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1  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: How 999dice.com is stealing your coins, and exactly why you won't believe me on: February 08, 2015, 11:44:40 AM
Similar to JustDice who used to have server provided client hashes unless you forced a randomization on your client
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482855.0
2  Economy / Gambling / Re: Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: March 06, 2014, 09:21:30 AM
That is a fair use case, If the user has requested it on one screen they shouldn't be bothered by a fancybox pop up on the others that say the seeds has been changed.
then you have no way to change the seeds during betting without the user knowing.
3  Economy / Gambling / Re: Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: March 05, 2014, 11:47:44 AM
Don't forget the second point I made earlier that he can actually change the seeds anytime he wants during your betting, so he can figure out your pattern and then choose the corresponding client/seed hash, yes it would be more risky for him to do this incase someone actually wrote down their hashes, but really who does?

If he wanted he could remove his ability to change your seeds on the fly with a simple if statement, I have raised this with him and now the community, no one cares, then let it be.

I didn't address that because I don't think people are very interested, but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

The field that holds the seeds is created on the fly when you click 'randomize'.  I can't change the value in a field that doesn't exist.  If the "randomize" dialog isn't visible, the seed field doesn't exist.

The code I refer to doesn't have anything to do with the randomize screen, I am saying you can replace the server and cliend seeds as well as the number of rolls on the fair tab any time you want with this code:
Code:
  socket.on("shash", function(data) {
    $("#shash").html(data)
  });
  socket.on("seed", function(data) {
    $("#seed").html(data)
  });
...
  socket.on("nonce", function(data) {
    $("#nonce").html(data)
  });
4  Economy / Gambling / Re: Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: March 04, 2014, 08:11:16 PM

I agree with you that the site can be provably fair, and that has to be balanced with the user experience. 

My main point of the post is it is not provably fair by default.
If you visit the site for the first time, the client and server seeds are provided by the server, yes you can verify they rolled as expected, but it is also possible those client and server seeds were pre-prepared.

I am over the issue now, I am not going to do a crusade, I'll let the gamblers make their decisions.

So what? Unless dooglus has psychic powers, he can't tell how you're going to bet.  Are you betting high? Low? 49.5%? 20%? 10%? Martingale? Progressive strategy? Bet 0.1 but 1.0 every tenth bet?  He doesn't know.  Therefore he can't create a seed that will give you unlucky numbers for your particular betting strategy.

Don't forget the second point I made earlier that he can actually change the seeds anytime he wants during your betting, so he can figure out your pattern and then choose the corresponding client/seed hash, yes it would be more risky for him to do this incase someone actually wrote down their hashes, but really who does?

If he wanted he could remove his ability to change your seeds on the fly with a simple if statement, I have raised this with him and now the community, no one cares, then let it be.
5  Economy / Gambling / Re: Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: March 02, 2014, 09:44:59 AM
Quote
By default its not provably fair, perhaps should put this on your site:

This game is provably fair*

*At Just-Dice, those steps are:
1) make a note of the server seed hash
2) set your own (unpredicable) client seed
3) play as much as you like, making a note of your rolls
4) verify the rolled numbers


No, by default the game is provably fair.  Provable is an adjective, it means that something is capable of being proven.  Just-dice can be proven to be fair.  As Doog explained, the user just has to take certain steps to do that.  And, as far as I know, of those who did take those steps, just-dice has been proven fair 100% of the time.  

Every user has the ability to prove that the game that they just played is fair.  It sounds like you just want the site to make it easier for users to prove that the game is fair.  Doog's position appears to be that the benefits of that, if any, are outweighed by the negative impact those changes would have on user experience.  If anyone disagrees, I'm sure there are other dice sites that make it easier to prove fairness, and if not, create one!  Maybe you're right, Doog is wrong, and users do prefer the steps to prove fairness to be easier, even if it requires changes that may be a detriment to the user experience.  Maybe there's some room for innovation there, and it can be done with little to no cost to the user experience.  

The point is, the game is fair, and with some effort that can be proven by anyone playing it if they follow Doog's instructions.  Just-dice is provably fair to gamblers.

The potential for anyone in Doog's position to do something dishonest (walk away with investor money, cheat his own site, switch the game with a different game that is unfair) has nothing to do with the fairness of the game.  That potential exists whenever someone must place their trust in someone else.  You can never prove that there is a 100% chance of honesty.  But you can make a rational, informed judgment, and all things considered this seems to be a pretty safe one considering the various incentives, at least in this context (I know little about and can't comment on whether the site is safe from hackers, for example, though it is a pretty big target and as far as I know other than a manual payout mistake early on, not much of any has been lost).

