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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: September 25, 2013, 04:53:20 PM
18:36:09 (153338) <percent> I'm DONE. pulling back 2976 coins. NEW RULES KILLED ME.


UTTERY STUPIDITY  TO CHASE THE WHALE AWAY.

WE WOULD HAVE BEEN +10,000 TODAY.

I love that no one sees that if indeed this was a cheat and/or inside job this is the ultimate way to disguise an exit. Things were getting too hot, how to maintain credibility and yet keep most profits? give back a bit, reinforce the red herring ideas that this was about max bet size, and keep the 13k coins you won while not affecting the credibility of the site.

Sorry, but this is hilarious to watch. I hope I'm wrong but expect this will end in tears for 'investors' that aren't part of the JD team.

Let me guess the next moves:

1) investors go back to making some slow but steady money again. Faith is restored. More money comes in to the pool (who doesn't like easy money?).

2) another whale or set of smaller but not trivial 'gamblers' start defying the odds and investors lose all of that money plus some.

and/or

3) suddenly all money is lost, no one ever hears from JD again. Who can do anything about it?
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: September 24, 2013, 11:04:47 PM
As for the calls to "change something", if he's cheating then limiting the maximum bet won't stop him winning, and if he isn't cheating and is just lucky then limiting the maximum bet will only slow his inevitable losses.  I don't see how it helps in either case.

I disagree with dooglus on this point. Now the investors are in the situation they cannot understand if nakowa is cheating or not, because with large bets what happened in these days is still somehow plausible. Indeed, if you run some simulations as elm did 242962.msg3222672#msg3222672date=1379981987 you can see that few times nakowa is winning. However if you run the same simulations with a much smaller max bet, like 0.01% or so, but the same amount of wagered money, you may check that the same behavior is ridiculously improbable. If he is cheating he would surely reveal the cheat on a lower max bet (less than 1 euro) and the website must surely be stopped.

Note that even if he is not cheating (which is what I think) the kelly criterion is known to be quite aggressive (in the world of poker online for example), and again if you run some max betting simulations you may see that some of them are quite scary from the point of view of an investor.

Of course I cannot make other important considerations on lowering the max bet, maybe we are to the point that investors could vote for it, for example.


And yet the simplest explanation for this is that he knows how/what nakowa is doing and why...again, just sayin' here...why is it so hard to be somewhat conservative and pull your money from the site? Why are people so driven to ignore red flags? yes, it could be legit, or a shadow business operating with a giant conflict of interest and security hole, is indeed untrustworthy. Why risk it? for what gains?

GREED!

Jeez. It's just variance, nakowas bankroll is orders of magnitude bigger than the average player's, the max bet is high and the house edge very low.

Plus, if you'd taken the time to read the many contributions of dooglus to this forum and to study his project JD you would realize there is no "shadow business" here.

He seems very articulate, smart, and reasonable, yes. And again, I am not outright accusing him or them of anything, but those are all perceptions, and reality (the facts) is telling us there's something wrong here. Not even the PnL of this 'whale' but the fact that there's this gaping security hole/conflict of interest. A good con(fidence) man gains your (take a guess) CONFIDENCE!

W/E though, do what you will, tis your money.

PS Have I mentioned, I really, really like the site (seriously, except for that pesky problem mentioned above)
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: September 24, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
As for the calls to "change something", if he's cheating then limiting the maximum bet won't stop him winning, and if he isn't cheating and is just lucky then limiting the maximum bet will only slow his inevitable losses.  I don't see how it helps in either case.

I disagree with dooglus on this point. Now the investors are in the situation they cannot understand if nakowa is cheating or not, because with large bets what happened in these days is still somehow plausible. Indeed, if you run some simulations as elm did 242962.msg3222672#msg3222672date=1379981987 you can see that few times nakowa is winning. However if you run the same simulations with a much smaller max bet, like 0.01% or so, but the same amount of wagered money, you may check that the same behavior is ridiculously improbable. If he is cheating he would surely reveal the cheat on a lower max bet (less than 1 euro) and the website must surely be stopped.

