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Do we have to do anything in regards to the hearing in Texas? I received a vague email stating that I should follow the requested action in the attachment but the attachment looked more like a protest filing than a "please include me, i'm desperate" thing
This process is wildly confusing...
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I had been waiting for a $2200 cash withdraw since November 2013. They kept giving me lines about "changes in our withdraw process has caused delays and we are working through the backlog of withdraws."
Any chance I will be getting this money?
https://www.mtgox.com/They have a login to check your account balance. I also made a withdrawal request before they went bankrupt and my wallet shows a balance of $0.0025, so there's a chance gox is significantly understating it's liabilities if they're not accounting for they USD in "withdrawal" |
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Email notification came through just a little while ago.
Very happy this is finally over... Disappointed I didn't even get to mine with my K16s but it seems to be for the best at this point.
Goodluck to everyone!
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Fully Assembled: $133.5 *25% = $33.75 It is 25% of the $60 assembly charge it looks like, so the $35 PCB + components aren't factored into the refund. Maybe we'll get some back on those parts in the future, but I'm not counting on it. Because you got fully assembled versus DIY kit, you do get a 100% refund of that assembly cost, which is $10 per board ($133.5-123.5). So for those of us that did the fully assembled unit option, it comes out to $25 per board (25% of $60 + $10). Then you get 100% refund for the shipping and the $15 setup fee for hosting if you chose hosting. Ah thanks! I was able to reconcile to the refund amount using your math above. Anyone pull the trigger yet and accept? On another note, this chapter in my life is about to come to a close and I can say its been a bittersweet ending to this long long battle. Honestly thought I wouldn't receive a penny of my initial investment back. |
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Numbers aren't adding up as I thought they would:
Fully Assembled: $133.5 *25% = $33.75
Hosting: $15 *100% = $15
Total/Unit = $48.75
Conversion $48.75/126.61 = .385041 per unit
I've received an offer for .315931 per unit
Thoughts?
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What date and email address did your receive a response from steamboat? Nothing arrived in my inbox
Same email address as ones you've received in the past with the subject(s): 11-2 update, Assembly Update, Update. This one says "Refund Update". Post time was 4:11pm Eastern (perhaps '411' as in information). Found it.. thx! |
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What date and email address did your receive a response from steamboat? Nothing arrived in my inbox
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Good point about legal advise. If a lawyer saw a legit list (with BTC signatures) and the amounts owed, maybe they would be willing to take it on, seeing the total amount owed. At least it may help Steamboat pick up the pace.
Lawyers are parasites, a class action lawsuit would leave us with 60% of whatever steamboat is able to come up with and would likely be repaid in USD vs. our $125/BTC exchange rate locked in during September. Lawsuits are also slow, likely wouldn't see any results for another 6-months to a year. IMO legal route should be the last and final resort. I.e, when Steamboat and his minions disappear, after John K releases his identity. For those users who actually know Steamboat (we're glaring at you unaccepted) you may want to consider tapping your pal on the shoulder and advise a status update. The duration inbetween status updates is growing, along with this crowds anger and frustration. Both are easily mitigated by a short and sweet update.
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It's possible that he's mining the BTC to pay the refunds and plans on giving us all of his profits.
that's the only thing I can think of right now. I don't care how complicated it is to refund a bunch of people, it shouldn't take over a month. The act of refunding isn't the complication... it's the recovery of costs that takes time. If he's giving us a fixed conversion, and we're bullish on bitcoins... shouldn't we be supporting his effort rather than getting our panties in an epic wad? I want my money back, bitcoins or not, but if I have to wait another 6 months to get my investment back at a conversion rate of ~120, then i'm all for it. |
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Nothing gets done during the Holidays... Go drink some Eggnog and relax for a little bit
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This is a killer deal.... Good work SB and crew!
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I am getting it, i'm simply presented a what-if case scenario. I'm hard pressed to believe that steamboat priced supplies/hosting in $ but demanded payment in BTC, only to convert it back to $. That would be the most inefficient way to run a business and given Steamboat's reputation I would be shocked if that's how he carried it out.
if you can't see that he's not only making margin on a product he did not deliver AND had this margin appreciate well over 600% in 5 months as highly unethical, you got something special in store for you at some point in your future.
