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Hello everyone.
Long time no see!
I promised to never come back on this forum , simply because would have been pointless and toxic for me fighting against the suchmoon gang (How are you lady btw ? Enjoying the bull I guess
).
The reason is because I got tagged as scammer even when one of our first algorithms, Arakne the market maker, was ruling BitcoinTalk with 6-7 months of 100% win ratio (diary’s link in signature for who is interested in reading the full story).
Never a loss for such a long time, users defending the service all over the place, yet I was the scammer because refused to bend the knees to the MERIT RULERS. That’s when I understood there were simply 0 odds for me of winning an argument against people that are protecting their interests or that just hated me. Honestly, I can admit that sometimes I crossed the thin line between cleverness and arrogance, provoking the gang.
Anyway what I did is let 1 of you, HCP , use the platform for FREE, hoping that he would take time to first understand how a service works then report back without any bias.
Actually, the important point was he understanding the platform, because reports are already available publicly here for every genesis bot:
https://t.me/BotHIVE_io
https://t.me/BotHive
We have nothing to hide, everything is public on bothive, from trades to chat.
Sadly, my hope for HCP learning never realized. What I see here is instead diary of someone that wanted to fail.
Finally bellow min bankroll ? You are surprised it took so long ? That’s a bias mindset which leads to bias results. A self fulfilling prophecy.
You also failed to report how many times your bot lost by shakeout while most of us won the same trade. An example your very last trade.
https://i.imgur.com/XVVCqHH.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/C4JVqnm.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/821JuIe.mp4
As you can see, you’re the only one that lost that trade, other than genesis of course, which trades at 0% extra stop. Nevertheless the loss was reported in trade history and graphs show it.
However , even considering the numerous shakeouts you suffered, I cannot recognise Manticore’s equity line in your personal trade history chart’s final half. Manticore in December 2020 was on all time high in BTC of 42000+% ROI , then its shorts were hunted, but nevertheless it recovered and reached all time high in USD on April 2021.
Amarok, our stop hunter, is on a different cycle than Manticore which is a scalper and was on ATH both BTC and USD this month.
Hydra is a pre-breakout accumulation/distribution algo which went crazy in January while Manticore was suffering the losing shorts and now retracing.
Disclaimer: the charts are BACKTEST which track 1 BTC set as starting bankroll for the bot at January 2019, they not represent actual BTC inside BotHIVE.
I don’t know if you manually aborted positions in loss that were later won, or switched between bots with wrong timing or had just enough extra stop to skew your risk reward but still get shakeout , but what I see in your trade history is not reflecting the official trade history of GENESIS with extra stop 0%, which I remind, is freely accessible by everyone here https://t.me/BotHIVE_io or here https://t.me/BotHive .
I will summarise all points you should have understood , and that are repeated and demonstrated constantly in our community:
1. Markets and Algos present on bothive move in loops of greed and fear. You can also call it Bulls & Bears, but doesn’t change the substance. That’s how ALL markets work, you don’t need to be a trader to know that BTC likes to do -60%/-80% periodically then goes into huge green rallies. That is done on purpose to shake weak hands in deep red and then force them to FOMO IN during the bull market , losing precious coins at every iteration.
SAME EXACT CONCEPT APPLIES FOR ALGOS.
You can argue that algorithms on bothive are not important as I tell, but imagine for a second they are and ask yourself:
Why should the algos that represent the market behave differently than the market itself ?
2. Markets are powered by a few dozen main algorithms that constantly take liquidity from dumb traders that don’t know them. They work as self fulfilling prophecies. Prediction and event are in a circular relationship, according to which the prediction generates the event and the event verifies the prediction. Until someone that knows the algo gets greedy and has big enough liquidity to manipulate them, they will never lose, that’s why the high win ratio.
3. Market loves to trigger liquidity injection from long term winners’ stops.
I read that someone complains about the original risk reward of the bots, which btw are :
Manticore = 0.207
Amarok = 0.262
Hydra = 1.093
Arakne had way to small risk reward for bitcoin, which compared to traditional stock markets has such a low liquidity that can be manipulated a lot easier. For this reason the algo has been delisted.
Is important to point out that we utilise AI and genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots. Means that the risk reward is not something in our control and is identified by AI itself. User can lower it with extra stop tho, to not lose on shakeouts, but that also means smaller wins every time.
Since the risk reward and consequently the genesis stops(0% extra stop) are identified by the AI, it means THAT GENESIS STOP is the most profitable long term. read it again. The stop that is hunted is the most profitable. That is the reason why you get shakeout by so little while who has extra stop wins the same trade most of time.
