I would love to see some of your expert analysis.

Watching 'experts' speculate on Bitcoin is like...

...watching 'newbs' speculate on Bitcoin

There have been so many wrong predictions made by long time members here that anyone taking any of it seriously should get their head examined.

Mass delusion driven by blind greed. Nothing else to see here folks.

I might have been off by a couple of weeks. To all the people that said it will never go down to $100-- let's just wait and see.

You don't think the the banks or government can manipulate the markets? Outlawing, extreme taxing, using the media as a tool for propaganda, etc. are just a few ways.


If Bitcoin is supposed to be money, why is one worth $700? Or anything at all?


If I bought BTC1000 for $1000 a couple of years ago I didn't do much to justify having $700,000, or the ability to suddenly buy a house and fancy car. Excuse me if I don't see much 'value' in what I did. The problem is our notion of what is valuable. Hard work or even smart work isn't valuable-- getting as much as possible for as little as possible is what passes as valuable nowadays and is precisely what gives value to Bitcoin.


There was a goal of social justice, just not for everyone-- you know, not having banks or governments controlling and taking our money-- remember that? By saying there wasn't means you are admitting that Bitcoin is nothing more than speculative greed driven 'value' quite literally based on nothing. What other usefulness does it have over classic 'money'?

And because you mentioned all the other altcoins-- wouldn't they make Bitcoin 'tech' seem redundant (if that were another aspect of its 'value')?

But you can't have it both ways. There is nothing I did that made me potentially deserve anything when I bought a bitcoin. I simply exchanged one method of storing value for another. Sure, bitcoin has some usefulness as a tool for barter, but why would we attribute a value to it, when bitcoins being traded for bitcoins is pointless. If there is only a finite amount of value just as there is a finite amount of resources and people, then where is that value coming from? 

If the banks had to buy them from people, you think they would buy them at whatever the speculative (out of thin air) value is? They would run it to the ground before they would 'buy' a single coin, and at that point it would be useless. The government and/or media can destroy Bitcoin at any time. They've never redistributed their wealth and they're not going to start now because of cryptos-- nothing will force them into that situation, they are the ones in charge and there is no way in hell they will allow competition-- for them, everything is at stake.

This is why I mentioned Bitcoins simply disappearing. My question is a hypothetical/philosophical one.

Most people with some ideals see Bitcoin as a way for the banks/govt to stay out of our pockets-- to not allow them to take more than they already have-- this is seen as unjust. Bitcoin is seen as revolutionary by these people because of its ability to accomplish this. I happen to think that these same people acquiring so much of something for pretty much next to nothing, is also inherently unfair to those that don't, and won't do anything to redistribute the wealth from the ultra rich to the ultra poor. It is a potential revolution for the 'haves' in denial but not for the 'have nots'. They will not actually be taking anything from the super rich, and the wealth (because of the very nature of 'wealth') has to come from somewhere or be in relation to something else. That relation will only cause the poor to become poorer because they didn't gain anything of value, even if they didn't actually 'lose' anything.

True, but that still wouldn't change the fact that the richest Bitcoiners came upon an extreme amount of wealth and others did not. In fact, they came about the coins by attributing a value to them that literally comes from thin air, much in the same way as printed money.

I think that is being extremely optimistic, but even if your scenario were to prove true-- nothing in the world would change at all, so what would the point of the currency be? Maybe I'm asking too much, but in other words-- what would be so revolutionary about it?

The usage of Bitcoin, on a world scale, and relative to everything else is minimal. It has for most of its history been used for 'off the books' transactions. These transactions were often made to purchase illegal goods. Sure more people are adopting it, but mostly they are doing so to profit somehow from the Bitcoin phenomenon, not because of some profound philosophy or practical future implications. And whatever the tiny % of businesses that have adopted it is, they do not justify the attributed 'value' of any cryptocurrency, because nothing justifies a pricetag (based on fiat, btw) on what is supposed to be a method of exchange. The pricetag is nothing more than speculation.

You should treat water as the precious and very limited resource that it is. You should do your moral part as someone who lucked out in the lottery of life and try not only to not be wasteful of water, but to help those without it. Naturally you don't, you're a self-righteous scumbag who feels entitled to things simply because of a luck of the draw.


