Hi Damnsammit,

Very interesting design! I like it.  I just had a little suggestion for you.  If you make one with a box fan mount also make a space to mount a furnace filter between the fan and the video cards.  Then you can just slide in furnace filters to keep the dust down!  There are lots of different size filters so you should be able to find one that fits nicely.  Then your miners will double as air filters.  I'll keep an eye out on this I may be interested in buying 2-4 of them when you get it all figured out.  My normal cases with cards hanging out all over the place are a bit of a problem... lol  I currently have a normal case laying on it's side open with a strip of cork flooring laying across it that the video cards rest on and a tower air-filter laying on it's side blowing air across the cards.  It works...  but is really a pain if I need to move anything.  The other case has a card hanging from the side opening with zip ties.   the risers I bought from you are working great though!


Korxax,


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

"In case of problems my cell phone plays a loud air raid siren. It wakes the entire neighborhood. "

Do they all come running to help you get us back online?  


Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

If you take the time to look at why Terrahasher's trust is low it's because he mistakenly called another site a scam and it turned out they were legit and fairly well known to others on the site who rallied to their defense and bashed Terrahasher.  He did apologize to the site he mistakenly called a scam and retracted his accusation, but the damage was done to his rep already and the people that gave him negative trust didn't retract.  I chatted with him a little shortly after this thread was launched and he seemed like a good guy that was just trying to help everyone out, but made a mistake on one scam accusation.

A tip for everyone is always take the time to do some searches on any company before you send any money.  I found bitcominers and was about to place an order, but did a search first and found this thread and a few others that warned me off.  I know it's tempting when you see a good price for an item that is never in stock to jump on it quickly before it sells out.  But that is exactly what they are counting on.  There are real losses and opportunity losses.  You are far better off risking an opportunity loss while you do some research than taking a real loss and sending money to a scammer.  If it looks too good to be true, it probably is, and tread very lightly.

I wish you all the best of luck in getting at least some of your money back, but I hate to tell you even if you do it will likely be years.  Any money is now "evidence" and you likely won't see it back until any legal proceedings against the "company" are finished.  Even then it will likely be a fraction of what you put in.  Occasionally people get all their money back, but it is rare.  I suggest you contact the bank listed previously, your country's law enforcement agency for this type of crime, the appropriate UK police agency, and the FBI in the US since they claim that's where they are located.

Sorry for your losses and best of luck in the future.

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

The 7990 would be the best card to get until they come out with a dual chip R9 290x...  But I haven't seen any anywhere but eBay and a few small e-tailers and at insane prices every time I looked.  The Ali Baba link looks sketchy at best.  Only non-reversible payments and no feedback or Ali Baba site inspection.  Have you tried contacting them to get a price? 

I contacted one of them with this message:
"Hi,


I'm interested in buying several Radeon 7990 video cards and am in contact with many other people that would be interested in buying several more each.  I don't have a full count on quantity yet but would be surprised if it's less than 30 if the price is right and would be very interested in getting your price quotes and brands you are offering.  If you have different price points for different quantities please give me a list and we'll try to get as many orders as possible.  Also interested in what kind of payment terms you will accept.  Many of the people involved have been scammed out of money buying items that never shipped so we are an understandably nervous bunch and would need some way of secure payment, possibly an escrow service or American Express card payment to assure that we are not sending our hard earned money out without the guarantee that we will get what we ordered.  "

We'll see what happens.


Korxax


BTC-1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe
LTC-LaJ7FrobQwmxLwYAgGy3pU86hBfaoXqKZh

I'm pretty new to mining, but I have a few R9 290s that seem to be good bang for the buck miners if you can get them at a reasonable price.  The 290x is a bit faster thought so if we can get those it would give us the biggest bang per PCI slot.  The way to figure it is figure how much hashing power you expect per dollar on the card with a slight weighting toward the higher power cards because you can only get so many in each PC.  So with lower power cards you cost per killahash goes up due to the need for more PCs and thus more electricity to run them.  My head hurts too much to do the math at the moment, but it's really all about the price of the card.  Whatever card gives the most bang for the buck is the one I'm sure we could all agree on.

