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1  Local / India / Re: ICICI Bank closing accounts involved in bitcoin trading? on: February 11, 2018, 01:43:36 PM
India is one of those countries where earning money is frowned upon. Doing business involves fulfilling a lot of regulations and procedures. Most small business in India aren't savvy enough to hire a corporate lawyer or a team for this. So obviously, they look for ways around regulations. This is one reason that GST has been a back breaker for a lot of small businesses.
Handling Forex is one of these things. It is kindda illegal to possess an international currency if you cannot declare a source for it. The same i suppose stands true for the bitcoin exchanges that don't have base in India.

Such communications are bad news for those delving into BTC trading. The part of the communication that says
remittance in any form towards overseas exchange trading through internet/ electronic trading portals is not permitted.
Indian residents are therefore prohibited from trading in foreign exchange in domestic and overseas market, including binary option trading with commodities, stocks, indices, bitcoin index and forex etc.
If you have withdrawn INR generated from one of the Indian websites by selling BTC, that shouldn't really be taken in the category of "remittances". But they are talking about remittances towards overseas exchanges. That means if you are trading on foreign exchanges in any way, then that is not permitted.

Though it begs the question that how do they assume that you are trading and making "remittances towards foreign exchange"??


Friend got a similar message from the bank. He was using credit card to make USD payments to cex.io. so that qualifies as a remittance - and is against the rules of the bank and FEMA.

As for other FUD spready here - you won't go to prison for this as FEMA is a civil offence only and going after small amounts (<5 lakh) is not worth the RBI or ED's administrative resources.
2  Local / India / Re: India may ban Bitcoin on: February 10, 2018, 04:23:02 AM
Regulations are on the Doar, MARK MY WORDS
enough of media manipulations all these are the media FUD means the regulations are close.
very close.

Regulations are unlikely this year. What may come are the recommendations of the committee, which will create more FUD.
3  Local / India / Re: About Taxes on: February 04, 2018, 11:27:04 AM
How safe is it to withdraw High Value of BTC at present scenario in India ..? around 5btc.? These are holdings from 2015-2016.. I haven't filed IT return till this date.. not even 0. that's where I'm having problems. ANY  Good CA or someone who can give a wise advice on this particular scenario ..? What are the chances that I'll face any notices..? I would like to clear that all of the money that I invested is purely my own. It wasn't much back then around 300$ in DAO that eventually forked into ETH/ETC

If you haven't sold anything for rupees, you have zero tax liability.
Morally Correct answer: sell now and pay capital gains. I-T will most definitely notice the huge payout and possibly scrutinize/buttfuck you. They are brain-dead and on a witchhunt.
Smart answer: Wait out the witchhunt or think about selling it on localbitcoins for cash bit by bit.
Best answer: HODL and cash out years later in a sane country or buy your kid citizenship of a nice tropical island country with BTC
4  Local / India / Re: Income tax for the amount available in zebpay/unocoin?? on: January 23, 2018, 08:45:20 AM
Hi
I want to know the status about INR balance keeping in zebpay/unocoin wallet by selling Bitcoin . If i am selling bitcoin which i earned by giving services and selling in zebpay and keeping INR amount in zebpay wallet not transfered to bank acount until april this financial year 2017/18 IT calculation . Do i need to pay tax for the amount available in wallet ??
Note: Please dont spam here ?? Genuine answers appreciated

Yes, you need to pay tax on the amount of capital gains as per the slab (short term or long term).
Taxable event (selling to fiat) happened in the current financial year so you have to pay for this year. It doesn't matter if its bank account or Zebpay account.
Disclaimer - I am not a tax consultant.
5  Local / India / Re: I-T department conducting surveys at Bitcoin exchanges on: December 22, 2017, 06:17:45 AM
As far as I have heard is that govt is considering HNI who ever in 2017 have bought btc worth over 1lac till now.  So I think majorly they will want the tax to be paid on the profits earned since people who had invested before 3-4 months and by now if they hold would have made good profits. So tax notice would be sent to them.

