recommended.  If a majority of nodes in one geographic location holds the only copy of a particular section of the database, and that geographic area suffers a catastrophe, it might wipe out some/all Bitcoin wealth completely.
10  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Letter to the EFF on: September 13, 2010, 12:39:36 PM
Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact

I have choosen to use mybitcoin, which are essential online bitcoin account. Very easy to use. I just need to give them the password and the username.

Safe idea, Kiba.  That way, if it does not get claimed by the eff - you did not automatically donate your coins to Bitcoinmail.com when you wanted to donate it to the eff (if the eff turned out to be unthankful/ignorant/not checking the spam folder from time to time ?!?)
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Announcing: BitLaundry -- decorrelated payment service on: September 12, 2010, 05:06:44 PM
Could a built-in anonymizing function for Bitcoin enable each transaction to pass through a public pool of Bitcoins - with Bitcoins from address and Bitcoins to address (same transaction) to be a different set?
12  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Letter to the EFF on: September 12, 2010, 12:44:20 PM
Probably just by sending everybody's Bitcoin commodity donations to the "eff" via Bitcoinmail to: membership at eff dot org  .... will introduce them to Bitcoins when they claim the donation (having to actually download the Bitcoin client app to receive the donation - and sell the Bitcoins for national currency - through one of the Bitcoin commodity exchanges if national currency might still be needed by them to conduct business in the conventional economy - alternatively they could embrace Bitcoin commodity and use Bitcoin commodity, as payment in like, if they can on there part again, reach agreement with their trading partners).  https://www.eff.org/about/contact
13  Economy / Economics / Re: Definition of a Commodity & Are Bitcoins a Commodity? on: September 09, 2010, 11:12:15 AM
Bitcoin has intrinsic value = Commodity?

It's intrinsic value is the ownership of a mathematical solution key to a complex mathematical problem.  Other uses:  If extracted from the collective, it may be use to certify authenticity or use for encryption purposes.  It has intellectual property attached intrinsically.

Bitcoin is not representing anything of value (Not even a promise for repayment) = Not a currency?

A considerable amount of effort (complexity of problems solved to manufacture Bitcoin intellectual property) goes into producing Bitcoins (costs in CPU running time roughly equal to its intrinsic value - to counter act economic disparity which will cause opportunity profit for producing Bitcoins, bringing everything back into economic equilibrium) = Commodity?
14  Economy / Marketplace / Re: We accept Bitcoins on: August 27, 2010, 01:37:44 PM
Also note that numerous jurisdictions (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender) will be excluded from the benefits of Bitcoin should it be called a currency (and thus be a foreign currency as opposed to the national currency, and thus not legal tender currency for payment purposes).  If Bitcoin is officially viewed as a commodity - it may be bartered with, in these (and all other) jurisditions and thus will have universal use.  The fact of calling Bitcoin a currency and not a commodity, may have a hindrance on international use (some jurisdictions may forbid or restrict PAYMENT, but not BARTER, made other than by legal tender) when Bitcoin establishes itself in the mainstream market.  For an interesting parallel consider the Islamic gold Shariah coin (with intrinsic metal commodity value, see http://www.islamicmint.com/news_articles/articles/statement_castineria.html paragraph 7.) in comparison to Bitcoin (with its intrinsic mathematical solution's value).

More currency, barter, legal tender info (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency) describes how a Central Bank may have sole control over a nation's CURRENCY (as opposed to foreign currency that are sometimes specifically lawfully excluded as payment substitute for the national currency).  Central Banks generally does not have sole control over COMMODITIES.

Exchange control also has legal implications when dealing in foreign currency (currency other than the national currency) in some jurisdictions (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls).

When owning the keys to unlock a mathematical problem, it should constitute a store of value in the form of COMMODITY ownership of instant access to a mathematical sollution to a complicated problem.
15  Economy / Marketplace / Re: We accept Bitcoins on: August 26, 2010, 10:53:44 PM
Bitcoins when viewed as a commodity may be utilised for barter exchange at any of the following sites (opening up avenues to a whole new electronic barter economy with Bitcoin as intermediary for real tangible goods or services - thus Bitcoin as a commodity exchange medium could be fulfilling a gap in the inefficiency of traditional bartering - where you have to find someone that wants what you have and have what you want - Now Bitcoin as an exchanged commodity could be the intermediary in barter transactions!!)

Here is some of the top Barter sites where Bitcoin as an electronic coin commodity may be exchanged for just about anything, and just about anything may be exchanged for Bitcoins!! :

www.community-exchange.org
www.barterthing.com
www.favorpals.com
www.swaptreasures.com
www.ubarterexchange.com

So maybe we should launch Bitcoin into the Barter economy as well?
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