I'm currently running 3 290xs, 2 290s I got on deals, a 7970 I got on a deal, and my 3 old 6970s and a5870. I'll have to add another mining PC if I add many more cards, ?I already have to run a heavy duty power cord to the bedroom I keep my miners in because I blow the breaker if I don't. The Sapphire Tri-X 290Xs are outstanding because they have an excellent cooler on them that is fairly quiet. (It stays about 20 degrees cooler than my other 290x without much noise at all)  They are great if you mine on your main working PC since you can stand to be in the same room with them.  They also overclock well, but I've found that you don't always get more hashing by raising the clock, sometimes you get less, seems you have to find the right combo of GPU clock and Memory clock, but I'm still experimenting there.  I just got the cards earlier this week. They are very long though and won't fit in older cases, but since most of us will have to run on risers to get any air to them that isn't a huge deal.  The reference design coolers on the 290s suck.  The temps are always near 95c and they sound like a hair dryer.  Happily I have those in my basement that I hardly ever go down to.   

I've read that the 280xs are good bang for the buck miners too, but I don't have one of those yet.

Korxax


BTC-1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe
LTC-LaJ7FrobQwmxLwYAgGy3pU86hBfaoXqKZh

The 5 I ordered just showed up!  Thanks a lot!  Nice quick shipping!


Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I'll take 5.

I'll pm you in a sec.

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Heh, we are actually doing better since the difficulty went UP. 


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

huh, I was talking about how give-me-coins.com had everyone mining litecoins accounts cleaned out of all their mined coins that had not been sent to their wallets yet.  Apparently all the coins were sent to one individual that hacked the site last evening.  This morning all the accounts are being credited back with all the lost coins.  I don't know any other details really.  I just assumed that's what you were talking about.  I had just started mining litecoins there a few days ago.  I'm still pretty new to mining, I started mining bitcoins few months ago.  So I really don't know what's going on, but somehow they are manually giving everyone their coins back that were lost.  I sure hope they got the money back from the bastard that took them and didn't have to come up with it out of their own pockets.

I just did a search on "give-me-coins hack" after I found out about it and your thread showed up so I thought that's what you were talking about.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

All right, I'll take your word for it.  Like I said I'm not a programmer and my wife hasn't ever used PHP, she's just seen many security issues with it.  She's very aware of sloppy code being a security issue, she has to clean up and secure other people's code all the time.  She mostly works in .Net and SQL though.  Occasionally she still gets someone using classic ASP too.

I looked when I got a chance this morning and I see that I was credited back the partial coin I had mined, so I started mining with you again.  I sure hope you didn't have to refund everyone out of your own pocket, that would suck.  But if you did, I'm sure everyone really appreciates it and it should go far to re-establish trust.

 I hope you were able to figure out who the bastard was that hacked the site and send the police his way.  I don't know how much he got away with, but if he got enough it would be grand theft along with all the computer crime laws that were violated.  I don't know where you are, but if you are in the US I think it would be the FBI that you contact.  Whether they would really do anything about it is another matter though...

I wish you the best of luck getting the issues patched.

Now if I could just get my 2 computers with nVidia cards to connect and mine...

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Yeah... I just got cleaned out of everything I'd mined there.   Happily I had just started mining litecoins there a few days ago, so it wasn't much.  I'm not a programmer, but my wife is and she's always told me that PHP has some serious security issues.  I don't really know much about it, but my understanding is it's almost impossible to block all the ways to hack PHP.  She really has never learned PHP for this reason.  She is usually dealing with sites that need high security.  It may be faster and easier to program with... but there is a price.


Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Hi Philipma,

Yeah I had already bought my miners before I knew you were selling them or I would have bought from you. 

For those of you that didn't read a few pages back Philipma helped me out figuring out how to get them set up by pointing me in the right direction to learn what I needed to learn.  If I decide to get some more I'll let you know. I didn't even know you were selling them at the time.

I gotta tell you though, bfgminer has made serious improvements since then.  I just switched to bfgminer today and it is much better than cgminer now.  I'm averaging nearly 2ghps faster across my 6 miners overclocked to 2ghps, at least if I'm reading this right, with no hardware errors.  It's easier to set up too.  You don't have to do the driver modification, just use the standard driver and you can plug them all in at once. With cgminer 5 of 6 sticks were showing over 1000 hardware errors over 4 days of running.  So far about 5 hours with no errors. And averaging just over 12ghps instead of the 10-11ghps I was averaging before.  The speed barely fluctuates instead of being all over the place with cgminer.  I highly recommend switching to bfgminer if you are using ants.  It supposedly works better for mixing ants with all the other USB miners too, but I can't attest to that since I only have the ants.

