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1  Economy / Invites & Accounts / Re: Top 100 Crypto Discord Channels present Giveaway on: September 17, 2019, 06:55:24 PM
Topic is closed to reviews. Updates on the contest will be posted here.
Regards, Cravetrade Team!
2  Economy / Invites & Accounts / Top 100 Crypto Discord Channels present Giveaway on: August 19, 2019, 04:19:35 PM
 Smiley Congratulations! Smiley
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Regards, Cravetrade Team!
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Unique platform for investors on: June 27, 2018, 03:57:13 AM
A very impressive number hope we will have the desired results
4  Economy / Economics / Re: Welcome to $200M market cap on: June 09, 2011, 04:21:42 PM
I don't think we are quite ready for prime time yet. Security wise this system seems amazingly robust, the weak point is the Exchanges. There are still so few that The Corporate States of America can cripple the currency in the blink of an eye by going after exchanges. I've only heard of a handful which is very sall for an estimated user base of around 30,000 BitCoiners. This won't kill BitCoin but it will set it back significantly.
5  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 07, 2011, 09:59:47 PM
Nice interview on CBS, Jeff!

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-504943_162-1111.html

Edit:  I guess this was a live webcast, that I happened to tune into, at the right time.  Not sure where the archive is.



"The company has a public online ledger of where their currency is going and to whom so that Bitcoins can't be counterfeited. While the ledger is public, what is actually bought by BitCoin users is anyones guess as the ledger is coded and only shows how much money was spent."

Could someone inform CBS that Bitcoin isn't a company or a private organization? I couldn't figure out how to send an email to the author.

That article is riddled with errors. However this part causes me great concern:

"Garzik stopped by to talk about how his currency is being used on Silk Road, the online black market for any drug imaginable, and how he is working with the government to turn Bitcoin into a universal online currency."
6  Economy / Economics / Re: The federal bitcoin reserve. on: June 05, 2011, 04:01:09 PM
I think that could be the very worst thing for govts (from their perspective) to do in response to BitCoin. Firstly, it will lend credibility to the idea and the protocol which will result in boosting BitCoin more because it has the advantage of a head start. Secondly, one of the primary motivations behind this currency is to wrest fiscal control from huge collectivist institutions and give it back to the individual. Thirdly such a move would undermine confidence in paper money. There is no real reason why anyone would use IceCoin or BitDollars or BitPounds because it's just BitCoin without the advantages.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: how many bitcoiners are in the world on: June 04, 2011, 09:27:05 PM
Sourceforge stats report on client downloads

Total downloads
309,975

May 2011
174,184

http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/timeline?dates=2008-05-26+to+2011-06-02


Buckle up! Cool

I see there is only 1 download from Libya. I wonder if it's Qaddafi.
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A basic paper on Bitcoin ethics. Considerations for the btc community. on: June 04, 2011, 01:32:39 PM
I didn't read your article yet, but immediately reacted to the  "Bitcoin: Freedom or Anarchy?" statement/question.
Please restate this, as anarchy is indeed the ultimate form of freedom.
Definition: "absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual".

Edit: I discovered that the word 'anarchy' is also validly defined as "confusion/disorder", which is nonsense, regarding the original latin etymology saying an-archy = not-power/authority. It's a result of people successfully planting negative co-notations in a word, essentially to the point where it is adopted in the dictionary. Saying that anarchy is disorder and confusion is like saying that the word car means global warming and death.

It'd be nice if you went further than the title. Even the abstract would do. No I'm going to keep it because it fits the content and gets more attention Tongue

I won't bother reading anything with such an ignorant title, I doubt the content would be any better informed. Anarchy is defined as the absence of hierarchy and is not at all incompatible with freedom.

I read it all and it's not as extreme as you guys think it is. He's still a statist though. But I'm glad that you (phoe) acknowledge that this is the end for the state. The Bit Revolution has begun.
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Icon Sets for Windows on: June 04, 2011, 12:40:40 PM
looks nice. I'll be sure to tip. I really like the 3d gold bitcoin.

