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1  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 05:11:48 PM
In the future, there will be many more than 4,000 transactions per block.


Why is that?

With a max block size of 1 MB and an average of ~250 bytes per transaction, aren't we stuck with ~4000?
2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 08:28:19 AM
Okay, so someone can spend $20M to pause the network. It isn't dead and can be awoken for $1.

For $20M they can 'pause' it for a year. For $40 M they can pause it for two. How long will a currency last when it cannot be traded? How long will it last with even a vague threat that it can be paused?
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 08:22:33 AM
I don't want to discuss if this is right or not, I don't feel qualified, but I only want to point out that there's an obvious mix between bitcoins and dollars in the reasoning.

You don't have any unit in you text but, when you start, we can assume you speak in BTC (transaction fees are in BTC) then, at the end, you talk about dollars (a government spending 2 billions is in dollars, as there will never be 2 billions BTC).

Where happens the switch between btc and $? I don't know and, obviously, you don't too.

That's why, independently of its truth value, this first post is completely illogical. (and thus, we cannot make any conclusion from it).

(no, a simple translation from btc to dollars cannot be done as, if a government want to do that, they will start buying all bitcoins, raising the value of bitcoins in the process.)

You are jumping to conclusions, I was very careful with my units. The transaction fees are in dollars because USD is more stable and it is fair to call them equivalent in low amounts. The large amounts ($2 billion, for example) refer to the cost of buying the hardware, which can easily be done in USD.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 08:18:34 AM
If the attacker is PayPal or a government looking to shut down Bitcoin, isn't blocking transactions sufficient?

I don't understand how clients could detect the 'block reorganization'. Won't they always move to the longest block chain? If not, can't I create an attack without even needing 50%?
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 07:37:41 AM
From https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

Quote
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other generators from getting any generations
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / What it costs to kill Bitcoin: $20 million on: May 13, 2011, 07:08:53 AM
The amount of money miners make from mining per year: avg transaction fee * transactions per block * blocks per year + bounties in BTC generation. Bounties will eventually go away, and the value of the currency depends on its ability to be secure even when there are no bounties, so I'm going to remove them from future calculations.

Two of those numbers are fixed, so we get a maximum of: avg transaction fee * 4000 * 50,000, or avg transaction fee * 200 million.

Assuming the amount of money miners spend on hardware is <= the amount they get paid, it follows that any individual or cooperative entity can own 50% of the network's computational power for a cost <= the amount the miners get paid.

So, the cost for any individual or cooperative entity to destroy the Bitcoin network is 200 million * the average transaction fee.

If transaction fees are the equivalent of 10 cents per transaction, PayPal can spend $20 million to destroy Bitcoin. If they are $1 per transaction, PayPal can spend $200 million to destroy Bitcoin.

Even if transactions were the equivalent of $100 per transaction, it would only cost a sufficiently motivated government $20 billion to destroy the network.

Please tell me I'm wrong, because that looks pretty weak.
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