Happy mining,

Korxax,



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I finally got a chance to switch to bfgminer from cgminer...  and um... yeah... much better!  Thanks for the help!

And yeah, the headaches are absolute torture that no one that doesn't get them can possibly understand.  I've talked to women that have gone through natural childbirth that say their cluster headaches are much worse.  Happily I have  great family and a truly exceptional wife.  There are plenty of times I would like to end it all, but at those times I usually don't have the energy to follow through with it, and I don't want to do that to my family, or frankly my dog.  The family would understand, the dog wouldn't and she takes very good care of me.  She even occasionally warns me when one is about to hit me.  Sadly my dog is getting old, 13 and a half now and last summer she got very sick, we thought we were going to lose her.  $10,000+ later (and of course my wife lost her job shortly after that and it took 5 months to find a new one, but she's worth every penny, we'll get it paid off eventually) she seems to be doing very well health wise, however last week she lost her second eye so she is totally blind now.  We don't know if the illness had anything to do with it or not, but her she developed really extreme glaucoma in one eye last fall causing her a lot of pain.  She blew some blood vessels in the eye and couldn't really see out of it anymore so we decided to just remove it to stop the pain.  3 weeks later she detached the retina of her other eye so she was pretty much blind from then on.  2 weeks ago she developed the same extreme glaucoma in the other eye, very swollen and painful so since she couldn't really see anymore anyway we decided to take the other eye a week ago Friday.  She definitely seems to be feeling better now though! she just gets lost sometimes so I get to be her seeing eye person.  So yeah, I get pretty down sometimes, but I try to enjoy the times I'm feeling good.  Life goes on, just make the best of the good times.  the headaches have slowed down a lot, I'm only getting one every few weeks now, though I still have a constant sort of mild migraine it's still much better than it has been.  And I'm hopeful I will get another complete remission for a few years.  That happens from time to time too.  I've had them since I was 8, and the longest remission I've had was around 5 years.  So hopefully I have one of those on the way soon after 12 years of not having one.    That would be nice!

Sorry if I'm oversharing... sometimes it helps to just dump it out on complete strangers.  I hate to dump it on my family or my wife since they already have to put up with me.

Anyway, love the ants and bfgminer looks to be far superior to cgminer at this stage.  So far my average speed looks like it is 2ghps faster across 6 ants overclocked at 2Ghps, so like getting one of them free in comparison to cgminer.  and no hardware errors yet.  In cgminer over 4 days of continuous running only 1 of the ants had less than 1000 errors.

I'm going to go pet my dog now  

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I like the antminers I have, but they won't work with the bitminter client yet.  I found them at Amazon through Jones gear for about $65 each shipped free if you don't mind waiting.  You might be able to find similar pricing on ebay, or check to see if anyone is selling them cheaper in the forum here, but most of those guys only take bitcoin as payment.  If bitcoin prices go up you should get your money back, but realistically, you'd probably be better off just buying the bitcoin rather than mining.  With some luck though you could buy the miners get a some partial coins in 2-3 months and maybe sell the miner at that point for close to what you paid for it and pocket a little bitcoin too.  No way to know what the ants will be selling for then though, so you may lose money overall.  There's a real problem with bitcoin mining at the moment, the cost of the hardware is so high and difficulty is increasing so fast it'll be hard to make your money back.  It's hard to blame the manufactures really, though plenty of people still do, there seem to be plenty of people willing to pay for the miners at prices where they won't get their money back, so why discount them.  That and the manufacturers could just plug their own products in and make the money themselves without selling at all, so they price them where it's worth it to sell them rather than mine themselves.

it is still kinda fun though.     And if the price of bitcoin continues to go up you'll still do just fine.

Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Sure, Bees and ants do it fine... but we aren't talking about bees or ants, or aliens.  Socialism will NEVER work with humans.  Guess what?  We are humans.  For humans Free Market Capitalism works, and is by far the most efficient system ever devised by man, but it requires that people are allowed to be free.  Some people can't stand that others may make what they perceive as mistakes and want to force people to do it their way.  I don't think they have the right to tell me how to live my life, so long as I don't interfere with anyone else's living their life the way they want to.  I don't care what could work for some alien race, I care about what happens to humans. 