Investing is not a taxable event. Selling for rupees is a taxable event. What if someone purchased in current tax year (after April 2017) and did not sell? How does he have tax liability and why would he receive notice for tax evasion?
May I ask the source of this information?
6  Local / India / Re: I-T department conducting surveys at Bitcoin exchanges on: December 22, 2017, 02:51:15 AM
In today's newspaper I read that Income Tax department is going to send notices to 4-5 lakh high level traders who have traded Bitcoins at popular exchanges.
http://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/bitcoin-income-tax-notices-4-lakh-hnis-tax-evasion-cryptocurrency-digital-money-tax-fraud/story/266264.html

This comes after IT officials conducted surveys at 9 popular Bitcoin exchanges in India last week.

Let us know if anyone here receives the notice  Tongue

So how many people have received tax notice from the IT dept and do we have anyone reporting here the details of it?



I happened to see one of the notices, sent to a trader. Not sure who, but I heard that this was on some traders group on whatsapp.
Noticed 28 or so questions on it, mainly regarding assets, crypto, public keys where other crypto is held, explanation of how purchased, etc.

Lots of requests on Coinsecure for audit reports and details of transactions from users themselves, so I do think this is quite widespread.

Thanks for the update. As per you, what seems to be the profile of the person getting the notice?
Who is HNI?
Who is "large volume" or "active" trader?
If a person buys BTC in 2017 and does not sell in currency is he liable to get a notice?
7  Local / India / Re: I-T department conducting surveys at Bitcoin exchanges on: December 21, 2017, 10:54:59 AM
In today's newspaper I read that Income Tax department is going to send notices to 4-5 lakh high level traders who have traded Bitcoins at popular exchanges.
http://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/bitcoin-income-tax-notices-4-lakh-hnis-tax-evasion-cryptocurrency-digital-money-tax-fraud/story/266264.html

This comes after IT officials conducted surveys at 9 popular Bitcoin exchanges in India last week.

Let us know if anyone here receives the notice  Tongue

So how many people have received tax notice from the IT dept and do we have anyone reporting here the details of it?



Its Govt. notice should take some time to reach Tongue

People have received notices as per the Hindu. Who is HNI in this context? Who is "active" trader?
8  Local / India / Re: Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges? on: December 19, 2017, 06:21:33 AM
What do you mean by Pro users?
What does the I-T department mean by 4-5 lakh HNIs as in the news reports? Who is HNI under their definition?
Considering 20 lakh active traders in India, about 70-80% have registered in the current tax year, so how can they be served notices for evasion?? Huh
There is no taxable event for buying, only for selling in rupees, so what do they mean by sending notices to 'investors'?  Huh

So many questions and this all reeks of overreach and tax raj / vasooli.
9  Local / India / Re: How To USE Bitcoin To Send Rupees To Canada on: November 28, 2017, 07:02:40 PM
Hey guys, I am an NRI with an SBI NRO bank account that contains funds.

I want to send these funds to Canada, but I've heard the fees are too much to do this.

I was considering doing this with Bitcoin by buying BTC on an Indian Exchange and then selling them on a Canadian Exchange.

Does anyone have any experience, knowledge, or advice on this matter?

My suggestion is don't use Bitcoins to remit money. There are FEMA laws governing remittances out of India. Also it is out of the banking channel that can be termed as Hawala.
10  Local / India / Re: Bitcoins cannot be legal in India. on: November 03, 2017, 07:32:43 PM
Hi,

Why everyone is responding on paypal is legal or not, Stop replying on paypal, discuss about bitcoin !!

Latest news is this ->https://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/business/business-news/war-on-bitcoin-govt-panel-seeks-crackdown-on-cryptocurrency-dealers-in-india/articleshow/61464930.cms

Bitcoin is very good way to hide your black money , Money is coming from there may be hawala too, this make it growing but what would happen to bitcoin price like when china bans the ICO its drop's Same will happen when India ban.

lets say if some excahnge get hacked like in Japan , then what this government will do , They will simply say we don't know why you even invested on it, so all exchange will go there home with your money and you as indian will not able to do any thing.

People who are saying that these companies are paying tax means they are legal but no they are not take an example of indi coin , they are doing 1 ICO for india which is very goo , but they registered domain name with andaman & nicobar address wow (not posting the screenshot last time admin removed it), yes but they are legal but they do no come under companies act , they registered NGO for it .