Because market knows that triggering your manticore’s short and then having the strength to push price at genesis stop, will 100% find a lot of liquidity from long term winners willing to buy-out at market positions in order to protect their capital and consequently filling manipulator’s exits). Just like a fisher-man is not interested in keeping small fishes but only the big ones, the same way a manipulator is only interested in shaking out algos with fat wallets because coming from huge win streaks killing dumb traders left and right.
4. As in nature, there’s no life without death . You want 100 % win ratio for each bot ? SORRY ! That would be the death of markets. THE DEATH!
Because a perfect Utopia in nature is not only impossible and not sustainable , but extremely dangerous. I would advise on reading about the American ethologist John Calhoun and his experiments with rats. He gave them paradise, and that killed every single colony at every take of the experiment. Nature doesn’t want that from us and markets follow nature’s laws.
For this reason , no matter how important an algorithm is, it will have to lose sometimes short term just to keep being profitable endlessly. Why ? Because otherwise we would run out of losers ! They would eventually go bankrupt or join winning side and stay there.
Instead what market did to survive by nature’s laws ? The exact same thing LIFE did on the planet: IT SPLIT INTO PIECES(the few dozen algos)
From 1 common ancestor we reached an exponential species diversification. Why ? Well, you get it, to survive death of individual and even species extinction which as we saw are MANDATORY and ultimately continue the path on which life always exists under some form! Same way market wants you to feel fear and quit algos or sell your btc at the end of a bear market which took 80% of your liquidity, so you can die and let others prosper.
5.Did you ever observed how these algos lose ? By manipulation that brings huge profit to manipulator and at the same time saves the algo from extinction. (Point 4).
But what is a manipulation ? It simply takes someone strong enough that knows the algo ( because he/they run it too!) and with big enough liquidity to challenge the self fulfilling prophecy and take a bite of the huge liquidity that accumulates during win streaks. If you challenge Amarok which has 98% win ratio, it means you ( manipulator) have 2% odds of winning the trade. With such a small chance of success, manipulator’s reward must be insanely high. What’s manipulator trade? Same entry as algo but stop at its exits with take profit at the algo’s stop. The exact opposite trade.
How many times have we seen algos miss the profitable exit by literally few dollars then go straight to genesis stop, trigger liquidity then eventually complete the original trade with the help of all stops that meanwhile accumulated at the wick that just missed the exit? Almost every time algo lost should be your honest answer. That’s the manipulation that fucks with your mind the most and is the most common, because you literally missed your profit taking then lost by little just to see trade complete without you. Frustration, fear, blood, all juicy for the market!
A second type of manipulation is when as soon bot triggers , market bounces in opposite direction, then the rest is the same as the most common manipulation.
Without the hand of manipulator, all trades would complete instantly ( how many times have we closed positions in seconds even ? )
6. You can fight manipulator and protect the prophecy by averaging your position. That is done by doubling down your position at fibonacci 0.618 between algos’ entry and genesis stop. I will not go in here why 0.618 is such an important value, but is the constant of the universe.
Since in every trade there are 2 sides, there are also two 0.618, one for the long projection and one for the short projection. So we are talking about 0.382 and 0.618. Lastly you have a final double down , which is where manipulator wants the algo to get stopped and fill his exits. If he wants you to buy out your position with force, maybe is better do the opposite if you have good enough extra stop because eventually price will test your average entry giving you opportunity to get out without loss and gain hedge on the algo that already lost.
Study your trade history and you can see that could have at least got out in even in the trades you lost, because market always retrace to the avg entry obtained by the double downs. Thats why triangles form! Here a few screenshots of different manipulation all following same patterns:
7.Just like you might advice newcomers of bitcoin to NOT buy all at once their coins, especially on top of massive rallies up, is simple statistical and mathematical advantage to apply dollar cost averaging. Same exact concept can be applied with algos. If you want to increase bankroll(or increase max risk or decrease extra stop), the right statistical moment is when algo took a loss and there’s fear. If you want to decrease bankroll(or decrease max risk or increase extra stop), the right statistical moment is during massive win streaks. Is not rocket science , yet the market and loop of fear and greed tempt weak minds into doing the opposite. Exiting when you see losses and increase capital during winning streaks when you feel “this algo will never lose”.
