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When I bought in to this group buy I certainly expected 10 GH/s per share in the same way I expect my stocks or home to go up in value. But after seeing the exchange rates fall, I can't blame akw for doing what was necessary to recoup the loss. Did anyone seriously expect akw to pay $10,000 or more out of pocket to maintain your hashrates? Did anyone expect akw to take a hard financial loss just so you could profit? I hope everyone realizes how ridiculous that sounds.
He made a reasonable and fair decision in order to maintain the group buy itself. Communications issues notwithstanding, it would be prudent to remember that fact before adding page after page of complaining in this thread.
Just my 0.02BTC
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Username: techalyst
Shares: 1
Sent 0.05 BTC from 1DvD7pVeBfgZvYeeqh9cV2hsc5tmXRnGa3
TxID: ced28e63f96b1bbcc067e8bebdfba0a72c32ce2d16607dd7317f56ee3c1ec445
I confirm my address and shares on the spreadsheet. |
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anykeywhy and SebastianJu: once again I just want to say thanks for coordinating this group buy. This is my first group buy and also my introduction into seriously using bitcoin but I've run a business before and I know how difficult it is to deal with customer complaints when they also attempt to publicly damage your reputation in the process. If possible I'm willing to assist you in whatever you need help with. I don't have a lot of time every day and I'm not sure what you need but if there is anything, just send me a PM and let's talk.
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The answer isn't quite simple. That's for obvious reasons: - if KnC doesn't supply the exact specifications for the machine, we can't know the exact amount of GH/s per share and even we can't do that till the shipment date or so; - Since KnC accepts only dollars, the exact price will be determined at the moment of the final buying. Same thing would happen if #2 order does not complete for any reason. FYI: I own another order (#3) that eventually will be used if this may grant any advantage for all of us. But please keep in mind that this isn't the moment for such kind of "probability of probabilities ponderation" but is the right time to exactly see what we are capable to do, or not. - I haven't ANY control on Bitcoin exchanges rates. Sure I act in the best interest of everybody, having this in mind and doing my best for our own profit too. If that doesn't satisfy your requests, please feel free, with a bit of "understanding" on what a charge of futile work would mean for me, inbox my PM & I'll try to answer as almost always I do (even for inconsistent questions usually!)  We shouldn't loose the focus on our primary mission, so it would be better to delay this kind of thoughts/speculations to a more appropriate time or to another dedecated topic. Thanks & Cheers! -akw- I realize speculating on BTC rates is futile and I would not ask you to pay up due to falling exchange rates. My primary concern however is that I am not asked to pay more after already having sent my 0.05 BTC. This is mainly because I am a newbie who did not have the good fortune of mining bitcoins when it was easy to do so. I have to transfer USD to get bitcoins. I would understand if you have to reduce the size of my share due to falling rates. This is just how the market works. However, the option of renegotiating or refunds would be nice. Thanks for your hard work. |
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It's only because of the actual Bitcoin fluctuation (next to the week-end), KnC accepts only dollars, as you know! For that reason the time-factor would be so important! What's the plan if the USD/BTC keeps falling like it is now ($590/BTC)? We purchased thinking 0.05 BTC = 10+ GH/s. If you release more 0.05 BTC shares to make up the miner value in USD, will we get less than 10 GH/s per share? I would also like to know the answer to this. And if there is an effect, will it affect Order 1 which has already been full and complete? Thanks, -rj I would also like to know the answer to this. In other word... You said 300 shares by unit. I bought 3 shares of unit #1. Will I have 1% of the dividends ? Hello anykeywhy. Can you answer the questions quoted above? I am also interested in the answer. |
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Username: techalyst
Shares: 1
Sent 0.05 BTC from 1DvD7pVeBfgZvYeeqh9cV2hsc5tmXRnGa3
TxID: ced28e63f96b1bbcc067e8bebdfba0a72c32ce2d16607dd7317f56ee3c1ec445
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Update: Coinbase now provides a verification process for getting BTC within seconds rather than 4 days. Seems really good but I don't have the appropriate credit card.  Other options are localbitcoins.com, cashintocoins.com, and bitcoinget.com. |
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I'm dying to buy a single share right now but don't have the means of getting the BTC quick enough. It sucks to be a noob!  Hopefully by the time I get it, this group buy will still be open. |
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Vircurex may be an option. Haven't heard any pluses or minuses about them yet. But it does not look like they are on the same scale with BTC-E.
I'll keep my eye on them. Their only method of funding (VouchX) has been discontinued so at the moment there is now way to transfer USD to Vircurex. |
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If you are from the EU, i would recommend bitcoin.de. Sure, it takes quite a time to verificate and you can not deposit euros. But it is a safe and secure! There is a official bank helping the site and in a few weeks instantly trading should be possible (by creating real bank account with a small interest rate).
On the other hand I trade on btc-e. I don't really care about getting euro/dollars in or out there, because I use bitcoins. Costs 0.001btc and takes at max a one hour.
PS: I only went to btc.e, because it was the largest exchange which handels altcoins. Because i wanted to buy primecoins, I bought an extra 5btc 1,5month ago hihi.