Theories are fine and have their place, it's when people try to put them into action, when they will never work with real people involved that I have a problem.  People aren't bees or ants and would be miserable if forced to live like them.  Which is what happens if socialism is enforced on humans.  And I do mean enforced.   It can't be done with people being free.  Maybe you want to be told what to do, where to live, how many kids you can have, what to eat, etc. but the majority of humans don't want that.  Personally I can't understand why anyone would want that, but if some people do they are free to form their own groups to do that if they want to, but they shouldn't force it on people, and if they create their little commune people should be free to leave if they decide it isn't for them.  Freedom and socialism are mutually exclusive, they can't exist together.  You might be able to have the illusion of freedom for a while, but it is only an illusion.  I would prefer real freedom, but even in America we don't have that anymore.  While America is still one of the freest places on earth, it's no where near what it used to be because the government has continued to take power they were never intended to have under our system.  And unfortunately, the people keep letting them because they are promised so many goodies in exchange for losing just a little freedom.  But all those little freedom losses add up over time.  It's like the old story of cooking a frog by slowly turning up the temperature on the pot of water until finally it's too late for the frog to escape. 

I don't know where you live, or what your experience is.  But I do know it is very difficult to fully understand something that is foreign to your experience.  People are taught the wonders of socialism mostly by the socialists in power, trying to maintain their power.  It is a form of indoctrination, or brain washing.  If you are taught something over and over, especially from a young age it becomes very difficult to think outside of that box.  Our language defines our thinking.  If you don't have a word for something it's very difficult to think about it and understand it.  The socialists in power know this and that's why they love public education.  It gives them the power over all those young minds to mold them into the next generation of socialists.  another great read is George Orwell's 1984.  He got the date wrong, but he was right and that's where we are heading.  Look at political correctness for example, they are making many words unacceptable and changing the definition of others.  In 1984 they banned the word freedom so people couldn't even communicate the thought.  Today we are just changing the definition.  We aren't there yet, but that's the general direction of things, unless we wake up and change directions. 

For capitalism you have to believe in the power of individuals, not collectives.  Individual people making decisions to improve their own lives (you may call it greed, I call it enlightened self interest) makes the most efficient system.  Sure some will make mistakes, but humans learn from their mistakes, thus improving the system over time.  It allows for ultra fast reactions to new technology, unlike slow ponderous governments that have to change mountains of laws to accommodate new technology.  Frequently trying to limit them so they can protect their own interests in older systems, like using tax money to subsidize buggy whip manufactures because the new auto industry is hurting their business model.  This kind of garbage happens in government all the time, that's the crony capitalism I was talking about.  It's hugely wasteful. 

Capitalism is like evolution, survival of the fittest.  If you run your business poorly or a new competitor comes along you must adapt to survive, making you better in the process.  If you don't adapt, your business will fail and go extinct.  But if that happens you still have the opportunity to come back if you can come up with a better way to do things.  But in the end the customers all win because you keep getting better products at lower prices.  Yes, old business that fail to improve will fail, and really, that's a good thing.  And even for the people that were involved with the failed business, there is always another opportunity just around the corner.  That's why it works best for everyone, with the exception of the power freaks that want to control your life.  They hate it because they don't have control of everyone.  But everyone controls their own life.  The only ones that lose in capitalism are the ones that want others to pay for their lives.  They will have to work for a living.  Then there are people like me that are unable to work a normal job due to some medical issue.  But many of them can still find some niche that they can make a living at.  I continue to try to find things I can do.  sometimes I'm more successful than others, and there are times when I'm so incapacitated I can't really do much of anything.  But I have a wife that is very good at what she does and makes enough for both of us to survive on, and occasionally thrive on.  Our income goes up and down, we save in the good years and scrimp in the down years and we get by just fine.  Things aren't great for us at the moment.  My headaches have been bad for going on 12 years now without a remission, sometimes they are worse than others and things seem to be tapering off so I hope I'll be able to do more soon.  The economy has been pretty bad and my wife was without a job for 5 months last year so that wiped out all of our savings and put us in debt again, but she has a new contract job that hopefully will go permanent soon so hopefully we'll be able to pull out of it again. Overall we do better than many people, and much better than people that seem to be happy depending on the government to take care of them. 

Government is a monopoly.  They don't have to be good at what they do, they can, and do, waste money by the truckload.  They don't have to have good customer service because they are the only game in town.  They don't have a competitor to force them to do better.  You don't have a choice to take your business elsewhere to get better treatment. This is why the Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. close their borders and will not allow citizens to leave the country.  One of the brilliant things about the way the US was set up was that the individual states were set up as competitors too, just like businesses had competitors.  If a state mismanages it's people and over taxes, the people can pick up and move to anther state that is doing better.  This is why so many people and businesses are moving out of California and New York and moving to places like Texas and Florida.  The big problem is that the Federal Government has taken far more power than was ever intended.  The federal government was never meant to be much more than a defensive alliance between the states.  There was more to it than that of course, but it was never meant to have much power.  But governments always crave more power, and over time, they get it.