Bitpay does this by default (converting BTC to USD) and I'm fairly certain they don't do both (%BTC and %USD) as that would be a nightmare to facilitate. SB expressed that he needed the USD to pay for multiple parts of the process, so unless he fronted tens of thousands of $USD for the purpose of holding on to BTC, our BTC was converted to $USD at the time of checkout on the assembly site. Good point, I did not realize this. I stand corrected |
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Pricing- Chips:
Avalon ASIC chips may be ordered for BTC0.086. This fee is due immediately upon order placement.
- Assembly:
The total price for assembly is $95. This includes $35 for the PCB and board related components, and $60 for assembly, to be paid in BTC.
- Assembly and DIY Kit:
The DIY kit and fully assembled PCB are $123.5, to be paid in BTC.
- Fully Assembled Unit:
The fully assembled unit, including all necessary hardware, is $133.5, to be paid in BTC.
- Hosting:
Hosting fees include 8% of miner revenue production, plus $.06kw/h for electricity used. A setup fee of $15 per unit is necessary to help defray the initial infrastructure costs.
- Testing:
Free with the purchase of a fully assembled unit.
* Assembly, Assembly and DIY Kit, and Fully Assembled Unit prices do not include the price of Avalon ASIC chips, and are not due at the time of chip purchase.
Very first post of this thread- Notice how the pricing for everything except chips is listed as USD? That means you paid USD, and your return will be USD. Case fucking closed. If you cannot wrap you mind around this, you shouldn't have had any business in this group buy in the first place. You will not be receiving the same amount of BTC sent to him. It's that plain and simple. Constantly bitching about it isnt going to change anything. If you paid $133.5 in BTC, you will be refunded no more than $133.5 in BTC. Here's an interesting thought though, we gave steamboat $15 for hosting per K16. That was .15BTC, paid as BTC and likely is still being held as BTC. This .15BTC is now worth $90, does steamboat still return $15 and keep $65 in profit just from holding the coins for 5 months? That's the issue I have and I expect steamboat will share in the compensation for this type of "loss" as he's stated that we won't be punished for the delays. You're still not getting it. All orders for assembly, regardless of "type" were processed in USD. All of the BTC was converted to USD at the time of purchase. He had costs associated with hosting, shipping, etc. that were in USD so all assembly orders, invoices, etc. processed through the site are denominated in USD. That being said, I think those who paid for hosting should be compensated for the past two+ weeks of lost mining revenue... that is squarely on SB. He knew that chaining would not be feasible/possible over a month ago and orders were executed out of order because hosting was not yet ready. Honestly, the units could have been mining in "makeshift" conditions quickly/easily while the "world-class facilities" were being constructed. Perhaps this is the case and he has your BTC? idk. Those who are waiting for refunds probably should expect a bit more back than 25% since it's taken months to process your refunds, but expecting BTC back in the amount you sent is a pipe dream. I am getting it, i'm simply presented a what-if case scenario. I'm hard pressed to believe that steamboat priced supplies/hosting in $ but demanded payment in BTC, only to convert it back to $. That would be the most inefficient way to run a business and given Steamboat's reputation I would be shocked if that's how he carried it out. if you can't see that he's not only making margin on a product he did not deliver AND had this margin appreciate well over 600% in 5 months as highly unethical, you got something special in store for you at some point in your future. |
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Pricing- Chips:
Avalon ASIC chips may be ordered for BTC0.086. This fee is due immediately upon order placement.
- Assembly:
The total price for assembly is $95. This includes $35 for the PCB and board related components, and $60 for assembly, to be paid in BTC.
- Assembly and DIY Kit:
The DIY kit and fully assembled PCB are $123.5, to be paid in BTC.
- Fully Assembled Unit:
The fully assembled unit, including all necessary hardware, is $133.5, to be paid in BTC.
- Hosting:
Hosting fees include 8% of miner revenue production, plus $.06kw/h for electricity used. A setup fee of $15 per unit is necessary to help defray the initial infrastructure costs.
- Testing:
Free with the purchase of a fully assembled unit.
* Assembly, Assembly and DIY Kit, and Fully Assembled Unit prices do not include the price of Avalon ASIC chips, and are not due at the time of chip purchase.