I agree with you that the site can be provably fair, and that has to be balanced with the user experience. 

My main point of the post is it is not provably fair by default.
If you visit the site for the first time, the client and server seeds are provided by the server, yes you can verify they rolled as expected, but it is also possible those client and server seeds were pre-prepared.

I am over the issue now, I am not going to do a crusade, I'll let the gamblers make their decisions.
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Bitcoin too tainted now? on: February 26, 2014, 02:53:47 AM
I can also think of inputs.io and weexchange

are you talking about total Bitcoins mayne? I mean released coins.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Is Bitcoin too tainted now? on: February 26, 2014, 02:44:40 AM
Others can provide more solid numbers, but it would it be fair to say that over 10% of the current coins released have been stolen? Is this too much?
8  Economy / Gambling / Re: List of Provably Fair , Non Provably Fair and Scam Gambling Sites on: February 24, 2014, 08:14:14 AM
I'll refer you to this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482855.0
Where Dooglus admits that Just-Dice is provably fair only if you use the randomize function, otherwise the client and server seed are provided by the server.
9  Economy / Gambling / Re: Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: February 23, 2014, 09:45:43 PM
Your thread subject, "Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers" isn't accurate.  More accurate would be "Just-Dice is provably fair to any gambler who cares about provable fairness and can be bothered to take the steps to verify the proof".
By default its not provably fair, perhaps should put this on your site:
Quote
This game is provably fair*

*At Just-Dice, those steps are:
1) make a note of the server seed hash
2) set your own (unpredicable) client seed
3) play as much as you like, making a note of your rolls
4) verify the rolled numbers



how could it be changed to be provably fair to gamblers?

Generate client seed client-sidedly.
Its not much to ask, but he is refusing to do it for some reason.

The second change I asked for is condition checking in the code that lets the server change the seeds (he can do any time during your betting), something simple like "if user has randomize window open then allow seed changes otherwise refuse" would work.
10  Economy / Gambling / Just-Dice is not provably fair to gamblers on: February 23, 2014, 09:01:31 AM
I have raised this with Dooglus over a week ago, we discussed solutions but he has decided the site will not change.

The problem
The client side key is generated by the server initially and has no security so it can be changed at any time

Background
There are three parts to generating a fair bet:
  • Server Key - given to the user as a hash
  • Client Key - known by the user (and should be generated by the user)
  • Bet number
The time and size of a bet have nothing to do with the result.

How can this be abused
The nature of Just-Dice rolls are that you bet high or low in a 0-100, if the client and server key are generated by the server they can pre-prepare client-server keys that will result in rolls in their favor.
for example they can generate millions of sets of hashs until the results:
1) are generally 10-90 so that people will not get the rare 10x payout rolls (less than 10 or greater than 90)
2) have long streaks above or below 50 to send martingalers bust
So use your imagination, they can dictate the roll results

The technical details
The code is available here:
https://just-dice.com/javascripts/dice.js
A beautified copy:
http://pastebin.com/CatuARX2

The Server and Client keys can be changed at any time by the server, here is the corresponding code:
Code:
  socket.on("shash", function(data) {
    $("#shash").html(data)
  });
  socket.on("seed", function(data) {
    $("#seed").html(data)
  });
The only protection is if the user writes down both keys and verify their bets every 100 rolls, after that your bets a no longer visible

When you load the site, the client key is provided by the server, this is not a problem for returning users, but first time visitors should have their own java-script engine generating a client key, here is the code:
Code:
  socket.on("init", function(data) {
    ... other code ...
    $("#shash").html(data.shash);
    $("#nonce").html(data.nonce);
    $("#seed").html(data.seed);
It is possible to use the randomize function when you first enter the site, but I do not believe many users do this.

Caveat
I am not accusing the site of rigging rolls, I am just saying that it is possible.
11  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: The WeExchange 2nd Stage Scam! Currently ~$1,000,000 (Check the NEWS) on: November 27, 2013, 01:13:11 AM
For the list:

Date   2013-11-20 18:25:04
Transaction ID   dDIq7XPNVfD9e1H85N1IvQ1V9SBO8WwZ
Type   Withdraw
Debit   0.11071564 BTC
Credit   
Fee   0.00000000 BTC
BTC Transaction   
Status   Processing
12  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is Newbie Status Really That Hard? on: May 06, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Not a fan here, I prefer to lurk, and then when I do want to reply to a thread it has silly rules
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