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I asume you are not a lawyer but there are some elements that won’t comply with this when platform is launched (lack of control -we can choose not to participate or which property to invest-, also pooling of income..) .
In any case they are regulating it, so i do not see whats your point. I am pretty sure what they say is true.
No I'm not lawyer, I'm a RE professional who has to deal with law on everyday basis. Are you a lawyer? I kind of doubt that since you confuse "management of the property" with a possibility of choosing which property to invest in. These are two completely different things.
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"Yet,(...) the development of properties and operating commercial buildings by offering digital tokens that represent a share in the company, the regulator states that this would constitute securities under the SFA." e.i. Securities and Futures Act. The above was already known in November 2017. Yet they waited 5 months to share it with coin holders ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) )) source: https://www.ccn.com/singapores-central-bank-issues-new-guidelines-ico-securities-laws/FYI: REAL token do not represent a share in the company. They are payment/utility tokens to be used in the platform. There are some token holders like me that study the case and would have seen that immediately. Well, in A GUIDE TO DIGITAL TOKEN OFFERINGS issued by Monetary Authority of Singapore under "Digital tokens which constitute capital markets products" we read: "2.3.3 a unit in a collective investment scheme (“CIS”), where it represents a right or interest in a CIS, or an option to acquire a right or interest in a CIS. " and " Under section 2(1) of the SFA, a “collective investment scheme” is an arrangement in respect of any property bearing all of the following characteristics: participants have no day-to-day control over management of the property; property is managed as a whole by or on behalf of a manager; participants’ contributions and profits or income of the arrangement from which payments are to be made to the participants are pooled; and purpose or effect (or purported purpose or effect) of the arrangement is to enable participants to participate in or receive profits, income or other payments or returns arising from acquisition, holding, management or disposal of, the exercise of, the redemption of, or the expiry of any right, interest, title or benefit in the property or any part of the property. "
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"Yet,(...) the development of properties and operating commercial buildings by offering digital tokens that represent a share in the company, the regulator states that this would constitute securities under the SFA." e.i. Securities and Futures Act. The above was already known in November 2017. Yet they waited 5 months to share it with coin holders ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) )) source: https://www.ccn.com/singapores-central-bank-issues-new-guidelines-ico-securities-laws/
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While I generally agree with your approach, you can't include the tokens reserved for future sale in your calculation.
I didn't. My bad...you're right. Serves me right for trying to read through it from my phone! No worries ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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and with ether at 1350, this is over 33 million. And if ether is higher, does $5 not seem feasible? My reasoning was if the price broke out exuberantly like Litecoin or Ripple, for no apparent reason whatsoever, and they decided to cash in
Putting it this way, it's possible
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While I generally agree with your approach, you can't include the tokens reserved for future sale in your calculation.
I didn't. Also, they revised their budget to be a fixed $3 million, but my guess is that this will change again since the value of ETH had gone up so much.
They did revise it, however it's not fixed $3 million, but 30% of total contributed ETH and no less than $3 million.
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They will sell at 1200. As it is the trendline
Here comes 5 dollar REAL yeehaa. I have only had to wait like 4 months lol
I take your comment as a joke, but there are many people here who actually believe REAL could be worth 5 dollars, so let me make some calculations. First basic facts: - REAL received 37049 ETH - They minted 19.717.288 tokens. Out of those, 25% is a reserve for future projects. 51% went to investors, 4% were bounties, and 20% went to the team. The team cannot sell their tokens for a year time, but since they are way behind the schedule.... i'll come to that. As for today we've got (51%+4%)*19.717.288 tokens minted. That is 10.844.508,4 tokens at disposal. Out of their 37049 ETH, they will invest 70%, that is 25934,3 ETH. With ETH valued at $1000 that accounts to $25.934.300 If they manage to launch their platform AND buy a property before the team is able to sell their REAL, the value (when 1ETH=$1000) is ~2,39, however taken their policy into consideration it makes much more sense to value REAL not in USD, but in ETH, BUT ONLY BEFORE PROPERTY ACQUISITION. Ceteris paribus 1 REAL is worth approx. 0,0023914 ETH (25934,3 ETH / 10844508,4 REAL) or 0,0017537 ETH (25934,3 ETH / 14787966 REAL ) if they acquire properties after the team can sell their tokens (after that the number of disposable REAL tokens will increase from 10.844.508,4 to 14.787.966). After they buy the properties, increase of ETH value means decrease of REAL value in ETH (meaning that value in $ should remain the same)
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Is the REAL token is considered a security?