Amazing what decentralized efforts can achieve.
10  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are we getting a lot of "eastern world" coverage? on: June 04, 2011, 12:38:07 PM
Ich bin ein Bitcoiner

Like
11  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoins will die – an economics standpoint and possible solutions on: June 03, 2011, 11:00:58 AM
If you take the total amount of bitcoin in unit of Satoshi (that's 2,100,000,000,000,000) and devide by the worldwide population (6,775,235,700) based on the 2009 data from the world bank, each one of us will get 309,952.3164928417 Satoshis. More than enough, no?

Hi, The problems is not amount, but growth. If you don't allow growth AT all after some point, the currency is deflationary, meaning people start to hoard the money, because they know that there will be more goods available tomorrow but the same amount of money.
Money get worth more - what we are seeing now with bitcoins.

Ideally, the amount should be fully flexible and based on economic activity: if Bitcoins take over the world, the amount should be allowed to grow in order to make the VALUE of the currency STABLE versus the ECONOMIC ACTIVITY / GOODS AVAILABLE it constitutes.
This is now very easy to measure with bitcoins due to the computing power in the network.

Also, if the activity slows (which is highly unlikely but possible), the amount of money should be REDUCED. They could withdraw from every client the tiniest fraction on a predetermined and announced date. Basically the currency/money should always be flexible with the economy, which moves in cycles.

Fiat currently is inflationary: they print MORE than the economy grows. Thus it LOSES value. They are doing exactly the wrong thing, but they need to do it, because interest needs to be paid. If you have an interest free monetery system, you can REDUCE the amount of moeny without creating a crisis.



I was thinking about the same thing the other day. I don't know that much about economics to say for sure whether bitcoin as deflationary as it is is the best or that something less so would be better. I was thinking that if BitCoin did cause problems in the long run, its replacement might have an algorithm that adjusts creation of bitcoin due to mining according to the amount of economic activity (transactions), sorta like how difficulty adjusts right now.
12  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Re: Full Tilt Poker, Pokerstars & PDC Poker funds available in exchange for BitCoins on: June 03, 2011, 10:28:46 AM
hope to do business again soon  Smiley
13  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / How many bitcoins were there in the beginning? on: June 01, 2011, 03:01:18 PM
Does anyone know how many bitcoins there were on day 1 of bitcoin? I mean there needed to have been a seed amount not including mined coins since mining is processing transactions so other coins need to exist before mining coins are created. Who got these coins? Huh
14  Economy / Economics / Re: Did anybody considered the idea of recommending bitcoin on facebook? on: June 01, 2011, 10:40:13 AM
not my friends.. most of them are not geeky enough yet me thinks or are too busy uploading cute pictures.

But I did get some of my coworkers into it.

Me too. No one interested. I got my two house mates interested though. One has gone crazy and he wants to put all his money in it. But so far Facebook has been a fail for me too.
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What to expect from The Bitcoin Sun? on: May 31, 2011, 06:00:16 PM
@ da2ce7, a IPad and Galaxy Tab app would be great!  Any developers out there that can make a simple and effective app to view our PDF's with?  How much development cost would it take?

Question:  What would 0.05BTC per edition be like? Would that be too expensive?

Edit:  everyone will still be able to read the content on our website: thebitcoinsun.com in full.


ps. We are also going to be doing a special promotion for our next edition! Keep your eye's out! Will announce soon.

I think 0.02BTC is better. Someone new to BTC can just get 2 bitcents from the faucet and buy your pdf. Do donate to the faucet though. It's at zero right now.

Also as you get bigger you might want to look at some of the debates that have happened on this forum and maybe ask some of the more eloquent folk to write some articles for you. There is lots out there on inflation vs deflation, cryptography, politics, philosophy etc

Already sounds like an awesome news paper I'd buy Cheesy
16  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is it just me or is the Wiki down? on: May 31, 2011, 05:52:40 PM
Down for me too.

