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Sounds like a cool idea, but there seems to be an inconsistency with your design goals: Not all goods and services will be allowed. Everything unlawful will be banned from the service for instance guns, drugs, fake money.
If this is truly decentralized P2P software then there will be nothing you or anyone else can do to "ban" such things from being listed. |
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The question is how many will be issued through IPO and how long it takes to generate more ethers after IPO. That trillion may be achieved in 1000 years
From the "Currency and Issuance" section of the whitepaper linked in the OP: The issuance model will be as follows:
Ether will be released in a fundraiser at the price of 1 ether for 0.0001 BTC. Suppose that X ether gets released in this way.
0.25X ether will be allocated to the founders in a time-lock contract that prevents the founders from spending it for one year.
0.25X ether will be allocated to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ether such as ether salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point
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As the ether price at IPO is ~ 0.08 USD/ether, 1.2trillion ether means the market cap is ~ 100 billion dolars when launched! (10 times larger than bitcoin's)
Am I wrong?
Oh~ it will make founders as rich as Bill Gates in one night.
That would be like saying Bitcoin's market cap is 21,000,000 x [current market price], and is inaccurate as only 12,260,800 BTC have been mined and thus are potentially available to the market at the time of this writing. Similarly, all 1.2 trillion ether will not be available to the market on day 1, so it's market cap will not be ~ $100BB upon release. |
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Printing for prosperity!
BkgejYYpbHja4fpvw9KTKExqxymuhV6Rex
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OP - have you heard of the Bittunes project? Seems very much line with what you're proposing. www.bittunes.org |
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The event will be held this Wednesday, August 14 2013 at the New York City Bar Association. From the press release:
The entrepreneurs and investors who have been betting on Bitcoin and other virtual currencies are encouraged to attend, so they may know the regulatory environment they have entered. FinCEN's March 18th Guidance and the California C&Ds have made it clear that government has the virtual currencies squarely on its radar. Will this brave new set of technologies boom, or bust? The answer largely hinges on how well the industry adapts to its regulators.
Virtual Currency entrepreneurs can best get acquainted with their new legal responsibilities by attending this one day crash course and workshop. They will understand more about their federal obligations under the Bank Secrecy and Patriot Acts. They will meet and chat with the experts. Throughout the day's interactive sessions, they will have a chance to ask their questions. They will also learn all about state money transmitter licenses and have a chance to get better acquainted with their state regulators.
Rarely has there been an opportunity for such concentrated compliance learning. For those companies and their regulators, who are already on a steep learning curve about each other's domains, the landscape will become much clearer by day's end.
The day will finish with a cocktail mixer from 5:15 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
From 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., VC3 attendees who are interested may attend an informal industry discussion of lobbying and self-regulatory strategies, Chaired by Ms Constance Choi of Payward, Inc. and leader of the recently-launched self-regulatory effort, the Digital Asset Transfer Authority (DATA) that has garnered broad support from a large number of important industry players.
Early Bird pricing has been extended to August 11. Call David (917) 921-9529 to see if you qualify for affiliate group discounts.
Register here and use special code BBA150 to receive $150 off. This event will be a "must attend" for Bitcoin businesses who are currently in the dark as far as compliance goes. |
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I'm the guy on the right. I thought it went pretty well. Great 1st experience with OTC.
Actually inspired me to start working on a P2P trading platform without the server handling any part of the transaction process. Basically a P2P orderbook with mobile devices only.
Looking forward to seeing this P2P orderbook  |
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We were lucky to have Wired reporter Bob McMillan come by our second meetup on July 11, 2013 with his photographer to get interviews and take pictures for an article on Bitcoin OTC trading that he was writing. You can now read the article on wired.com here. On a damp Thursday night in July, a half-dozen men gather on the steps of San Francisco’s Yerba Buena Gardens, just across from St. Patrick Church on Mission Street. They dress down, mostly wearing the jeans and t-shirts uniform of Bay Area programmers. As the sun sets, they’re trading currency in the fog, selling silver and cash for Bitcoins and other crypto-currencies. Every now and then a new trader wanders by, asking, “Buttonwood?”