No, it is not. They accepted US citizens, investors. Real tokens don't give dividends only the other internal one giving. They dodged sec like that. No, they did not accept US citizens.
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FYI - Melissa just answered many of my questions privately, so they are still communicating even though the Telegram group is closed. Since it was a private conversation, I don't want to post it here publicly without permission. I still have concerns, but I at least wanted to mention that they are listening.
Melissa asked that I not copy/paste the conversation here because she's concerned it could lead to confusion, which would just feed the trolls.
That said, she gave me permission to answer similar questions here if I know the answer.
I've got a few questions then: - is the delay in platform deployment caused by not meeting goals, or did they come across legal problems that were not foreseen? - are they already selling their ETH benefitting from good price, or are they willing to wait till property acqusition?
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So new roadmap is out, what do you think? Let's be honest, I was expeting those dates, a company can't set up legal and liquidity things in just a couple of month. I can surely wait, better if they take time to make things right
I'm very surprised how calm investors are. Everytime I come here I read posts just like yours (let's give them time, it's complicated, they're working hard etc.). As far as I remember, in mid September they claimed to launch beta in November. Now it's almost December and they say thay will launch it in February. Actually I'm almost sure, that they first said October, and November was to witness their's first property aquisition. They claim they're behind the schedule because of not meeting their ICO goals, but I just cannot imagine how people are willing to believe these excuses. To create a web site which is not that complicated it should take no more than 300 hours of work. They almost don't update. They left bitcointalk as soon as they realized that some people here can actually think sober and ask difficult questions. They claim they have to establish a company in Singapur, whereas 2 months ago they claimed they are already established there. For past month instead of giving updates and working on the platform, they posted about their travels to Singapur and Australia to attend some summits that have nothing to do with real estate. How can you still say they're doing their job just fine?
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If these were tests, 2 tokens would be enough.
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Hope they will announce the budget of investment this week and we can decide on REAL a bit more easier.
I'm pretty sure they are making it a priority now, so I'm hoping it'll be available this week as well. Yup. Atleast come with a clear statement on how things are going. They've been sharing info on Telegram. I wouldn't say they are the most active communicators, but they aren't silent. Yeah, I have see the devs and support team have little activity in this forum. It seems they transfered to Telegram and usually use telegram or twitter to announce or reply the question of the investors. Beside that, the current price of Real token really good to buy a lot, you should not to miss this chance, I think current price really the bottom price of this token. (1/3 = ICO price, USD rates) I'll try to explain where the price comes from. Based on how many ether they gathered (37049 ETH) and how many tokens investors received (10055817 REAL) we get a price of 0,00369 eth per real. If they were to invest all $11.153.126 then that more less would be the price today. However they still didn't say anything about changing their operational budget. Therefore 8 million still stands. If we deduct those 8 millions from $11.153.126 we get 3.153.126 dollars of 'investable' money. 3.153.126 / 11.153.126 = 28,27% 0,00369 / 0,001 (today's price) = 27,10 %
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None of the videos are working.
Hardly surprising.
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I tried to check out what is going on with REALs, but I'm to short wirth crypto to know for sure. If we check token holders, we can clearly see that there's a separate wallet (or however it is called) with 20% team tokens, and then there's something I don't understand. https://etherscan.io/token/0x9214ec02cb71cba0ada6896b8da260736a67ab10#balancesThe second one is 15%, however nor team, neither reserve was supposed to be 15%. The third is 9,0820%, BUT at first it was 14%. So putting those three together is 20+15+14 and 51(sale)=100% Bounty was 100000 REAL, and in fact there's a transaction of 100000. The question is what happened with some 900 000 tokens from the third wallet. For sure wallets from places 3-10 exchange tokens between themselves. What is it for? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I know almost nothing about crypto/blockchain ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Instead of keeping the reserve in one place they mixed it in a way that doesnt make much sense to me.