Down for this guy as well:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10853.0
17  Economy / Economics / Re: The Flaw of Supply and Demand on: May 29, 2011, 09:05:12 PM
The Flaw of Supply and Demand and it's implications for Bitcoin

Quote
The Law of Supply and Demand is usually presented in textbooks in association with a graph made up of two intersecting lines, but the graphs displayed are not identical. Some show straight lines with opposite slopes; some show curved lines, one being is some sort of inverse relationship to the other. One line represents supply, the other, demand, and the point of intersection, price. Readers are told to imagine moving one of the lines to the right or left and observe how the point of intersection changes. If the supply line is moved to the left (decreasing supply), the point of intersection (price) rises; if the supply line is moved to the right, (increasing supply), the point of intersection falls. Similar but opposite results are generated if the line of demand is similarly moved. Students are induced to conclude that as supply falls or demand rises, prices increase, and as supply rises or demand falls, prices fall. Essentially, that's all there is to this doctrine.

However, if one disassembles this doctrine, important things are revealed. The graphs sometimes show straight, sometimes curved lines. But any two intersecting lines produce the same result. The nature of the lines on the graphs is irrelevant. Since lines are made of sequences of data points, data is also irrelevant. Since the lines are arbitrary, no formula can be written that relates them to each other and, therefore, the doctrine doesn't allow anyone to make any calculations. That is, the price cannot be calculated by replacing the supply and demand variables with numbers. The supply cannot be calculated by replacing the price and demand variables with numbers, and the demand cannot be calculated by replacing the price and supply variables with numbers. Although the graph gives the impression that the relationship is mathematical, the doctrine has no mathematical applications.

I am surprised that no economist has found this curious, especially since mathematical modeling is so pervasive in today's orthodox theory. For instance, Dani Rodrik [http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2009/03/the-sorry-state-of-macroeconomics.html] has written, "The economics profession doesn't take an argument seriously until the argument can be laid out with a well-specified model that respects accepted standards of modeling. . . ." But if a well-specified model that respects accepted standards of modeling is necessary for economics to take something seriously, the Law of Supply and Demand should have been jettisoned a long time ago.

Someone may object that I have not stated the doctrine precisely, and that's true. So let's examine its terms.

Supply seems to be the easiest to understand. Let's say it means the number of units of a product available for sale, although I'm not certain that this definition is accurate. But the concept of demand is another matter altogether. First of all, using the word demand in this context is a linguistic howler. When a robber walks into a bank, points a gun at a teller, and says, "Give me the money!", s/he is making a demand. Demands are expressed in imperatives. That's not what happens in the marketplace. So what can demand mean in this context? One possibility is the number of people who need a product, as for example, the number of people who need a specific drug to maintain their lives. Another is the number of people who want a product, as for instance, the number of children who want a specific toy for Christmas. Still another is the number of people who can afford to purchase the product. But none of these is part of the doctrine as precisely stated. The precise definition of demand is the number of people who are willing to purchase a product at a specific price. But this definition destroys the doctrine, because if price alone determines the demand, supply is no longer relevant even though the supply may influence the vendor's pricing. The doctrine becomes a mere empty tautology. Furthermore is willingness to buy synonymous with buys? Isn't it possible for a person to say, "I was willing to buy it, but I was too busy to get around to it"? But the real weasel word is price.

The Law of Supply and Demand is perhaps the most frequently cited economic principle by the American press; it is cited every time an oil company raises gasoline prices. But the precise definition of price in the doctrine is "equilibrium price" which is a purely theoretical concept. What relation it has to the actual price is a mystery.

When an oil company or an economist claims that the price of gasoline is rising because of increased demand, it/he/she is weaseling. The precise claim should be that the equilibrium price is rising because of increased demand, but that is never claimed, and even if it were, it would have no relevance unless the relationship between the equilibrium price and the actual price were specified. All equilibrium price means is the price at which the number of units for sale is equal to the number of units consumers buy. But equilibrium is a fantasy. If it is ever attained in reality, the attainment is purely accidental. So the Law of Supply and Demand plays no place in the marketplace.

