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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today! on: January 22, 2018, 03:06:11 PM
Do you pay usd for any other crypto? 99% of the coins on coinmarketcap have no actual use and trade for much more than this. Essentially all cryptos are "play money" to an uninformed individual.

As far as im understood most projects have at least some plans for future use of their tokens so that there is value based on speculation of that. Or like Bitcoin, Litecoin ect. have potential use as storage of value (like gold for example) or usage as currency. CHP will have no potential future use outside of their own platform, so there is no reason for it to have any value.

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In order to buy in you have to buy CHP via ethereum. They are already valued at ~0.3USD based on the ethereum parity. In order to win a $1,000,000 prize that you claim you have to pay a buy-in that will most likely be $1,000 or more. Do you understand poker at all?

What do you mean, you yourself wrote that first tournament is 3000CHP buyin = 1000$ if CHP is valued ~0.3$. +1000,000$ prizes were estimated only by fact that there is added 16,000,000 CHP in opening tournament. Of course those tokens doesn't have any value until they hit exchanges. Then we only see how much value people give them.

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The token should also have a secondary use for speculation on exchanges. I doubt anyone will sell for less than what they bought in for, so what you're implying makes no sense.

The opening tournament series in february/march will be viral in the poker world, everyone will want a piece of that prize action. Since the buyin is 3000 CHP, it's already valued at $1,000 to buy in. The ones that missed out will want some CHP from somewhere and they will have to get it from an exchange.

If you're unaware, they just had a tournament for a Tesla added to the first place yesterday and the prize pool (from participants) was ~900k CHP. Yes, they had almost 300 people paying the same 3000 CHP buyin just yesterday, for the Tesla. That was ~257 ETH at current prices.

$250k thrown into a tournament into a beta site that barely anyone knows about is pretty good at this stage

---

Please look in the ecosystem at some of the other "successful" ICOs. In comparison to most of them, what is offered here is in a whole different league.

But like I said, feel free to skip it. The more CHP they burn at the end of the ICO the better for everyone that is actually interested in this.

Well if games in the site are starting to die I guess you have to sell lower what you bought unless you want to hold those worthless coins indefinitely. Tho getting even anything for those at that point is a bonus.

If they were constantly putting bonus prizes in tournaments in form of cars or ETH then there would be at least one reason for CHP to have at least some value. I doubt that will happen more often than maybe max couple of times, one Tesla isn't very much from 40,000,000$ worth of ETH they have already collected, they must have problems figuring out what they do with all that money.

Well you can probably guess that I am not participating, but I am very interested to see how this turns out.
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today! on: January 22, 2018, 12:56:01 PM
Just found this, checked the whitepaper and can't believe what I just read. Even more confusing is the fact people have invested tens of millions dollars to this. Plus that there is pages of conversation about the subject on multiple sites and almost everybody ignores pretty important fact:

The fact is that Coinpoker chips (CHP) are actually nothing else than play money poker chips! Yes you read correctly. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why those chips should have any value. They just have made new pokersite based on blockchain, printed 500,000,000 poker chips to play with and claim that those chips should have some value based on demand or something like that. Why would anybody pay anything for tokens that can only be used to play poker in their platform, no-one quarantees any value for chips and those cannot be used for anything else. They are just like any other play money except they have limited supply, that of course shouldn't give them any value, anybody can print any tokens they like everyday. E.g. if pokerstars limited their play money chips to 500,000,000 and opened exchange to buy/sell those, does that give them value? Well it would be exactly like this. Of course it seems that people for some mysterious reason are giving them value buy partipating in their ICO:s and buying those. Sadly for those who have invested, the prize of CHP:s should be zero soon after those chips open to exchange.

And if for some reason those chips held value some time after exchange opened and playing had begun there would be some problematic possibilities. Few examples:

1. What happens when winner(s) of opening tournaments want to cash out.. There are pretty big added value put in those tournaments + normal buyins so winners would get at least millions of those chips. Those big winners/runner ups etc. would likely to want cash out after tournament.. Well what happens when all winners go to exchange at the same time to try to sell those piles of chips (= even multiple % of total supply of coins) to get real money.. There most likely isn't even close enough volume in market to make those sell orders happen at current prize if at all. So you buy CHP:s at 0.3$ or something per unit before tournament and if u happen to win u cant sell those tokens anywhere close that prize.. Only thing you can try is to sell small portions at a time and hope that value of chip doesn't go down. This applies to any other big cashout as well.

2. Since there is 4% rake that eats available tokens at fast rate, Coinpoker has to sell those coins back to circulation in exchange which itself lowers coin prize if inflow/outflow otherwise is balanced.

3. If overall interest for any reason to play at Coinpoker decreases, coin starts to lose value because more selling than buying happens, which even more accelerates people leaving from site ---> value decreases.. ultimately this leads to coins having zero value. Of course even earlier when there is not enough growth potential left there would be massive sell offs at some point by ICO/crypto investors who wasn't interested in poker anyway ---> prize crashes down, people starts to leave ---> and so on..