8. Another advice you might give to crypto newcomers is to diversificate among several coins. Same concept applies to algos and that’s why the very first sentence on bothive.io homepage is :
“Build Synthetic Asset Diversification while accumulating Bitcoin”
If we are right and there are a set number of algos that fight each other short term but long term they are all profitable on their own, than the most logic decision is to run them all at same time with balanced bankrolls. Did you see how when your manticore lost , Amarok the stop hunter made several wins ? Is not random. The only way to defeat the loop of fear and greed, is by running all algos. That way you will be part of a self fulfilling ecosystem in which maybe today 1 account loses but 2 wins. Tomorrow the opposite. And in 1 year, they are all in profit because you held during the fear and the greed, just the way you hold your BTC when it goes to shit periodically.
9. Algos equity line follow patterns and respect fibonacci. How cool is that ? Here a few examples that as everything, can be found with bigger details in our telegram:
Breakouts, supports, resistances, trend lines, triangles, fibonacci. All can be used to gain hedge on the algo, to understand what are good entry and exit points.
For example every time there’s a new ATH in USD after a loss, that acts as a breakouts and it means the bot will do a win streak.
On BotHIVE we all share the same destination, but everyone has a different journey because MONEY MANAGEMENT IS THE KEY of any investment.
None can set your MM because what works for me might not work for you.
Platform allows you to set your MAX RISK per position, and to have a different stop than genesis thanks to EXTRA STOP. You can set trailing stops , automatic market exits ecc.
Your bot, your journey.
Very soon also the automatic averaging of position while protecting the prophecy will also be released, a feature that if enabled allows your bot to double down at the magic 0.618s and drop the extra position at the new averaged entry. At every iteration, the risk reward on the trade improves.
10. Why use stops then if they get hunted ? Because of the bot cycles of bear and bull. At some point every bear market ends and a massive winning streak not only recovers the loss of the bear but creates new highs. Using stops and consequently leverage intensifies the compound and the power of the win streak. In the end is more profitable to lose sometime and use leverage than the opposite. Once again , market pushes for the loop of fear and greed so it can mess with weak minds. Does it sound familiar ?
Lastly some closure…
I only wrote this because I think is fair that in a debate all parties should be allowed to express their points of view.
I have also no doubt that this post of mine will be reported to mods and deleted for some stupid reason, just like happened in the past a lot of times.
Our dev team is busier than ever and we are working at amazing features coming up this year, so really no time to fight you ladies and gentlemen .
For the above reasons , I will no longer reply to this thread nor follow it up.
Good luck to all of you, and remember, you only lose when you give up, in life as in markets.
Long time no see!
I promised to never come back on this forum , simply because would have been pointless and toxic for me fighting against the suchmoon gang (How are you lady btw ? Enjoying the bull I guess
).The reason is because I got tagged as scammer even when one of our first algorithms, Arakne the market maker, was ruling BitcoinTalk with 6-7 months of 100% win ratio (diary’s link in signature for who is interested in reading the full story).
Never a loss for such a long time, users defending the service all over the place, yet I was the scammer because refused to bend the knees to the MERIT RULERS. That’s when I understood there were simply 0 odds for me of winning an argument against people that are protecting their interests or that just hated me. Honestly, I can admit that sometimes I crossed the thin line between cleverness and arrogance, provoking the gang.
Anyway what I did is let 1 of you, HCP , use the platform for FREE, hoping that he would take time to first understand how a service works then report back without any bias.
Actually, the important point was he understanding the platform, because reports are already available publicly here for every genesis bot:
https://t.me/BotHIVE_io
https://t.me/BotHive
We have nothing to hide, everything is public on bothive, from trades to chat.
Sadly, my hope for HCP learning never realized. What I see here is instead diary of someone that wanted to fail.
Finally bellow min bankroll ? You are surprised it took so long ? That’s a bias mindset which leads to bias results. A self fulfilling prophecy.
You also failed to report how many times your bot lost by shakeout while most of us won the same trade. An example your very last trade.
https://i.imgur.com/XVVCqHH.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/C4JVqnm.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/821JuIe.mp4
As you can see, you’re the only one that lost that trade, other than genesis of course, which trades at 0% extra stop. Nevertheless the loss was reported in trade history and graphs show it.
However , even considering the numerous shakeouts you suffered, I cannot recognise Manticore’s equity line in your personal trade history chart’s final half. Manticore in December 2020 was on all time high in BTC of 42000+% ROI , then its shorts were hunted, but nevertheless it recovered and reached all time high in USD on April 2021.
Amarok, our stop hunter, is on a different cycle than Manticore which is a scalper and was on ATH both BTC and USD this month.
Hydra is a pre-breakout accumulation/distribution algo which went crazy in January while Manticore was suffering the losing shorts and now retracing.
Disclaimer: the charts are BACKTEST which track 1 BTC set as starting bankroll for the bot at January 2019, they not represent actual BTC inside BotHIVE.