This is also the big draw of bitcoin!  Whether you realize it or not, a big part of what you love about bitcoin is the freedom it represents.

I'm starting to think maybe I should write a book... The problem is the people that need to read it wouldn't.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

And you misunderstand that the system causes those people to become the rulers.  It attracts that kind of people.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Socialism will always have this problem.  It also breeds laziness.  Far too many people are happy to coast through life expecting others to do the work to support them.  This always brings down the whole system. That is the true story of the first American Thanksgiving.  The mayflower compact was a socialist agreement that everyone would share their harvest and the central governors would give out the food to the people based on their need.  The first 2 years of this more than half the colony starved to death because everyone figured their neighbor would grow enough food that they wouldn't have to work hard at it since they would just eat their neighbors crops.  The problem was, when most of them thought this way, there wasn't enough food to go around.  After 2 years of this William Bradford tore up the mayflower compact and everyone got their own piece of land and were told everything they harvest was theirs to eat or trade.  Their harvest that year was abundant and they had so much food they invited the Indians for a feast  (I know, not what you were taught in school, but that's part of my point).   Capitalism takes advantage of human nature, call it greed if you want, but people will work hard for their, and their families, own good.  When people have a large percentage of their labors taken and given to people that are coasting, it saps their motivation to work hard too. 

Socialism has always failed, and always will fail.  It's inevitable.  Eventually you run out of other peoples money.  The only place socialism could ever work is in heaven... and I'm and atheist so I guess you know where I stand on that one too.  (In fact the religious teachings about it I believe is why it keeps being tried.  Even the conservative religious people, Judeo-Christian's at least, that are generally for free market capitalism sympathize with socialism because that's the way the believe things will work in heaven)  As soon as you put real people in the system it will always fail.  I understand why academics look at it and think how wonderful it could be, and in theory, sure, it sounds nice.  But real people don't work that way.  People aren't machines that can be programmed to behave in a certain way.  The only way to enforce people to work in that system is through tyranny (or universally loving your neighbor, which isn't going to happen on this earth).  It has happened every single time it's been tried.  And will continue to fail and cause the death, torture and general misery of millions of people along the way.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Show me a place where it socialism is the norm and tell me it hasn't happened, and I'll point right back at it and show you how it is happening, it just hasn't collapsed yet, but it's on the way.  It takes time, but it always happens, unless by some miracle people realize what is happening and reverse course before it's too late.  Look at the massive debt of all the socialist countries, that's how it starts.  And don't tell me "Yeah, well America is capitalist and they are in debt too."  It's the socialist policies of the US that have put the US in debt.  Cut those socialist policies out of the government and we have a maybe 20% tax rate and still have more money than we know what to do with along with a booming economy and extremely low un-employment.  The problem in America doesn't have true capitalism anymore, it's crony-capitalism and socialism.  There hasn't been true capitalism in the US for nearly 100 years, maybe even longer than that. America is still prosperous because of the capitalist underpinnings of the constitution.  It was powerful enough to make us a superpower in an amazingly short time, and we are still coasting on the massive power capitalism gave the country, but the steam is running out unless we change course and go back to it.   Everyone looks at the failures of the US and blames it on the capitalism, but it's the crony-capitalism that people confuse with true capitalism.  They aren't the same thing by a long shot.  the Federal government of the US was never meant to be much more

What everyone needs is equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.  Equality of opportunity requires a small government that doesn't have the power to pick winners and losers. 
As soon as government has that kind of power corruption enters the system.  It's human nature, it's un-avoidable.  If you want to get  a picture of what ultimately happens when we demand our government give us equality of outcome read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut.  It's a short story, only a few pages, so no reason not to do it. 

There will always be pockets of poverty in capitalism, that's what people point at and try to tear it down with.  But for the most part that poverty doesn't last, people move in and out of poverty all the time in capitalism.  It isn't a permanent condition.  And even the poverty in capitalism is far superior to the poverty in any other form of government.  In Free market capitalism, as long as people are willing to work hard, they will have a chance to get ahead.  In communist countries it's nearly impossible to get ahead.  If you were born the son of a ditch digger, you will grow up to be a ditch digger.  And communism is just the next step past socialism.  You can already hear the cries for it in western socialist countries.  "The only way to solve the debt problem is to take all the money from the rich and re-distribute it to the people."  It was a similar cry that created the Soviet Union.