I am not in the EU so I don't have the option of bitcoin.de sadly. But it looks like i won't be able to buy altcoins directly. |
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I can't answer your question directly but I can warn you about some things. First I recommend you do not use CampBX at this time. There seem to be complaints accumulating from all sides and their support is non-existent. Coinbase seems to have mixed reviews, mostly people saying their order was cancelled without adequate explanation and usually after BTC goes up it seems, making it look a little shady. But to my knowledge people aren't having the disappearing fund issue like CampBX has. Wire transfers into BTC-e seem dangerous. I have seen numerous reports of those disappearing and some of them with very high dollar amounts. MtGox is a dinosaur and if you are talking about US dollars don't even bother with that exchange.
BTC-e has a number of funding options including stuff I never heard of so one of those might work. EGOpay and OKpay look like legit options but then you have the issue of how to fund your EGOpay or OKpay account. I am pretty sure one of them can be funded through paypal but then you have fees, fees, fees. Still though fees is preferable to funds that disappear.
Maybe someone will chime in with a better option.
It seems that you're right about the fees, fees, fees. The various payment sites that can be used by BTC-E are really more like e-wallets. You have to go through other currency exchange sites after that, setting up 3-4 online accounts in the process. So your money trail looks more like Bank Account / Credit Card > PayPal > TechnoCashier > Perfect Money > BTC-E. It gets worse though. Some of these sites explicitly say they don't serve US citizens. Others don't have SSL certificates. The ones that do may not be verifiable. Some of the referral links direct you to sites without an SSL even though typing in the URL directly would give you encryption. On top of that, I tried to type some of these addresses in directly to find their sites with SSL turned on and what do ya know - I get "Domain Seized by the Global Illicit Financial Team".  It seems I'm going to have to stay away from BTC-E for depositing real money until they support a payment system I can trust. I wonder hard it is to set up a trustworthy USA based coin exchange... |
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Ah crap. I recently set up an account with CoinMkt...
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Thanks. I actually took a look at CampBX initially but something felt a little "off" about it so I kept looking. BTC-E wire transfers require a minimum of $2k USD so I definitely wasn't going to do that either. After reading some complaints about OKpay, I got a little frustrated and decided to ask the question. Certainly people are buying bitcoin with good experiences from somewhere right?
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I recently signed up for a few exchanges (Coinbase, MtGox, and BTC-E). In the first two cases I noticed a couple of downers. Coinbase doesn't allow you to deposit USD before buying BTC, making the process unreasonably long. MtGox only lets you buy BTC and requires a ridiculous amount of verification. BTC-E seems to be a good balance but I'm having a hard time choosing a payment processor to use for transferring USD.
Can anyone chime in on safe/reputable sites to use for transferring USD? Or possibly any other safe/reputable exchanges for buying BTC and altcoins?
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Have you made money using multi-pool? |
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Not saying you should buy and you are right there is a lot of risk and even a small delay can mean a lifetime loss BUT those calculators somewhat idiotically assume exponential growth forever. If you take that calculator and extend it out two years it would be predicting that mining will use more energy than all other purpose by the human race combined. The electrical costs would be something on the order of $340M USD per BTC. So not exactly realistic.
The calculator is only as good as the assumptions. Garbage in, garbage out. So it is up to you to adjust the parameters to what you think is realistic. At some point it will become increasingly difficult to keep doubling the network every month so changing the calculator to show a certain increase in difficulty (X hundreds of millions) per month is more realistic.
I'm not certain of the implications of that scenario. If network speed can't keep up with the difficulty increases, then the difficulty drops right? It seems like this scenario would only happen if people stop mining. Maybe I should look into building my own ASIC miner instead... |
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Hello all,
So I'm reading up all I can about BTC. I looked into mining a while back before ASICS started shipping and got a little sticker shock so I walked away. After the US gov decided to leave BTC alone, I'm thinking it might be a good idea again. However...I need a little sanity check on what I've read/concluded:
My understanding is that profitability for CPU/GPU mining is little to none. Mainly due to block difficulty vs. costs of your rig/electricity rates (though mine are pretty good at $0.053 per KWh). Even if you manage to mine some BTC and hope for the value to increase over time to net you some profit, the difficulty increases make it that much harder to mine further while your costs continue. So your only hope is to mine while your hardware can handle the calculations and then stop altogether while waiting for BTC valuation to go up - then sell.
From my reading, this process seems to ring true for ASICS as well. I have run several scenarios using the mining dashboard on genesis block and in almost every case I would only have 4-6 months of profitability under the assumption that the hardware arrives immediately. In most cases I have found that companies are shipping the next batch of products in March, making profitability for miners very low if there's any at all. I've also looked at some of the price vs. difficulty charts on these forums - meaning not only that profit has to be made within 6 months but getting the most out of your hardware will require a combination of mining vs. buying at the right moments where pricing is high compared to difficulty or vice versa.
In any case, is all the above accurate? If so, how can a budget conscious miner make any money? It seems that not only do I have to drop at least a few grand USD for decent hardware but also find a shop that will ship it immediately if I'm to make any money at all. Is my only chance for making money in buying/selling BTC or mining alt-coins?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
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