I don’t know if you manually aborted positions in loss that were later won, or switched between bots with wrong timing or had just enough extra stop to skew your risk reward but still get shakeout , but what I see in your trade history is not reflecting the official trade history of GENESIS with extra stop 0%, which I remind, is freely accessible by everyone here https://t.me/BotHIVE_io or here https://t.me/BotHive .
I will summarise all points you should have understood , and that are repeated and demonstrated constantly in our community:
1. Markets and Algos present on bothive move in loops of greed and fear. You can also call it Bulls & Bears, but doesn’t change the substance. That’s how ALL markets work, you don’t need to be a trader to know that BTC likes to do -60%/-80% periodically then goes into huge green rallies. That is done on purpose to shake weak hands in deep red and then force them to FOMO IN during the bull market , losing precious coins at every iteration.
SAME EXACT CONCEPT APPLIES FOR ALGOS.
You can argue that algorithms on bothive are not important as I tell, but imagine for a second they are and ask yourself:
Why should the algos that represent the market behave differently than the market itself ?
2. Markets are powered by a few dozen main algorithms that constantly take liquidity from dumb traders that don’t know them. They work as self fulfilling prophecies. Prediction and event are in a circular relationship, according to which the prediction generates the event and the event verifies the prediction. Until someone that knows the algo gets greedy and has big enough liquidity to manipulate them, they will never lose, that’s why the high win ratio.
3. Market loves to trigger liquidity injection from long term winners’ stops.
I read that someone complains about the original risk reward of the bots, which btw are :
Manticore = 0.207
Amarok = 0.262
Hydra = 1.093
Arakne had way to small risk reward for bitcoin, which compared to traditional stock markets has such a low liquidity that can be manipulated a lot easier. For this reason the algo has been delisted.
Is important to point out that we utilise AI and genetic algorithms that simulate the natural selection for optimising the bots. Means that the risk reward is not something in our control and is identified by AI itself. User can lower it with extra stop tho, to not lose on shakeouts, but that also means smaller wins every time.
Since the risk reward and consequently the genesis stops(0% extra stop) are identified by the AI, it means THAT GENESIS STOP is the most profitable long term. read it again. The stop that is hunted is the most profitable. That is the reason why you get shakeout by so little while who has extra stop wins the same trade most of time.
Because market knows that triggering your manticore’s short and then having the strength to push price at genesis stop, will 100% find a lot of liquidity from long term winners willing to buy-out at market positions in order to protect their capital and consequently filling manipulator’s exits). Just like a fisher-man is not interested in keeping small fishes but only the big ones, the same way a manipulator is only interested in shaking out algos with fat wallets because coming from huge win streaks killing dumb traders left and right.
4. As in nature, there’s no life without death . You want 100 % win ratio for each bot ? SORRY ! That would be the death of markets. THE DEATH!
Because a perfect Utopia in nature is not only impossible and not sustainable , but extremely dangerous. I would advise on reading about the American ethologist John Calhoun and his experiments with rats. He gave them paradise, and that killed every single colony at every take of the experiment. Nature doesn’t want that from us and markets follow nature’s laws.
For this reason , no matter how important an algorithm is, it will have to lose sometimes short term just to keep being profitable endlessly. Why ? Because otherwise we would run out of losers ! They would eventually go bankrupt or join winning side and stay there.
Instead what market did to survive by nature’s laws ? The exact same thing LIFE did on the planet: IT SPLIT INTO PIECES(the few dozen algos)
From 1 common ancestor we reached an exponential species diversification. Why ? Well, you get it, to survive death of individual and even species extinction which as we saw are MANDATORY and ultimately continue the path on which life always exists under some form! Same way market wants you to feel fear and quit algos or sell your btc at the end of a bear market which took 80% of your liquidity, so you can die and let others prosper.
5.Did you ever observed how these algos lose ? By manipulation that brings huge profit to manipulator and at the same time saves the algo from extinction. (Point 4).
But what is a manipulation ? It simply takes someone strong enough that knows the algo ( because he/they run it too!) and with big enough liquidity to challenge the self fulfilling prophecy and take a bite of the huge liquidity that accumulates during win streaks. If you challenge Amarok which has 98% win ratio, it means you ( manipulator) have 2% odds of winning the trade. With such a small chance of success, manipulator’s reward must be insanely high. What’s manipulator trade? Same entry as algo but stop at its exits with take profit at the algo’s stop. The exact opposite trade.
