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1  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 29, 2018, 12:43:42 PM
Licensed by whom? A government authority that inspects an RNG once a year? No thanks, I'll stick to provably fair sites where I can verify for myself if they are cheating.

Regarding that, I must point out that if you are not careful enough, you can still be cheated:

First of all, I didn't directly accuse that FreeBitco is manipulating the Rolls because I wouldn't be taken seriously if I did so.
It's better to provide all the information necessary so you can check it by yourselves and even maybe convince FreeBitco to improve their system.


I will explain this in two stages:
First the current (and exploitable) implementation:

1) You Login into FreeBitco and click on the "THIS GAME IS PROVABLY FAIR!"
2) In this screen, the Server *promises* that it will calculate the next roll using your Client Seed + next Nonce + Server Seed. (Server sends you the Hash of that seed so you can check it later, that's perfectly implemented).
3) You save the server seed hash and you hit Roll.
4) The server does all the math. Using the Client Seed, the Nonce, and the secret Server Seed.
5) Then here is where the server MAY say: Oh wait.. I do not like this roll. Let's use the Client Seed, the Nonce, but let's break the promise of which Seed we were going to use.
6) You verify your bet using the bet History (which was saved by the Server). The math here rounds up perfectly and the game seems provably-fair.

There are two problems for you with this implementation regarding how can you verify that you were cheated:
1) You will need to do this for probably thousands of rolls until the server attempts to cheat on you.
2) Once you eventually find a discrepancy, you will be left proof-less and alone. The server promised you it was going to use Hash111 but ended up using Hash222, in the History it stored Hash222 for you to verify/share the bet result.


Now, here is the basic idea on how it should be implemented:

1) Server generates a new secret Seed. Sets the Nonce to 0. And returns you the SHA256 of that Seed.
2) When you roll, you provide your own Client seed to the server.
3) The server calculates the roll using it's secret seed + nonce + client seed.
4) Server increases the Nonce by one. And keeps the same server seed for the next roll.
5) If I want to verify my bets (and only if I ask for it). The server reveals it's secret seed to me and re-executes step 1 for future rolls.
6) The server should add an entry to the history saying that I manually requested the server to reveal the seed.

This way, the server should be able to calculate all rolls without changing the promised seed unless you ask for the seed. Also, you don't need to save each server seed hash and compare it with the one used in the rolls history.
(It can still cheat you into saying you asked for the Seed for verifying before you actually rolled and thus generating a losing seed)
But at least this way it will be way more visible for you to see if your are being cheated, because you will see that the server changed the seed without you asking to reveal the seed.

It's not perfect. But this way it will be extremely hard for them to conceal the cheating.
To compensate the problem of this proposed approach, an option is that the server provides and resets the server Seed and Nonce every week. This way the server cannot cheat the History by saying that you requested the seed for verifying when you didn't.
You will only be able to verify your bets every week, but it can be optional with a setup with a cooldown.


Sorry for the delayed response. I'll do my best to answer all the details.


Then, regarding solosss madness. I do not agree with how he is expressing himself, but I do consider the possibility of the site taking extreme measures to stop bots. Most of the time this measures comes with high collateral damage (as we are seeing for the last 10-20 posts).

IMHO, I prefer to be part of collateral damage from a hammer-ban (and ask for support to restore such account) than the site manipulating rolls or cheating for the sake of stopping bots by cutting profits to everyone (bots and humans).

Every faucet would be at least 10 times bigger than it is today if there weren't  bots out there.

2  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 26, 2018, 12:37:12 AM
For some reason, just couple of minutes ago, my IP address has been banned and I'm getting this: "Sorry, this IP address has been blocked. If you are using a proxy, VPN or anonymization service, please turn it off before claiming free bitcoins." Also, tried to switch to my carrier's internet (dynamic IP), which I use when I'm outside home, and it's banned as well. What's going on ? I don't use neither a proxy, nor VPN/anonymization service. Where can I report this ? Also, because of this, I have lost my bonuses. Angry

If you get the "Sorry, this IP address has been blocked." message it means you have triggered our abuse detections systems. They think that the way you use the faucet indicates you may be either using a bot or multi-accounting so either your account and/or IP has been blocked.



this again show their greed, do not know how to protect yourself from bots)) captcha has been changed yet again all blocked)) funny to watch you

Not as funny as you turning up here when you get your bots banned.

this time I do not have oversteps, all my bots are working, blocking them is not touched)) continue to milk the cow


Just a curious question. Anything to add regarding server seeds?
3  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 26, 2018, 12:22:41 AM
И зачем было писать в офф. ветке такое? Крутишь , так не пались хоть. Заработал несчастных 3-ри копейки -  радуйся . Возомнил из себя тру хакера, ты еще больше злишь админов своими смс.

Can someone translate this correctly?

translate.google.com gives me this crap:
And why write in off. A branch is? You twist, so do not fall though. Has earned unfortunate 3-ri kopecks - be pleased. The trick of a hacker is out of your mind, you make the administrators even more angry at your SMS.
4  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 22, 2018, 12:15:08 PM
You have a right to raise your concerns, if you spot something that might cause problems in the future. One thing about Wetsuit is this, if there are concerns raised, he or she will address those concerns. Wetsuit will either explain it in detail or he will improve the system.