Very first post of this thread- Notice how the pricing for everything except chips is listed as USD? That means you paid USD, and your return will be USD. Case fucking closed. If you cannot wrap you mind around this, you shouldn't have had any business in this group buy in the first place. You will not be receiving the same amount of BTC sent to him. It's that plain and simple. Constantly bitching about it isnt going to change anything. If you paid $133.5 in BTC, you will be refunded no more than $133.5 in BTC. Here's an interesting thought though, we gave steamboat $15 for hosting per K16. That was .15BTC, paid as BTC and likely is still being held as BTC. This .15BTC is now worth $90, does steamboat still return $15 and keep $65 in profit just from holding the coins for 5 months? That's the issue I have and I expect steamboat will share in the compensation for this type of "loss" as he's stated that we won't be punished for the delays. |
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SB made it VERY clear that everything was paid for in $USD, BTC was simply the transfer medium. It's on your invoice, it's on your LiquidSynergy account, it's in the opening post, it's everywhere. Refunds will be in $USD for the same amount and will be transferred back via. BTC. The BTC price spike is making people illogically hopeful. Is it true that SB's delay in refunds has "cost you money"? Maybe, if anything you can be upset about the delay, (or his non-communication, or his poor choices), but you're disillusioned if you think you're getting back the amount of BTC you paid. Also, I'm looking to buy a few extra boards. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336754.0It's not that clear since we actually paid in BTC. The argument can be made both ways but I think it's fair for Steamboat to pay us back in BTC, but not at current market value and not at fullly converted price. He's made a killing holding a portion bitcoins for almost 6-months (remembering hosting and shipping fees have no initial "cash" outlay and he HAS MADE MARGIN ON THE ASSEMBLY THAT WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED) If anyone does some quick math on how much money steamboat has made since April, you will not feel bad for how hard he's worked (rightfully earned his "keep"). I'm not nervous or worried that steamboat will come to the table will an attractive resolution. Nothing he's done to date indicates he is willing to ruin his rep by ripping off the majority of this group |
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I don't remember what the value was exactly, but say you paid $130 for everything and BTC was $100 at the time, you paid 1.3 BTC, right? Now that BTC is $220, you can expect 0.59 BTC back for your $130.
In BTC, that is what is called losing value.
I am hoping it falls somewhere in between, not exactly full refund in BTCs, but more than we paid in terms of dollars. I suspect SB and Co made margin on the equipment purchases that they kept in the form of BTCs from our payment. To refund us in $ face values of the equipment they purchased without compensation for holding the margin (in BTCs) at current market valuation wouldn't be the best business practice. We should share in that risk factor IMO and I hope that's part of the reason why it's taking a long time for them to refund us. Assuming they made 10% on the assembly/hosting fees, then they're looking at .1 BTC per $100 of customer spend (assuming my memory of BTC conversion is accurate at the time of the assembly/hosting payment deadline) In today's BTCs, that's a $13, or 130%, appreciation per $100 of customer spend in 4-months without supplying a hosted product. More than enough to refund all of the customers who never received assembly/hosting and 3% remaining to keep for themselves as a handling "fee" |
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Refund received... bittersweet ending
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This has escalated quickly... not sure why there is so much stress. You will get your coins back, relax....
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Why are we not pursing a full refund for all batches?
You need to re-read the email. If everyone requests a refund, then all batches will be refunded. "We will process any orders for those that wish to continue with assembly, and our policy of not forcing anyone to accept a refund still stands." This is a group buy, by participating you need to accept that you're somewhat bound by the decisions of the group. I think from his email it is clear he is recommending we ask for refunds (as he has for his chips). You're missing the point, why is delivery even an option when it's becoming more and more liekly the chips will never arrive? Just seems odd with all the management of the refund process AND also managing the distribution of chips if they arrive (probably in Jan'14) that will have negative ROI... If 90% ask for refunds (which I expect it to be), why not just refund all batches to the original senders bitcoin address instead of monkeying around for dozens of hours trying to process everyone's individual needs? The odds are 1 batch will be stuck with a small group of trolls/afks not caring about a refund at all. The extra 5% commission on 1 batch of delivery definitely wouldn't outweigh the work involved with processing all these each refund individually so i'm not sure why steamboat is going this route, I sure as hell wouldn't. |
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Why are we not pursing a full refund for all batches? It's clear this deal is dead,why not cut our losses and get the f!@# out of this awful situation?
Steamboat,
Demand a full refund for all batches and hold the bitcoin in escrow while the refund process is cleared up. Any customer who doesn't submit a refund request within 12-months from now should lose their coins. Keeping the option open for delivery of chips does not benefit anyone but Yifu and yourself!!!!
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