It is true, of course, that retailers sometimes lower prices during "sales" to rid themselves of excess products. But they do not raise prices when the number of items available decreases. The products are sold at the fixed price until they are gone or are restocked. Even oil companies function this way at the retail level. After a supply of gasoline is delivered to a filling station, the price is set and even if a long line of automobiles forms at the station, the proprietor does not dash out and increase the price to get some of the people lined up to drive away. The same is true of toy makers at Christmas. Often one new toy becomes very popular with children whose parents attempt to buy it. But toy stores do not increase the price when they notice the unexpected demand; they merely sell the toy first come, first acquired until the toy is sold out. So the Law of Supply and Demand is a principle without a practice.

Pricing is not the only method of distributing products. In times of crisis, such as wartime, products are often merely rationed. Everyone who needs a product gets a share of those available. The manufacturer makes a profit and consumers get at least some of what they need. Another distribution method is the method described in the previous paragraph. Products are distributed to consumers first come. Again the manufacturers make a profit and those consumers who get to the retailer soon enough get what they want, those who do not get none. But what would happen if the Law of Supply and Demand were applied in the market place? The vendor would raise the price as the supply diminished, the consumers who managed to acquire the product would pay more for it than they would otherwise, and the other consumers would get none no matter how essential getting some was. This scenario is identical to the previous one except that the vendor makes a larger profit at the expense of the consumer. It is merely a method of transferring wealth from consumers to vendors without providing consumers with an additional benefit. In other words, it transfers wealth from the neediest to the neediless.

This, of course, raises an important question: Why would economists advocate a method of distribution that enriches vendors at the expense of consumers? Why would they advocate an economic principle that reduces the wealth of consumers to advantage vendors? Exactly for whom does the economy exist?

The Law of Supply and Demand is an empty, tautological doctrine that is not supported by observations of the marketplace and merely serves as an excuse used by some producers to increase prices to the detriment of consumers. It is not an economic law; it is an economic flaw It is not even a legitimate idea; it is a mere notion.

by Prof. John Kozy

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13081

Quote
The model of prices being determined by supply and demand assumes perfect competition. But:
"economists have no adequate model of how individuals and firms adjust prices in a competitive model. If all participants are price-takers by definition, then the actor who adjusts prices to eliminate excess demand is not specified".[

Alan P. Kirman, "Whom or What Does the Representative Individual Represent?" Journal of Economic Perspectives, V. 6, N. 2 (Spring 1992): pp. 117-136

Quote
"If we mistakenly confuse precision with accuracy, then we might be misled into thinking that an explanation expressed in precise mathematical or graphical terms is somehow more rigorous or useful than one that takes into account particulars of history, institutions or business strategy. This is not the case. Therefore, it is important not to put too much confidence in the apparent precision of supply and demand graphs. Supply and demand analysis is a useful precisely formulated conceptual tool that clever people have devised to help us gain an abstract understanding of a complex world. It does not - nor should it be expected to - give us in addition an accurate and complete description of any particular real world market."


Goodwin, N, Nelson, J; Ackerman, F & Weissskopf, T: Microeconomics in Context 2d ed.


You want a real world example of how supply & demand affects price? Ebay & other auction sites like stub hub. In demand items command prices multiples larger than the store price. Items not so much in demand do not. This is a real world fact.

Quote

It is true, of course, that retailers sometimes lower prices during "sales" to rid themselves of excess products. But they do not raise prices when the number of items available decreases. The products are sold at the fixed price until they are gone or are restocked. Even oil companies function this way at the retail level. After a supply of gasoline is delivered to a filling station, the price is set and even if a long line of automobiles forms at the station, the proprietor does not dash out and increase the price to get some of the people lined up to drive away. The same is true of toy makers at Christmas. Often one new toy becomes very popular with children whose parents attempt to buy it. But toy stores do not increase the price when they notice the unexpected demand; they merely sell the toy first come, first acquired until the toy is sold out. So the Law of Supply and Demand is a principle without a practice.