Note that even if he is not cheating (which is what I think) the kelly criterion is known to be quite aggressive (in the world of poker online for example), and again if you run some max betting simulations you may see that some of them are quite scary from the point of view of an investor.

Of course I cannot make other important considerations on lowering the max bet, maybe we are to the point that investors could vote for it, for example.


And yet the simplest explanation for this is that he knows how/what nakowa is doing and why...again, just sayin' here...why is it so hard to be somewhat conservative and pull your money from the site? Why are people so driven to ignore red flags? yes, it could be legit, or a shadow business operating with a giant conflict of interest and security hole, is indeed untrustworthy. Why risk it? for what gains?

GREED!
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: September 24, 2013, 09:34:52 PM
Can someone explain to me why a site that allows the house to have both seeds/keys and can use that information against player money 'invested' in the bank's position, wouldn't be suspected of being a scam? Per your SD and other statistical analysis, it could easily manipulated by the con in several ways. One way would be to intentionally lose a number of bets to create a distribution to their liking and simply betting more less times.

To me it seems like a perfect setup for a con. I'm not saying it is a con, but if I were a betting man....

Just-Dice is suspected of being a scam by some.  Barely a day goes by without me seeing someone saying "dooglus == nakowa".  Mostly they're joking, but it's certainly on people's minds.

Personally, if I was going to make a 2nd account to win the investor's money with I don't think I would make it an account with such a forum presence.  nakowa has set up a competing dice site, closed it, then funded the IPO of a 2nd competing dice site almost singlehandedly, posted threads in which he offers to sell his 'strategy', and made a huge amount of noise on the site.  He argues with me in threads here too.

That seems like an awful lot of work to go to in order to steal from the investors.  If I was wanting to steal from the investors it would be a lot easier to do it from an account that never speaks in the chat and has no forum presence.

Even easier than that would be to run an honest site and collect commissions week after week.  That's the plan.  I hope it will work out in the long run.  Geese, golden eggs, etc.

You're clearly a very intelligent and well spoken person, and I do respect the concept and execution behind the site, but it would be much better to remove this potential conflict of interest altogether. I don't see the necessity to have outside 'investors' since it's one of the biggest credibility destroyers about your business. Conflicts of interest are no good. Even if you're not cheating, who's to say someone on your team isn't?

Also, not saying this is the case, but all of this publicity, public speaking, etc can be a good source of red herrings to keep people believing longer (keep the con going) as well as bring in more cash.

Also, there would be no way to steal from a quiet account, it would be noticed and its silence would be even more suspicious. Putting a face to this 'whale' is far more convincing that at the very least 'cheating' isn't going on (another credibility destroyer). You also can't steal from a bunch of small accounts because that would make the game look systemically broken (statistically, versus a loss based on variance).

Again, I have no proof here, but the red flags should be a deal breaker for intelligent people. That you're able to continue operating despite this glaring security hole/conflict of interest, makes me believe that even if you are fooling people, you've earned it. If people have been warned and still do it, they're greedy and foolish, and deserve to be parted with their money.
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: September 24, 2013, 03:10:38 AM
Can someone explain to me why a site that allows the house to have both seeds/keys and can use that information against player money 'invested' in the bank's position, wouldn't be suspected of being a scam? Per your SD and other statistical analysis, it could easily manipulated by the con in several ways. One way would be to intentionally lose a number of bets to create a distribution to their liking and simply betting more less times.

To me it seems like a perfect setup for a con. I'm not saying it is a con, but if I were a betting man....
6  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Wave of USD deflation? on: July 09, 2013, 04:42:23 PM
I think we're about to see a strong USD move based on inevitable game theory around Europe's situation. They, like Japan, will have to loosen monetary and even fiscal policy to stave off depression which will comparatively raise the dollar against the euro. Also, I wouldn't be surprised that as global growth slows gold is being liquidated to pay the bills, as is land. Energy supply is very high and has plenty of excess capacity (including in the US), so commodities are having a tough go.