Welcome to the quickest, most private way to buy the internet’s most successful digital currency: in-person and face-to-face. For those interested in joining the Buttonwood SF meetup, you can get all of the info at our meetup.com page here. |
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Thanks for doing this I'll pass this along to people I know in the area!
Thanks! We're up to 25 people in the meetup and 10 people RSVPd to the first one which also happens to be a holiday so I'd say we're making good progress so far  |
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I’m happy to announce that as of June 28, 2013, the San Francisco Bay Area has its own “Satoshi Square” called Buttonwood SF. Partially inspired by the Project Buttonwood blog post that Josh Rossi published shortly before organizing the first Satoshi Square, partially the result of months of procrastinating, I have decided that now is the time for a truly peer-to-peer cryptocurrency trading group to organize in my adopted city of San Francisco. Every Thursday from 7:00-9:00PM PST we will be meeting in the North-West corner of Jackson Field (by the bleachers) in the Potrero Hill neighborhood, and if we need to head indoors for any reason then the backup location will be the Whole Foods Steep Brew cafe/bar which is 2 blocks down at the intersection of 17th and Rhode Island St. Trades will be done by open outcry method, and eventually I’d like to use some sort of order-tracking system so we can record prices and allow for real-time price discovery, such as the Buttonwood Web App Josh Rossi developed for Satoshi Square. Post with links continued here: http://p2pconnects.us/2013/06/29/buttonwood-sf-p2p-cryptocurrency-trading/ |
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best advice:
avoid regulatory traps by not avoiding regulation.
get a licence if you want to handle thousands of peoples fiat balances
Just an FYI, attempting to avoid financial regulations is a serious crime in the USA. OP- note that i do understand you said avoiding traps...but just wanted to throw that out there. I'm going to be clear by saying that people should follow whatever their local regulations are if they don't want to get in trouble with regulators. That said, State regulations are tantamount to the operation of a criminal racket, and should be done away with immediately in favor of peer regulation as described in my post. ... Any lobbying for regulation by Bitcoin-related organizations, even if the motivations appear innocent, should be looked at as a threat to Bitcoin as a whole. ...
Except that it's not. Except that it is, because it's a threat of violence against every Bitcoin user who would be required to jump over whatever arbitrary regulatory hurdles are propped up. |
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There is heated debate between proponents and opponents of State regulation, and rightly so: regulation always protects incumbents more than it protects consumers. This statement alone is highly debatable. Did you check the citation that is linked to in the actual post? It's pretty much a fact; however, I'll edit the post to say "often" rather than "always," because you're right, there is probably an exception or two in the thousands of regulations on the books. I try not to make such polar statements when reality is not usually so black and white, so thank you for catching that. Any lobbying for regulation by Bitcoin-related organizations, even if the motivations appear innocent, should be looked at as a threat to Bitcoin as a whole. Telling people what to think rather than providing premises should be a huge red flag that what you are reading is more propaganda than honest argument. It's both. I am providing reasons and citations (in the form of links) for the statements I make, so there are honest arguments behind the propaganda I am publishing. It's up to each individual to decide whether the arguments and citations are valid or not. State regulations only serve as a barrier to entry for new businesses, which will lead to centralization and cartelization of the Bitcoin economy. Regulation as an issue has a long history of debate, and is certainly not specific to Bitcoin. While it is not entirely clear how much regulation in any area is necessary, the idea that all regulation is bad is the purview of anarchists and other extremists and as such is not an argument that most people would consider worth their time. I'm not dismissing regulation in general, but specifically regulation by the State. The whole thesis of the post is that peer regulation is superior to State regulation. That you would consider a position which rejects violence or the threat thereof as "extreme" is sad. |
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"At Bitcoin2013, one of the big topics of discussion was regulation, which no one is excited about but everyone anticipates. The United States Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, or FinCEN, recently issued “guidance” as to how Bitcoin transactions will be regulated under their current regulatory regime, and the general consensus offered by the “Issues of Regulatory Compliance” panel at Bitcoin2013 was that all businesses which buy and sell bitcoins should register as a Money Services Business with the Federal Government and as Money Transmitters with every state government whose jurisdiction the business plans to operate in. There is heated debate between proponents and opponents of State regulation, and rightly so: regulation always protects incumbents more than it protects consumers. Any lobbying for regulation by Bitcoin-related organizations, even if the motivations appear innocent, should be looked at as a threat to Bitcoin as a whole. State regulations only serve as a barrier to entry for new businesses, which will lead to centralization and cartelization of the Bitcoin economy. This completely goes against the motivations for Bitcoin’s invention in the first place. While lobbying defensively to stave off new laws and regulation would be understandable (though likely a futile effort long-term), offensive lobbying which would help shape new laws and regulations is just that: it’s offensive, to both Bitcoin users and entrepreneurs." You can read the rest hereIf you like what you're reading, please upvote on Reddit! |
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Do you have some banking knowledge that you'd like to share with us? I'm all ears.