There are numerous other problematic instances I could mention but there shouldn't be any reason to consider anything like that at all. The coin should have zero value to start with, there are multiple sites and platforms to play with printed tokens, there is no difference in comparison to this.

1) You must be new to crypto. By your logic everything has 0 value because people will cash out as soon as they gain something. That's been proven to be false repeatedly over the years.

2) The 4% rake is similar to other sites, and they give back part of it to players - in a transparent, blockchain verifiable manner (or so they claim). Right now there is no rake, since the site is in beta.

3) If you read the whitepaper, you'll also see that they have a verifiable RNG, and are working on a 'mental-poker' RNG, which should launch in April. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_poker
Also, the site should work in the US - where otherwise online poker is banned right now. Also it should work in China - where gambling is a big part of culture.

Since crypto is a gray area in most juristictions and not "real money", it should work around most laws that regulate gambling there.

Stay ignorant though, it's better for the rest of us if the ico doesn't fully sell out. Less supply means more value later on.


1. Well I assume that if some casual player wins supposedly +1,000,000$ in poker tournament many would like to cash out at least most of that winning but that is unfortunately very likely to be impossible to do.

2. 4% rake with 4$ dollar rake cap possibly even in small tables (very unclearly stated in whitepaper tho) = way worse than normal 5% rake with appropriate rake caps in small tables.

3. RNG and other technical solutions are also meaningless considering that we are playing with money that is equivalent to play money used in monopoly board game for example. That is the only meaningful point I am trying to make that essentially those tokens should be absolutely worthless. They are nothing more than tokens printed to specifically play poker in that platform. I can't understand why those would have any usd value outside of that platform since there is no other use whatsoever for those chips outside of that platform. Just like money used to play monopoly board game, I wouldn't pay usd for that money either.

I can't wait to see what happens when those chips open trading in exchange. I am expecting that even if for some reason people initially pay something for those and games start in the site, within a couple months or maximum few years site should be dead and tokens have zero value. Even if this succeeded at beginning at some point someone would launch similar type of blockchain based poker software with better terms for players (1% rake for example) and this would mean end to this. And when interest to this platform decreases there wouldn't be any reason why anybody would want to pay anything for those tokens anymore and people who will end up having chips in their account at that time will lose all their money.
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ICO] CoinPoker: Poker future is today! on: January 22, 2018, 01:12:23 AM
Just found this, checked the whitepaper and can't believe what I just read. Even more confusing is the fact people have invested tens of millions dollars to this. Plus that there is pages of conversation about the subject on multiple sites and almost everybody ignores pretty important fact:

The fact is that Coinpoker chips (CHP) are actually nothing else than play money poker chips! Yes you read correctly. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why those chips should have any value. They just have made new pokersite based on blockchain, printed 500,000,000 poker chips to play with and claim that those chips should have some value based on demand or something like that. Why would anybody pay anything for tokens that can only be used to play poker in their platform, no-one quarantees any value for chips and those cannot be used for anything else. They are just like any other play money except they have limited supply, that of course shouldn't give them any value, anybody can print any tokens they like everyday. E.g. if pokerstars limited their play money chips to 500,000,000 and opened exchange to buy/sell those, does that give them value? Well it would be exactly like this. Of course it seems that people for some mysterious reason are giving them value buy partipating in their ICO:s and buying those. Sadly for those who have invested, the prize of CHP:s should be zero soon after those chips open to exchange.

And if for some reason those chips held value some time after exchange opened and playing had begun there would be some problematic possibilities. Few examples:

1. What happens when winner(s) of opening tournaments want to cash out.. There are pretty big added value put in those tournaments + normal buyins so winners would get at least millions of those chips. Those big winners/runner ups etc. would likely to want cash out after tournament.. Well what happens when all winners go to exchange at the same time to try to sell those piles of chips (= even multiple % of total supply of coins) to get real money.. There most likely isn't even close enough volume in market to make those sell orders happen at current prize if at all. So you buy CHP:s at 0.3$ or something per unit before tournament and if u happen to win u cant sell those tokens anywhere close that prize.. Only thing you can try is to sell small portions at a time and hope that value of chip doesn't go down. This applies to any other big cashout as well.

2. Since there is 4% rake that eats available tokens at fast rate, Coinpoker has to sell those coins back to circulation in exchange which itself lowers coin prize if inflow/outflow otherwise is balanced.

3. If overall interest for any reason to play at Coinpoker decreases, coin starts to lose value because more selling than buying happens, which even more accelerates people leaving from site ---> value decreases.. ultimately this leads to coins having zero value. Of course even earlier when there is not enough growth potential left there would be massive sell offs at some point by ICO/crypto investors who wasn't interested in poker anyway ---> prize crashes down, people starts to leave ---> and so on..

There are numerous other problematic instances I could mention but there shouldn't be any reason to consider anything like that at all. The coin should have zero value to start with, there are multiple sites and platforms to play with printed tokens, there is no difference in comparison to this.
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