I'd expect bitcoin to strengthen vs the euro on similar logic.
7  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin is Dead on: July 06, 2013, 08:56:01 PM
1 BTC will become 1 US Dollar.
If you want, i put a bet on this. All my coins!

what are you basing this conclusion on? If you can predict prices of assets this well and with this much certainty than I should assume you are already a multi-billionaire Smiley
8  Economy / Speculation / Re: Lost my faith on: July 03, 2013, 10:50:08 PM
I have great faith in Bitcoin's concept and the crypto behind it. I have no faith in the majority of Bitcoin's users and developers to have an inkling about who and what they're up against.

me too

which perhaps is better lest they decide not to travel down the road otherwise. this thing needs numbers.
9  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin is Dead on: July 03, 2013, 04:00:51 AM
I'm sorry but I'm failing to understand the principle concept the OP is espousing. Let me see if this is approximately correct: because regular people can't mine bitcoins trust will be undermined and the whole network will die.

Why? How is this a scam? Some people have resources to mine and some don't (as is the natural order of everything). The P2P nature of the payment system itself, the rate at which coin is produced, the security of the network and your coins are still fine. You just can't profitably mine them yourself. So most of the coins will be mined in China...and? How does that affect me as a saver/spender of bitcoin? It doesn't as far as I can see. I can't print USD or mine gold or anything similar now and it doesn't affect my use of currency at all. I still receive and spend as I like.

If the argument is that 2-3 players will control the market? really? why? what about competition? if I see my neighbor making a fortune with his ASIC factory, won't I build one too? And as the market floods with ASIC devices, so what? the rate of production will remain constant as is algorithmically determined.

If however the OP is right that only a couple of makers will stranglehold bleeding edge technology and hoard it, then truly all the eggs are in one scary basket.


My point is not that. Mining got peoples interests, and that will be lost. Not the coin itself, what will be lost is the P2P system.

First you lose miners, then you lose the P2P advantage.

What you say about factories, may be in a normal unlimited market. Bitcoins are not unlimited, and it could go under before that ever happens, or it would be to late to make profitable devices in your factory.

Losing the P2P advantage of being a distributed network is a huge drawback.

Also, you assume everyone will get an ASIC device like going to a store. This was not true last year, its not true this year and probably will not be true next year.

The only ones making a profit with ASIC devices will the ones having at least XX devices ready to be hooked as soon as they can.

Who controls the ASIC chips, will control the supply chain and bitcoin mining.

You assume things in the future, while I assume things that are happening as we speak.

I hear you, but I guess I'm less worried about this monopolistic fragile state (despite the logical incentives you've laid out). Do we have any numbers on ASIC distribution/concentration?
10  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin is Dead on: July 02, 2013, 11:18:36 PM
I'm sorry but I'm failing to understand the principle concept the OP is espousing. Let me see if this is approximately correct: because regular people can't mine bitcoins trust will be undermined and the whole network will die.

Why? How is this a scam? Some people have resources to mine and some don't (as is the natural order of everything). The P2P nature of the payment system itself, the rate at which coin is produced, the security of the network and your coins are still fine. You just can't profitably mine them yourself. So most of the coins will be mined in China...and? How does that affect me as a saver/spender of bitcoin? It doesn't as far as I can see. I can't print USD or mine gold or anything similar now and it doesn't affect my use of currency at all. I still receive and spend as I like.

If the argument is that 2-3 players will control the market? really? why? what about competition? if I see my neighbor making a fortune with his ASIC factory, won't I build one too? And as the market floods with ASIC devices, so what? the rate of production will remain constant as is algorithmically determined.

If however the OP is right that only a couple of makers will stranglehold bleeding edge technology and hoard it, then truly all the eggs are in one scary basket.
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