I've just heard from wetsuit and I've asked him to have a look at this. My personal view and understanding is that sort of manipulation wouldn't work because there's a nonce on the client side. The argument that the server seed could be changed is negated by the fact you could easily implement a script that checked that before and after each roll. I'm sure there are enough sceptics out that have tried to catch sites out and have failed because they don't actually cheat. It really wouldn't be worth it, the site's reputation is worth far more than any individual bet.


Thanks for communicating this to Wetsuit.

If you look at the steps mentioned carefully. You can see that no matter what the client sends, the server can break the promise of which hash to use and the only way to catch is as you mentioned, or bots. I'm still not making any accusations. I just want to point it out that this can be as real as it gets and is currently extremely hard to verify this by any normal person.

I know FreeBitco has a huge reputation, but it also has a huge userbase, everyone is claiming 'free money' by the hour. If you take out most of the last 3 free-game prizes, statistically the server will end up paying ~7.34 times less. I'm just pointing out there is an incentive to cheat and the system allows it to make it easier to hide.
5  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 21, 2018, 05:10:30 PM
First of all, I didn't directly accuse that FreeBitco is manipulating the Rolls because I wouldn't be taken seriously if I did so.
It's better to provide all the information necessary so you can check it by yourselves and even maybe convince FreeBitco to improve their system.


I will explain this in two stages:
First the current (and exploitable) implementation:

1) You Login into FreeBitco and click on the "THIS GAME IS PROVABLY FAIR!"
2) In this screen, the Server *promises* that it will calculate the next roll using your Client Seed + next Nonce + Server Seed. (Server sends you the Hash of that seed so you can check it later, that's perfectly implemented).
3) You save the server seed hash and you hit Roll.
4) The server does all the math. Using the Client Seed, the Nonce, and the secret Server Seed.
5) Then here is where the server MAY say: Oh wait.. I do not like this roll. Let's use the Client Seed, the Nonce, but let's break the promise of which Seed we were going to use.
6) You verify your bet using the bet History (which was saved by the Server). The math here rounds up perfectly and the game seems provably-fair.

There are two problems for you with this implementation regarding how can you verify that you were cheated:
1) You will need to do this for probably thousands of rolls until the server attempts to cheat on you.
2) Once you eventually find a discrepancy, you will be left proof-less and alone. The server promised you it was going to use Hash111 but ended up using Hash222, in the History it stored Hash222 for you to verify/share the bet result.


Now, here is the basic idea on how it should be implemented:

1) Server generates a new secret Seed. Sets the Nonce to 0. And returns you the SHA256 of that Seed.
2) When you roll, you provide your own Client seed to the server.
3) The server calculates the roll using it's secret seed + nonce + client seed.
4) Server increases the Nonce by one. And keeps the same server seed for the next roll.
5) If I want to verify my bets (and only if I ask for it). The server reveals it's secret seed to me and re-executes step 1 for future rolls.
6) The server should add an entry to the history saying that I manually requested the server to reveal the seed.

This way, the server should be able to calculate all rolls without changing the promised seed unless you ask for the seed. Also, you don't need to save each server seed hash and compare it with the one used in the rolls history.
(It can still cheat you into saying you asked for the Seed for verifying before you actually rolled and thus generating a losing seed)
But at least this way it will be way more visible for you to see if your are being cheated, because you will see that the server changed the seed without you asking to reveal the seed.

It's not perfect. But this way it will be extremely hard for them to conceal the cheating.
To compensate the problem of this proposed approach, an option is that the server provides and resets the server Seed and Nonce every week. This way the server cannot cheat the History by saying that you requested the seed for verifying when you didn't.
You will only be able to verify your bets every week, but it can be optional with a setup with a cooldown.


Sorry for the delayed response. I'll do my best to answer all the details.
6  Economy / Gambling / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: May 20, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
(I created a new account just to keep anonymous on this subject)

How are you guys checking the provably-fair rolls? Because if you are using the Server Seed that the site offers in their History. Then you are doing it wrong.

You need to save the Server Seed Hash that it's going to be used by the server. Copy+Paste on a txt this server seed hash. Then and only then, you can roll. The first thing you need to do when verifying a roll is that the server actually used a seed which has the same hash that you saved.
(Do this on the Free-Game, not the Multiply-BTC)

The math is pristine, yes. But if the server changes the seed that said it was going to use for your next roll, then the whole system falls apart.
Also, the server only needs to do this for the higher prizes. Since you will have to do this around 2500 times to see this behaviour.

The only way you can trust the system is if the server does NOT change the server seed after each roll (that's what Nonces are for). The server only needs to change the seed if you ask the server to provide the seed to you so you can verify the bets. (i.e: Prime-Dice does in fact implement this correctly)

I'm totally ok if the site removes the higher prizes. But if you are going to keep them, at least code a proper provably-fair system implementation.
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