The reason businesses operate this way is simple. Good will. Customers don't like feeling like their getting price gauged so for the sake of maintaining a good standing with customers businesses won't do that unless the swings in S&D are huge as is the case in a hyperinflationary environment.

Lastly and most tellingly, to deny S&D is to deny the existence of inflation & deflation. What is inflation but a fall in the price of money calculated in terms of commodities. So in a hypothetical example, if in 2010 in Arbitrarystan $100 "cost" one loaf of bread. In 2011 if the economy stagnated but supply of money increased (ie inflation) the $200 may "cost" one loaf of bread. Hope thats clear
18  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation once again on: May 29, 2011, 08:29:24 PM
I have a dream about the future...

Imagine, in 20 years, all people on Earth are using bitcoins and the amount of coins is fixed. Wait a moment...not fixed. It is decreasing, because:
People will inevitably lose access to their wallets. They may die and not tell a password to their wallet to anyone. They may just forget. Their harddrive may crash and they have no backup.
Or, imagine, someone has a job and brings home more money than he needs - he just hoards the rest, because that is the best form of investment in this kind of economy.
Whatever the reason, the number of coins in active use decreases.

On the other hand, the number of people is probably still increasing, because there are new technologies providing more food and better healthcare.

This future is impossible. Economy cannot reasonably work when there is constant deflation. No one is motivated to invest and take risks.

If bitcoin stays the same as it is today, it will NOT become the main currency in the future, because this future is impossible.

The idea of digital currency is great, but the current coin generation is flawed. It must be repaired. I do not know how, but it should be tied to the amount of subjects using it or the amount of coins exchanged for actual goods or services in the recent past. I do not know if that is technically possible. If not, even connecting the generation rate to the current exchange rate of BTC/USD or other physical currency would be better than the current way.


What Bitcoin needs most are sellers and buyers of actual goods. None of them are motivated right now to use Bitcoins. On the other hand, investors and hoarders are motivated a lot.

If the situation does not change soon, the bubble will burst and there will be a lot of upset users and Bitcoin 2.0 with different rules will appear...

The problem with you and the other deflation alarmists is that you are looking at BitCoin from a statist perspective. All of your arguments assume that there is only one currency in use in a particular economy (ie a monopoly). In that case I'd agree that deflation is harmful. But why assume such a scenario? Despite all its advantages, BTC will never have 100% currency market share. It might become the most widely used but there will still be competitors (Renmimbi, Canadian dollar, Aussie dollar, Brazil Real, gold, silver,sea shells). So too much deflation or inflation (i.e. volatility) will affect the relative competitive advantage that the currencies in circulation have with each other. Market forces will react to a deflating BitCoin by reducing demand, thereby resulting in a market determined optimal rate of inflation/deflation. Not some rate the so called "experts" at the central bank, issue by decree.
19  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / A preview of US Govt reaction to BitCoin! on: May 29, 2011, 03:00:45 AM
I saw this article on the nytimes.com about how China reacted to the explosion in use of gaming currencies in China. I see parallels with bitcoin

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/technology/internet/01yuan.html

Quote
Published: June 30, 2009

SHANGHAI — The buying and selling of the make-believe currencies used in online gaming has become so widespread that Chinese authorities fear it will affect the real economy.

Quote
The coin of fantasy realms have already moved markets here. So-called QQ coins — a form of currency produced by the Chinese Internet giant Tencent — have sometimes risen sharply in value against China’s official currency, the renminbi, alarming officials at the nation’s Central Bank.

Some people have even traded virtual currencies in China, and exchanged them for clothes, cosmetics and other goods.

Last year, nearly $2 billion in virtual currency was traded in China, according to the China Internet Network Information Center. Some experts say they believe there is a much larger underground economy in the virtual world.
20  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Second Life citizens dump SLL for bitcoins on virvox on: May 26, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
Now is the time to go into bitcoin. After gavin talks at the CIA the mainstream media will start talking about it. Then the drug money comes in.

KACHIIING$$$$$
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