How many times have we seen algos miss the profitable exit by literally few dollars then go straight to genesis stop, trigger liquidity then eventually complete the original trade with the help of all stops that meanwhile accumulated at the wick that just missed the exit? Almost every time algo lost should be your honest answer. That’s the manipulation that fucks with your mind the most and is the most common, because you literally missed your profit taking then lost by little just to see trade complete without you. Frustration, fear, blood, all juicy for the market!
A second type of manipulation is when as soon bot triggers , market bounces in opposite direction, then the rest is the same as the most common manipulation.
Without the hand of manipulator, all trades would complete instantly ( how many times have we closed positions in seconds even ? )
6. You can fight manipulator and protect the prophecy by averaging your position. That is done by doubling down your position at fibonacci 0.618 between algos’ entry and genesis stop. I will not go in here why 0.618 is such an important value, but is the constant of the universe.
Since in every trade there are 2 sides, there are also two 0.618, one for the long projection and one for the short projection. So we are talking about 0.382 and 0.618. Lastly you have a final double down , which is where manipulator wants the algo to get stopped and fill his exits. If he wants you to buy out your position with force, maybe is better do the opposite if you have good enough extra stop because eventually price will test your average entry giving you opportunity to get out without loss and gain hedge on the algo that already lost.
Study your trade history and you can see that could have at least got out in even in the trades you lost, because market always retrace to the avg entry obtained by the double downs. Thats why triangles form! Here a few screenshots of different manipulation all following same patterns:
7.Just like you might advice newcomers of bitcoin to NOT buy all at once their coins, especially on top of massive rallies up, is simple statistical and mathematical advantage to apply dollar cost averaging. Same exact concept can be applied with algos. If you want to increase bankroll(or increase max risk or decrease extra stop), the right statistical moment is when algo took a loss and there’s fear. If you want to decrease bankroll(or decrease max risk or increase extra stop), the right statistical moment is during massive win streaks. Is not rocket science , yet the market and loop of fear and greed tempt weak minds into doing the opposite. Exiting when you see losses and increase capital during winning streaks when you feel “this algo will never lose”.
8. Another advice you might give to crypto newcomers is to diversificate among several coins. Same concept applies to algos and that’s why the very first sentence on bothive.io homepage is :
“Build Synthetic Asset Diversification while accumulating Bitcoin”
If we are right and there are a set number of algos that fight each other short term but long term they are all profitable on their own, than the most logic decision is to run them all at same time with balanced bankrolls. Did you see how when your manticore lost , Amarok the stop hunter made several wins ? Is not random. The only way to defeat the loop of fear and greed, is by running all algos. That way you will be part of a self fulfilling ecosystem in which maybe today 1 account loses but 2 wins. Tomorrow the opposite. And in 1 year, they are all in profit because you held during the fear and the greed, just the way you hold your BTC when it goes to shit periodically.
9. Algos equity line follow patterns and respect fibonacci. How cool is that ? Here a few examples that as everything, can be found with bigger details in our telegram:
Breakouts, supports, resistances, trend lines, triangles, fibonacci. All can be used to gain hedge on the algo, to understand what are good entry and exit points.
For example every time there’s a new ATH in USD after a loss, that acts as a breakouts and it means the bot will do a win streak.
On BotHIVE we all share the same destination, but everyone has a different journey because MONEY MANAGEMENT IS THE KEY of any investment.
None can set your MM because what works for me might not work for you.
Platform allows you to set your MAX RISK per position, and to have a different stop than genesis thanks to EXTRA STOP. You can set trailing stops , automatic market exits ecc.
Your bot, your journey.
Very soon also the automatic averaging of position while protecting the prophecy will also be released, a feature that if enabled allows your bot to double down at the magic 0.618s and drop the extra position at the new averaged entry. At every iteration, the risk reward on the trade improves.
10. Why use stops then if they get hunted ? Because of the bot cycles of bear and bull. At some point every bear market ends and a massive winning streak not only recovers the loss of the bear but creates new highs. Using stops and consequently leverage intensifies the compound and the power of the win streak. In the end is more profitable to lose sometime and use leverage than the opposite. Once again , market pushes for the loop of fear and greed so it can mess with weak minds. Does it sound familiar ?
Lastly some closure…
I only wrote this because I think is fair that in a debate all parties should be allowed to express their points of view.
I have also no doubt that this post of mine will be reported to mods and deleted for some stupid reason, just like happened in the past a lot of times.
Our dev team is busier than ever and we are working at amazing features coming up this year, so really no time to fight you ladies and gentlemen .
For the above reasons , I will no longer reply to this thread nor follow it up.
Good luck to all of you, and remember, you only lose when you give up, in life as in markets.