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Wow. Well, that was useless. Does that mean they are still behind on developement or havent started at all? Today Melissa said on telegram that we can expect news about new budget and platform in 1-2 weeks ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzaYm0gV.png&t=665&c=B018wlpW8-5EDQ) Is anyone able to explain that excerpt: "We will not have a budget of 80% of total raised funds if we want to execute the model outlined in the whitepaper, even when that budget of 8MM USD was stated in the whitepaper". Is that gramatically or logically correct? It was poorly written, but I assume it means the budget will be more than 20% of the raised funds. If she meant what you think, then there's another reason why I don't think they can be trusted. She could've written Core Operating Budget, but she wrote "that budget"... In my opinion the worst of it all is that they deeply undermined the idea of cryptocurrency in real estate.
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Wow. Well, that was useless. Does that mean they are still behind on developement or havent started at all? Today Melissa said on telegram that we can expect news about new budget and platform in 1-2 weeks ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzaYm0gV.png&t=665&c=B018wlpW8-5EDQ) Is anyone able to explain that excerpt: "We will not have a budget of 80% of total raised funds if we want to execute the model outlined in the whitepaper, even when that budget of 8MM USD was stated in the whitepaper". Is that gramatically or logically correct?
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Where are we currently at in terms of raised amount of money?
The ICO raised just over 37k ETH, which would be around $11 million. Wow, that is a huge bag of money. Excited about what you are going to pull off with it! Yeah but you do realize that only 51% will go towards the project. They will only buy property with 51% of the money and keep the rest. To be honest I am not fully aware of that. They simply keep the rest? I mean, they use it for operational costs and stuff. They need to finance the operations apart from buying property itself. BonTon, REAL was the reason why I joined this forum. I'm not a bitpro, however I try to get the knowledge regarding crypto. To make it short. From what I understood it's common to give 20% to developers. On top they decided to have 29% to their disposal. Just in case there was a need for that tokens. If I get you right, what you mean by finanacing the properties is the maintanance costs eg. keeping management, keeping housekeepers and so on. I tried to get an answer whether that was included in their 20% goal, but I got no answer. So I guess 20% was.. undescribable. I tend to believe, that Melissa as beautiful as she is, was to short to understand it. To answer your question straight: read the white paper. It's all there.
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I have just one question: will it be used as planned and gain profit as claimed or not? And I agree with others that token price are pointless for everyone except "easy money" hunters.
It's almost impossible to be sure. From what I've read their White Paper was well received as being very professional, in my opinion it lacked basic data. My assumption is that before the ICO they already knew which properties they want to buy. That is both good and bad. To me more bad than good since it raises more questions regarding true intensions. However if they turn out to be 'honest' in what they do, and the money they have is enough to buy at least one of the resorts, than most important question is how will they approach the 8M Core Operating Budget. It's quite complicated, but if they had reached their initial CAP, it would take slighlty under two years to brake even. They managed to gather 10% or less of what they intended, so ... anything is possible. What I'm absolutely sure of is that $11M is way to little to make it work as planned.
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You're right, but wouldn't it be ~80% of 51% (or ~40%)? I'm referencing the whitepaper from my phone, so it's not easy to double check.
No, the remaining 49% are tokens, that were not for sale. 20% went to the team (they cannot sell it for a year), and 29% was meant to be a backup for future projects, however they can sell it right away if they havent got enough money to buy a property.
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Can you tell me how this project is "asset backed" when they are pulling money out of thin air giving out up to 25% bonuses?
Only the crowdsale tokens are "asset backed" (that's 51%) and on top of that you have bonuses up to 25%! These bonuses are not "asset backed" either.
They must have been called out on this before, no? I can't be the first who has noticed this. I don't have time to read trough 100+ pages to find their response to this. Someone knows?
I think you got it wrong. Page 23 of WP. The were presumably willing to invest 70-80% of what they got from token sale on condition that money for COP are deducted. Since COP (Core Operating Budget) was estimated to be 8 million dollars, they are left with 3 million. So in fact it would mean they are investing 25% As a RE professional I was quite active here in early September trying to open eyes of those who saw this project as 'incredible'. I asked loads of questions to Melissa, but she wouldn't answer. And I'm not surprised as these were serious questions regarding financial terms. I tried to warn all those who apparently had never have any experience in RE, but after a while I realized that there is no hope for them. Lastly, even if they were to invest 11M and get 12% yield, that makes 1,32M a year. 10% (their profit) would be 132K a year, that is 11K dollars a month. ELEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Do you really think it is possible to hire bunch of RE and Blockchain specialists for that amount of money? I mean.... C'MON
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