Paying tax will not make them legal else all MLM companies are legal.


Bitcoin is a horrible way to hide black money. Would you hide your black money on an irreversible public ledger? The IRS is already using chainanalysis software to triangulate and track Bitcoin. You know what's the best way to hide black money? Cash, followed by Banks. Who helped launder money during Demonetization? Petrol pumps and banks, with licenses from beloved government.
That said, in agreement with your point on ICOs.
11  Local / Press & News from India / Re: [2017-09-21] ET: Trading in bitcoins under taxmen, Enforcement Directorate lens on: September 24, 2017, 06:42:53 PM
This days what ever news is coming in media or any announcement of government is mostly on the negative side of it. Does it mean that it is becoming difficult and more predictable about the future of the bitcoin in country. Soon government may come out with the law and it could be like end of the bitcoin and they may say they are bringing their own coin Laxmi coin as news stated before.

This is common FUD across the globe in big countries. Russia still can't make up its mind on how to deal with crypto and Russia is really big on crypto adoption and mining. Even Japanese government had pushback initially. It is the job and nature of ED and RBI to express concerns. Customer protection is their biggest concern followed by Money Laundering - both of which can be addressed by legalizing exchanges with record keeping and KYC requirements and restricting ICOs, Localbitcoins, cloud mining scams - which give a bad name to Bitcoin IMHO.

There have been 10,00,000 downloads on Zebpay and Coinsecure has 100 BTC trading volume per day. I think the cat is out of the bag now to banhammer Bitcoin China-style but who knows?
12  Local / India / Re: People pay your Taxes on: September 23, 2017, 04:48:06 PM
What about NRIs .
IF I can buy in EUR and then sell it in INR into NRE Account?
Usually any amount deposited in NRE account is tax free in india ?

Fiat gains: I think to be safe, you should pay taxes on fiat money capital gains in India as well.

Crypto trading gains: I don't think there is any tax treatment for crypto-to-crypto trading gains (not booked in fiat) except in the USA, where the IRS has issued guidelines to tax crypto-to-crypto trades

Taxation can be retrospective (e.g. Vodafone case). Not sure if the government will issue guidelines this tax year. My sense is they will treat Bitcoin as "commodity", so capital gains should be paid on fiat gains but not on crypto gains. They "may" ask people to declare their Bitcoin holdings in tax returns although they have not done that yet for gold, property etc.
13  Local / India / Re: Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges? on: September 23, 2017, 04:37:14 PM
Nothing like this from coinsecure..
We do get enquiries, but always for a single or group of users, where something has really gone bad, Our lawyer verifies and drafts responses and sends us data dump requests. We have never divulged blanket information, however, under duress and court stress, we are aware that blanket requests are possible.

The source does look like a guess or word of mouth or bad rumour or something. I would disregard it unless there was a legitimate alarm about the same.

In case of a blanket request, would users also be informed of what data has exactly been requested/ submitted?

Will clarify with legal and revert.
If am not wrong, during mass investigations, authorities do request non disclosure in some cases.


Thanks Benson. It is good to know Coinsecure has an ethical position.

I read on Sandeep Goenka's reddit AMA in 2016 where he said he will disclose all information when requested. This bothers me about Zebpay - also that they keep all user transactions on a ledger. I think the primary fear is Bitcoin users, being early adopters will become victims of a witchhunt. I am pretty certain that dealing on KYC exchanges is not the preferred route of money launderers and criminals - it may be LocalBitcoins, if at all - but knowing how this government works - they can make scapegoats out of regular users.
14  Local / India / Re: India may ban Bitcoin on: September 22, 2017, 12:38:05 PM
You have much faith in Indian policymakers to compare them to US Grin I don't think they like Bitcoin. India has capital controls like China and an ongoing "war" on "black money" (which excludes government employees apparently).

China had a massive adoption of Crypto with a lot of mining. India is still in infancy of adoption so it is much easier for the government to shut down exchanges and ban trading in India without collateral damage. All these things may tempt Government to ban crypto.

