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1  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 10, 2017, 08:18:27 AM
O.k.  But does the fact that there are a lot of newbies who are being taken advantage of change any analysis.

I haven't observed the market long enough to draw definitive conclusions but the lack of trading experience of the many small  investors seems to make it easier for the pros to make their moves which makes to the price & volume action look as if taken from a manual of TA principles, particularly on the shorter time frames (1 to 15 minutes).  For those versed in TA this becomes an advantage if they trade on these short frames, as the pros moves become easier to read and anticipate.


 

Don't try to act as if you are the first person coming to this space and applying TA.  There are all kinds of attempts at TA, and I am not discounting TA in its entirety, that's for sure.  So yeah, some people use technical, and some people couch it with appropriate grains of salt, including considering exponential s-curve factors, metcalfe principles and the level of maturity of bitcoin as compared to various other markets... accounting for fundamentals and ta.

You are sure right and I didn't mean to imply I was the first one, sorry if I gave that impression





To conclude, based on Fibonacci and Elliot,  I think BTC is undergoing a correction within an uptrend, that will resume once the correction is done.   I think this correction will reach down to about 3800 USD  as a minimum and 2800 USD as a maximum  and extend itself over 3-10 trading days depending on how deep it will reach.  A break over 4670 USD in strong volumes would invalidate my hypothesis.

That is a fairly reasonable way of rephrasing your proposition, and I have no real problems with that - even if I might assign differing probabilities and even have slightly different targets.

My targets are also slightly different, I mean I didn't set buy orders at round figures...  one problem, though, with setting targets at very specific levels clearly identified by previous support/resistance level, trend lines, fibonacci levels, etc.  is  that the pros know them all too well and chances are they are going to spin the market around these marks very very fast, making it difficult for people to enter/exit the market at these specific and very precise levels.   My suggestion is to identify the levels and then give it some leeway in setting your buy/sell orders  erring on the side of caution to make sure your trades are executed.



Do you concede that we appear to be in a bull market and there is a pretty decent likelihood that we will continue in a bull market, in spite of possible shorter term corrections.

Actually, even currently, it is seeming like it could be difficult to break below $4k, so even reaching your upper side of a low of $3800 could be a bit of a struggle.. but surely not impossible... I am currently thinking that maybe 40% odds of reaching down to $3800... even though if we break below $4100 then the odds of going to $3800 become greater and may even become closer to 50/50 at that point, if we were to reach it.. but we have to reach it, first, no?


I concede we are in a bull market and I believe we are just undergoing a correction.  Whether this is an ABC correction (3 steps Eliot wave) or proper impulse wave (5 steps) down - that temporarily inverts the trend -   remains to be seen. In the first case I think the target is  around 3800-3700 USD,  in the second case around 2800-3000 USD. I'm unsure about the odds, but at the moment I see a slightly higher probability this is just an ABC correction, precisely because the underlaying bullish sentiment is so strong.  Sooner or later however there will be a deeper correction that will retrace to at least -61,8% Fibonacci level of whatever upleg it will follow, meaning, for those not versed in TA jargon, that 2/3 of previous gains will be wiped out.



This is what I am going to do and, of course, I might be wrong and I will pay the price of errors


Of course, you can do what you want, and I personally don't bet too heavily in any direction - I play in a kind of incrementalist methodology that has been extremely profitable, and sure it is possible that there are ways that I could have made way more money, but incrementalism seems to work pretty well, including NOT betting too much at any one time regarding whether one direction is more likely than another (except maybe some tweaking, here and there, on the edges).
[/quote]

I agree, incrementalism is in the long term the safest - and often also the most profitable - way to proceed  unless you are very very confident to have nailed a long term bottom or top  at  which to take your position  and times proves to be have  been right.  I stress the fact that these tops or bottoms have to be long term, to be seen on weekly or monthly time frames.  These opportunities do not come around often.  If you don't see one coming your way already, then incrementalism is definitely the best option.
2  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 09, 2017, 02:15:32 PM
Hi,

I am an absolute newby to this forum, this is my first post. On the other hand, I have been trading financial assets for quite some time.  

I expected today's BTC dip, whatever the supposed reason for it would come out to be (i.e. fake news from China) on the basis  of :

1. a simple analysis of trading volumes analyzed on various time frames

2. the application of Fibonacci retracement levels to the previous leg up

3. the application of Eliot's wave count to the previous leg up (impulse wave) and to the current leg down (correction wave)


Technical analysis is not science  and its various tools are not always churning out foolproof answers.  Some tools work better ( = more often and on more type of financial assets) than others, but even those can fail ( = give false signals).   In my experience,  Eliot and Fibonacci have the best predictive power because they are not based on averages of past datas but on eternal or, at least, recurrent human behavioural patterns.