I have only speculated that existing value-transfer services like SWIFT, SEPA, and ACH could move value into our software if we find a way to receive it. I admit fully that I don't understand how they work otherwise.
Any hard info you have on how those move Value would be greatly useful.
From what I understand, many wire transfers in the U.S. go through FedWire, and I'm not sure it's as easy connecting to it as copy+pasting some numbers. I do wonder how easy it would be to get involved with SWIFT. I wonder if they've taken interest in Bitcoin at all?The apparent fallback plan of the moment is a cryptographically-signed IOU issuing business that sells us fiat, and is perhaps publically traded on btct.co. Other fallback plans exist too but aren't as good IMHO.
The "trusted OT server issueing contracts" does sound a lot like the cryptographically-signed IOU mentioned above. -
Everything in OT is a signed Ricardian contract. I hold no ill-will to the BMOT plan, but I don't see this Fiat solution as being adequate for real-time trading. Why not? Prices are live if you're dealing with a live market. Meanwhile, being your own trusted server would seem to mean a free license to counterfeit fiat like crazy! -I don't see how that could work either. Anyone can start an OT server and do it. You would have to gain a good reputation as a "redeemer" for your currency to gain value and be widely traded. Lamassu ATMs are going to deliver that promise in full soon enough... But it's still not going to enable real-time trading. No but it does make it convenient to buy bitcoins which you bail into OT servers and trade on in real time As I understand it, Coinflash simply verifies that localbitcoins-type sellers are legit... There is no service there to make them completely liquid. Am I missing something? I think they prefer brick-and-mortar businesses with regular hours, who hold a dollar balance and withdraw BTC as needed. So kind of, yes. Does this all crack the nut? What's still missing? |
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Love this idea, writing about it right now for a blog post on p2pconnects.us Have you heard of / considered Tent.io? https://tent.io/BitMessage seems great as is, but it's just something else to consider if BitMessage ends up having limitations that Tent.io doesn't. |
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Bitcoin already has miners, is it time it also had bankers? Never. Bankers are the problem, not the solution. Yes, banks are a problem, and that is exactly why this specific implementation of a P2P exchange won't work. You will never get banks to interact with a piece of decentralized software. The wires to make the transfer simply aren't there. The BitMessage + Open Transactions (BMOT) idea that FellowTraveler recently posted is the best solution so far. It has the necessary aspects of p2p exchange built in: OT offers smart contracts, escrow, cheques, untraceable Chaumian cash, and asset issuance, and BitMessage is the distributed order book. How to get fiat into this system? You give fiat to a trusted OT server who issues contracts backed by this fiat (or YOU are the trusted server, in which case you issue the fiat contracts yourself) and then you trade the fiat contracts for cryptocurrency contracts and settle with your trading partner on your own time. This is, at least, how I understand the system to work. I think what's really needed for fiat --> BTC --> fiat transfers is a network of in-person exchangers such as that proposed by Josh Rossi in Project Buttonwood. That plus agent networks that connect to regulated exchanges (like what Coinflash is trying to do) could do a lot to increase liquidity. TL;DR BitMessage + OT enables p2p exchanges if there is some trust present between the OT servers and the market participants. Using local meatspace p2p exchanges to buy Bitcoin as proposed by Project Buttonwood is ideal, and then use Bitcoin --> OT to perform instant transactions in/out of every other asset. |
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Long time lurker, first time poster. I'd like out of the newbie forums please. I've blogged about Bitcoin before, and am a Bitcoin consultant in the San Francisco area. I hope this gives me enough cred to get a one-way ticket out of the newb section. See you on the other side! |
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