But fortunately under current legal framework it is not straightforward to do that. Ratan Tata has invested in Bitcoin remittance startup. It will be a setback for Fintech ecosystem. AP government is part of Ethereum alliance. All these reasons confound government attitude towards Crypto.
15  Local / India / Re: Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges? on: September 22, 2017, 12:30:26 PM
Mahim, Benson. You guys are on here. Hoping you will respond.

Zebpay had 500k downloads in May. So this probably involves a lot of users.
16  Local / India / Re: India may ban Bitcoin on: September 21, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
My 2 paisa on the topic.

India is not a dictatorship like China, it will take another Mudi government to get there but I digress.

There are laws in India and RBI, government need to work in ambit of law.

To ban Bitcoin government needs to make amendment to ITA act, making exception for Bitcoin as "Virtual currency is not an electronic document". Only center and not RBI can do this. One of the many reasons RBI stays away from Bitcoin is that it cannot amend ITA to ban virtual currency or it may have done so long time back. This is what law firms means by "under current legal framework bitcoin is legal" because it fits the definition of electronic document.

RBI has to amend FEMA, RBI act ot declare it a currency, which I doubt it will do. Declaring Bitcoin currency opens a pandora's box for central banks. This is why RBI wants SEBI to regulate it as "virtual good" or movable property. SEBI is pushing back saying it is not a commodity.

The government can ban Bitcoin but it will need amendments to the act.

Banning is hard to enforce and will push Bitcoin underground. India is not like China and it is not easy for central government to enforce compliance. Remember AP government is part of Ethereum alliance. It is easier for Finmin/government to regulate it, get the taxes and keep an eye on ledgers to track money laundering.
17  Local / India / Re: Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges? on: September 21, 2017, 08:33:25 PM
Hi,

I am a newbie BTC investor. I am aware of the technology, the laws or lack thereof (sources being Nishith Desai and Naavi.org).

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

If this is true, can any representatives of Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure please clarify the below questions on the nature of the request.

- What qualifies as a "transaction" and how is the limit calculated?
- What is the exact transaction window/timeframe of the request?

I understand its under terms of use and perfectly reasonable request but users should know more about the nature of the request.

Regards,
B.




Yes you heard it right. But, this happened around an year ago when government asked them that what tax proceedings are they carrying on before trading off bitcoins. After which unocoin remained closed for a while. After this all the exchanges came up with KYC procedures and yes your each transaction is traced through your PAN if you trade on indian exchanges.

Thanks. I believe this is a fresh request for user information.

The source is here - it is as of July 2017:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=213792.140

Can representatives of exchanges please confirm or deny this rumor and elaborate on the transaction threshold, transaction window and nature of request?
18  Local / India / Have authorities requested data on users from Indian exchanges? on: September 21, 2017, 05:22:03 PM
Hi,

I am a newbie BTC investor. I am aware of the technology, the laws or lack thereof (sources being Nishith Desai and Naavi.org).

I read on this forum that government authorities have requested user data and profiles from Indian exchanges like Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure since 2013 for those who made $2000 or above in transactions.

If this is true, can any representatives of Zebpay, Unocoin, Coinsecure please clarify the below questions on the nature of the request.

- What qualifies as a "transaction" and how is the limit calculated?
- What is the exact transaction window/timeframe of the request?

I understand its under terms of use and perfectly reasonable request but users should know more about the nature of the request.

Regards,
B.



19  Local / India / Re: People pay your Taxes on: September 21, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Can some one please help me.

a) If i buy Bitcoin through Credit Card in USD and Sell in INR (on Indian exchanges ) i.e trading , so will thier be any problem with income tax/RBI ? becoz transaction size will be huge ,and lot of money money in and out of bank account. i am ok to pay taxes. But i am worried about FEMA/and other un-necessary torture by IT/RBI.

Please help. I am unable to get answer anywhere Sad

Income tax won't be a problem if you declar/pay tax. RBI maybe a problem as USD to INR conversion has happened.

Best case scenario - RBI ignores or issues warning. It has work to do.
Worst case scenario - RBI penalizes you 3 times the amount.

Just my 2 cents.
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