This said,  I put out my 5 cents of wisdom to say that the market will find its way to correct lower  before it resumes its way up.  I have set a number of buying orders at decreasing price levels between 4000 and 3000 USD  so, to put my mouth where my money is, this is what I can recommend to others as well.

Good trades everybody !


Sure your post sounds reasonable newbie; however, you need to account for s-curve adoption, metcalfe networking principles and that bitcoin is an immature technology that is also going through fundamental extreme attacks and even weirdness in the cryptospace on a broader level with a variety of random and extreme performances of ICOs and alt coins, and that is where the fucktard over reliance on technical analysis frequently screws up with their assertions about supposed inevitable needs for correction in a kind of false equivalency about bitcoin being a supposed mature market.

Sure you could be correct this time (a stopped clock is correct twice a day), but please present your technical analysis with a bit more grains of salt and accounting for both the immature price finding aspect of bitcoin and the s-curve analysis which are important factors to not leave out when you are arriving at your supposed "reasonable" technical analysis conclusions and advices.



I agree with everything you say and there certainly are specific dynamics in the bitcoin market which can throw off the scale many a technical indicator, but still the people trading it have , in average, the same psychological framework as the people active, say,  in the Forex market or the stock market. Actually, I dare say,  the bitcoin market seem to have attracted large numbers of new and rather inexperienced traders that fall easily prey of the professionals that, make no mistake, are plying this market too. It is enough to look at 5 minutes charts and the order book to see the so called "whales" gobbling up and down the plancton as they please.

The technology behind bitcoin maybe new, but the mindset of people trading it seems to be the usual on  and for this reason it seems to me -  and this is just my humble opinion, as I do not presume to the express the truth - that certain technical analysis tools like Fibonacci retracements and Elliot waves  do have some predictive power, until of course they are proven wrong because the first rule of any trader should be always to act upon othe price & volume action in front of his eyes  rather than the theories (about what price & volume should  do) in holds in his mind.

At the risk of attracting some criticism, I say also that many of the traders seem to couple their inexperience with an equal amount of arrogance, which expresses itself in the form of a refusal to apply to bitcoins trading the tools of conventional technical analysis.  It is absolutely true that TA tools do not work all the time nor on all assets,  but this is true not only for bitcoins but also for other traditional financiall assets.  Again it is true that certain TA tools are extrapolations of past price action with scarce predictive power in a market so young and exuberant as the bitcoins.  This said, having some kind of tool - that you can fully customize according to your own assumptions - to analyse and dissect the price & volume action to try and make sense of it, is in my opinion better than having none and relying on hearsay or pump & dump speculations.

To conclude, based on Fibonacci and Elliot,  I think BTC is undergoing a correction within an uptrend, that will resume once the correction is done.   I think this correction will reach down to about 3800 USD  as a minimum and 2800 USD as a maximum  and extend itself over 3-10 trading days depending on how deep it will reach.  A break over 4670 USD in strong volumes would invalidate my hypothesis.

I do not recommend to sell BTC short , unless the exchange you are using guarantees you very swift trade executions, because the drop could stop and reverse very quickly due to any number of reasons because, as I said, the underlying trend is upwards.

If you want to own BTC,  buy at regular intervals on the way down.  If you own BTC, sell some of it at present levels and rebuy the same quantity at lower levels on the way down.

This is what I am going to do and, of course, I might be wrong and I will pay the price of errors
3  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 08, 2017, 03:47:02 PM
Hi,

I am an absolute newby to this forum, this is my first post. On the other hand, I have been trading financial assets for quite some time.  

I expected today's BTC dip, whatever the supposed reason for it would come out to be (i.e. fake news from China) on the basis  of :

1. a simple analysis of trading volumes analyzed on various time frames

2. the application of Fibonacci retracement levels to the previous leg up

3. the application of Eliot's wave count to the previous leg up (impulse wave) and to the current leg down (correction wave)


Technical analysis is not science  and its various tools are not always churning out foolproof answers.  Some tools work better ( = more often and on more type of financial assets) than others, but even those can fail ( = give false signals).   In my experience,  Eliot and Fibonacci have the best predictive power because they are not based on averages of past datas but on eternal or, at least, recurrent human behavioural patterns.

This said,  I put out my 5 cents of wisdom to say that the market will find its way to correct lower  before it resumes its way up.  I have set a number of buying orders at decreasing price levels between 4000 and 3000 USD  so, to put my mouth where my money is, this is what I can recommend to others as well.

Good trades everybody !
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