You realize the energy it takes to power your high-tech toys is taken from other parts of the world? Do you realize that people are being killed every single day, and worse yet, live horrific daily lives, because people like you feel justified in their greed by their arrogant sense of entitlement ?

If you do, you're just another asshole. If you don't, you're an idiot. I don't know which is worse.

I'm also pretty sure that you are unaware of the fact that this brand of ultra consumerism is unsustainable, and sooner or later, we'll all be fucked.


In Somalia, they probably earn 1% of what you're earning. 10% of your wage going to them would automatically increase their wealth by 1000%, while decreasing yours by 10%. So maybe you shouldn't refuse your wage, but you could put it to a use that is something other than simply hoarding for yourself? You know, like helping others. Sure, I understand that charity can be a corrupt business, and that it's sometimes better to give a fishing pole, than actual fish, but we could so much more-- instead of being so damn blind to what is happening around the world.

In relation to Somalia, one of the stated reasons by the pirates for their illegal activities is the illegal dumping of toxic waste by western nations off of their shore. The waste is a direct bi-product of western consumerism.


How about using google for something more than Bitcoin speculation and porn?

The smart would look at this as nothing more than a speculative bubble-- everything about it is a classic bubble. If they are smart, they will probably stay away. There is a difference between smart and informed. So the informed might say this isn't a bubble at all, but they will have an extremely hard time justifying that to someone who is rightfully skeptical and using their smarts.

The ordinary might only need to be made aware, but since they're already relatively late to the game, their success will depend on the people that come after them. If there are none, they will fail. The people that got in early, or have already cashed out are the only winners so far. Time will tell if anyone buying in now will profit, but the fact remains that they will drive the price up most for those who got in early. So the later they get on board the less of a potential payout exists, not only because they're late to the party, but because the more people that buy in, the less potential there is for every new 'investor'. That will make it harder to get any ordinary, smart, or even extraordinary folks to buy in.

Bitcoin is mass delusion.

Anyone who denies this is fully taking part in it.

It will keep dropping. People would have already been trying to buy up 'cheap' coins at $600-$700, but they're not.
They will continue to wait until it bottoms out at around $100.

Because it has hovered around $700 for half a day?

It's not so much my opposition to wealth disparity in general, but my concern with how Bitcoin (cryptos) can potentially make the extreme disparity we have today look a lot less extreme in the future.

You say anyone should take the chance, but my point is that not just anyone can take the chance, nor will they.

I appreciate you actually engaging in a discussion. With that said, I think your position can be questioned. You say that this is a chance for ordinary people to get a fairer share, but if self-limited cryptos are the way of the future, then aren't a very small amount of early adopters and/or the ones with enough money to invest, going to always form a very small and highly disproportionate amount of wealth holders-- as is already the case today?

Like I said, a tiny amount of the population already holds over half the total amount of Bitcoin. I'm pretty sure the disproportion in other alt-currencies is even more pronounced because they are even less known. And if the amount of potential new currencies is unlimited, then wouldn't it make their very reason for existence pointless?

You drooling buffoon, I am speculating on the future of Bitcoin.

If it matters to you so much, find the threads, and point me in the right direction. It would be so much more useful and you would make your point with one goddamn post. You would help cleanse this forum (apparently it matter to you that much!), and I would ask a moderator to close and move this thread.

Instead, like the useless waste of disgusting flesh that you are, you resort to insults and stupidity.

 

Any proportion of any group will structure itself in the same way. You will still have greedy geeks-- or are they somehow immune to human nature?

Revolutionaries become tyrants, it has always happened throughout history.

Regardless, the proportions would remain the same. Would these geeks one day, in a moment of mass enlightenment, redistribute the wealth?

And one more point-- it is no longer the just geeks, but rather geeky speculators and speculators alone who are driven by greed that are buying up the most coin and form the the majority of cryptocurrency holders.

If cryptocurrencies become the only currencies, doesn't that still leave a shitload of people behind?

Isn't every single speculator, consciously or not, hoping for that?

Not if the cryptocurrencies are dependent on technological progress/know-how. It still leads to the same scenario.

The current system has been making me sick to my stomach for quite some time. You are making assumptions that have no basis in reality. The very point of this thread is that the problems that we are currently facing will only (possibly) get worse. My numbers might be off, but even if today 1% (or 70 million) of the world population owns 90% of the money, that is still a better scenario than 1 million owning 60% of it.