What people don't seem to understand about the rich, at least first generation rich, not the ones that inherited a fortune, is that without them, most of us would be poor.  They invented something, or some process that made other people's lives better.  Their products actually created money that didn't exist before they started their business.  There isn't a set amount of money in the world that is just divided up un-equally.  Without their ideas and inventions there would actually be less money in the world.  People get the idea that they are takeing and hoarding all the money, but much of the money they have wouldn't even exist without them.  As to the money you spend on their products... if you think the price is too high, don't buy it.  No one is forcing you to.  If you think their product will give you some value to your life and that the price they are asking is worth the benefit you receive, who cares if they get rich on it?  You got something you wanted out of the deal too.   If other people are willing to pay more than you for a product, why should they sell it to you at a lower price?  What makes you so special?

Look, I understand  being envious of people that have more than you do.  I've been poor, hell I'm really not in that great of shape now.  I can't work a normal job because I get Cluster Headaches.  (Imagine a day long migraine packed into 30-120 minutes and repeat up to 10 times a day. clusterheadaches.com for more info if you are curious)  I'd love to have some of the expensive fancy toys the rich have, hell I'd just like to have a normal life without pain.  But don't get so jealous that you can't see that buying those expensive toys is how the rich can put their money to work for everyone else.  When they buy those toys, it gives the people that make them jobs so that they can feed their families and buy smaller toys of their own.  One of the worst things that happens when there is an economic crisis like there was at the end of 2008 (caused because the government forced banks to make loans to people that couldn't afford them, not because of greedy capitalists as you've been told) is that people resent the rich for spending money and so the rich try to remain inconspicuous about their spending.  This only exacerbates the problem, we need them spending, especially when the rest of us aren't due to financial hardships.  That's what gets the economy back on track.  But instead people start demanding higher taxes on the rich, which only makes them spend even less. 

Try to look at the whole economy not as one economy but as 2 distinctively different economies.  One is the private sector economy, the other is the public sector economy, government spending.  Remember, everything the government spends must first be taken out of the public sector economy in the form of taxes.  So government spending does NOT help the overall economy.  It can't, because before the government can spend money it mush first take it from the economy in one way or another.  Taxing it, borrowing it from future taxes, or printing it, which devalues the money with inflation.  So government spending to "help the economy" is like having a blanket that isn't long enough, so you cut some off of the bottom and sew it on the top.  In the short term your chest will feel warmer... but before long your feet get cold.  Not to mention a lot of the length of the blanket actually gets shorter because of the waste introduced by the overlap where you sewed it back together.  Now on the other hand... if the government were to cut taxes, that leaves more money in the hands of the people and businesses to invest in their companies and their lives.  More individuals with more money to spend quickly turns into more sales for businesses, who in turn hire more people to make the more products and services demanded by the public, which means even more people have jobs, and therefore money to spend on even more products, and before long the economy is booming again.  that increase in the economy then leads to more tax revenue because taxes are collected only when money changes hands.  With a lower tax rate, money changes hands more often and the treasury actually receives more dollars.

The real irony of socialism, is that in order to pay for all the social programs that socialists want to create what they need to do is keep taxes low.  But in practice they want control more, so they tax more and bankrupt the country.

Sorry didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I just get frustrated by how mis-understood Free Market Capitalism is. I kinda thought the bitcoin crowd would get it.  But it is to be expected when it is government doing the education.  They of course want to protect themselves with their version of the story.  The real beauty of bitcoin is that there is no government involvement.  No federal reserve printing money to cause inflation so they can inflate away the country's debt, etc.  It is pure Free Market Capitalism, and that's why it will succeed as long as governments don't figure out a way to destroy it, and I fully expect them to try.  My biggest worry is that governments will buy up enough computing power to gain control and destroy bitcoin with our own tax dollars.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Now if we can just get more fast blocks!  I increased my mining power by more than 6 times just in time for this string of long blocks...  I really need to get some red underwear.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Back up, thanks!


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

Same here.  All miners disconnected.


Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

I'd be interested.  Like everybody else though, will depend on the card and the price.



Korxax

1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe