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Sorry, Dark, to be repetitive.  I'm literally trying to dunk my head into the logic loop to understand if it's problematic, completely irrelevant, or just rinky dink "fold, make the nuts, play more aggressive next hand you newbie!" gameplay. I've gotten virtually no feedback on the issue from any source, so thanks for your time.

I think i'm beginning to agree with you in some aspects - I never categorized it as "Game Breaking", but certainly had to consider, because contrary to nitrogen's opinion, this type of expose is found virtually nowhere that I am familiar with.

The key point that I was trying to make coherent with my argument, though, is that, if all else fails, it's not fair for everyone, because everyone hasn't known about it.  Judging what kind of folds certain user ids make, is not fair for some to do, and others not to.

Thanks for being/have been out there in da pewl with me! 

Thanks for your opinion, DarkDays, but I can't agree with you, because the words to describe the settings "Muck Winning Hands" and "Muck Losing Hands" carry NO RELATION whatsoever to the outcome of the hand, which is "Fold my blind preflop but expose my cards to some others".  To a new player, or a non player, it's confusing at best, which is what i'm trying to explain to you all, considering that neither of these settings have any bearing on your options to muck or show!

Try it yourself: uncheck the boxes and fold the small blind.  You have no option to show.  ever.  Why is the hand reviewer showing cards?


These two options SHOULD do the following.  Let's say I have a losing hand, but i call you down on the river.  I'd like to show the rest of the table what i called you down with, so if I uncheck a box, I can do so!

The other box, is for, well, everyone folded, except for me, and i am the last man/woman standing, so I want the option to muck, or conversely, SHOW my bluff to the table!

These are the only options that exist on any reputable site.

Kevin, while I consider your kind rebuttal- let me offer a few small, meaningless counterpoints before, hopefully, leaving for good.  My concern here is not for the betterment of your book, or the betterment of myself. It is for countless others who find nitrogen years after I have.

In regards to poor grading of wagers - Users want a community where they can chat, share insights, and laugh.  How do you think that poor grading effects this, if everyone is simply using chat to say "[Betslip] OMG GRADE" instead of, "Wow, can't wait for x to start.  Anyone think that pitcher y has a decent slider, or maybe it was just last game?"

Be warned -- Nitrogen will take anything/everything out of context to suit them.  Though I respect your statement about protecting p2p collusion and multi-accounting, stop taking situations out of context.  

For instance, I specifically explained my reward points situation.
1. I had an old account with 12 rewards points.  
1. A. I lost everything, recognized I had a gambling problem, and took the courage to completely disable my account
2.  I quit poker and sports for a year.
3.   I created a new nitrogen sports account, after somewhat of a rebound, and earned 23.75 rewards rakeback points, after losing my very small bankroll.  
4.  I requested .25 points of credit out of those 12 reward points credited if possible.
5.  Answer - "No - and we are investigating you for multi-accounting"
6.  The investigation came back just fine
7.  RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS WHO ARE HONEST WITH YOU.







Most recently, over the last 7 days, I made in depth posts about the incorrect functionality of the "muck winning/muck losing" hands of your software.  Though I did not expect for there to be a bug bounty, or an honest discussion even, what I got was pure nonsense-- That this option to show folds is available on "Many" other live poker sites, yet you can't mention which ones.  Ignition shows you cards of your opponents sometimes, but post 24 hours and with random players... Big difference, and only thing close to this.  

So other poker players can know what I experienced and decide if it's fair to themselves- in summation, we've all played in home-games before and done a "buddy show" i.e. your buddy brings his cards in and shows you QQ, throws it into the muck, after raising 55$ and being 3 bet preflop to 175$.  This gives away no EXACT information really, just possibly a way of expressing belief that your opponent has you beat, and wanting to share your hero fold.  In some games, it's common courtesy to "show all" if any player disagrees with this, and the table will decide what is appropriate AS A GROUP.  

This is fine, as I am used to very serious, and light hearted poker "rules" or "settings"

What i am NOT used to is "SNEAK buddy show ONLINE", where your cards are exposed, even if you fold, and the previous hand is viewable to only those who choose to snap review hands.

Upon immediate review of a hand in a game I was about to join, I witnessed a player's small blind preflop fold be exposed in his hand review.  That's right, I could see his cards IMMEDIATELY after the hand.  Support told me the logic behind this, was that the player had both boxes unchecked.  That answer is laughable at best, since those boxes are created to show bluffs AFTER everyone folds.

I know what you're thinking; headz, that's a bit crazy.  The said player, probably a nutcase anyway, doesn't even know his proper omaha range.  There's probably a very small edge indeed if it were possible to catalogue this type of fold and show it, and even so, the player might know you just saw his fold, and is trying to exploit your exploit!"

Point in case, it doesn't matter if it's exploitable or not.  Poker is a game of HIDDEN INFORMATION. You've ruined the fucking game.

Empirically and theoretically, this is NOT a part of the game of poker, and all players know that in a game of poker, unless explicitly stated, you are NOT PERMITTED to expose your fold in any way whatsoever during, or immediately after, the hand, whether it affects the ranges/outs/player type, or not.  If some subset of players are all in, generally the players who have folded, if they want to discuss or expose their hand, can do so with the permission of the all in players BEFORE HAND. (Since they didn't even make a decision with their hand, except to fold, sometimes they want to play around and make prop bets to enjoy what could have been).  This is understandable in a game of poker, if all parties consent, and why?? Because the players who are all in, have no more choices left. The players exposing their folds, know for certain, that they are not giving opponents any hints of their ranges, because they chose to fold to a large raise, or without a blind or ante posted, preflop.  However, the case of folding a small blind to a minraise preflop, qualifies as different than this! Theoretically, for any other type of reveal, it doesn't matter! It is unethical to show a range of a players hand to a subset of hand watchers/players who know the glitch exists, meanwhile the player and possibly the second subset of the table, doesn't even recognize the issue.  You're cheating multiple people.  It's why some of us play (myself included) to load up a hand and try to solve the puzzle of "what did he have there" or "what did he fold there?"  It's complete nonsense from a game theory perspective that your admins refuse to acknowledge this breach of the fundamentals of poker.

Essentially, if you had your settings set up to show bluffs, which many players used to, nitrogen at some point this year completely disabled your ability to show cards.  This is disgraceful.  Instead, they offered other outside users in game and out of the game, to, more than likely, sneak looks at your cards, and quite possibly develop range information on you.

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To poker players who want to comment:


 the hand I witnessed as picture, was not sitting at the table, was about to join -
https://imgur.com/a/tK24BgH


Regular hand of player in the small blind (I am not seated in this game) :

https://nitrogensports.eu/hand-replayer/?h=5b2159f9e4b0289673821593&r=2291110


Questionable hand of player in the small blind folding preflop (I am not seated in this game), cards exposed in hand reviewer
for outside viewers and in-game players who decided to review the hand :

https://nitrogensports.eu/hand-replayer/?h=5b215425e4b028967382158e&r=2291110

I wanted to issue a friendly reminder to all current and future players at Nitrogen Sports-

     There are many, many different, and better options of books to bring your deposits to, if you choose to gamble. Over the last few years, Nitrogen has rapidly gone downhill, and has rapidly decreased the options for their players, while taking no responsibility for the availability of lines, props, livebets, or even fairly juiced lines.  It's clear that something is amiss, and as a player exiting this sphere, I can only say that my trust has dwindled to the point of being nonexistent.  You have many better options to play real life blackjack/dice/poker, and I can only say that I would recommend you gamble with someone who you trust and respect as similar and equal.  You have much better chances on your own at different places, at building a community of chatting friends, or even a group of outsiders, and not be moderated by "Administrators".  There are many other sites out there that can grade bets fast, if not immediate, and would never mute a user who is all in with his/her betslip and trying to get it graded in a 30 minute interval for the next bet.  Had such a user not had 4g LTE networks available, the user would be left unable to place the next sequential bet which they had planned, because of repeatedly asking for a bet to be graded with no response (Absurd).  Plus, the absolute absurdity of Nitrogen when discussing competition is disgraceful.  Could you imaging mentioning "Burger King" inside of a "McDonalds" and being asked to leave, even if you were saying that the Mcdonald's fries were better?  The support staff is obviously terrified of players leaving; most already have, or plan to.  Essentially, Nitrogen as a business, is serving you shit sandwhiches, and telling you that it's the bread and the meat-maker's fault that the sandwhiches are so nasty and disgusting.

Essentially, I've come to remind all of you shitty, dumb, bad players, who plan to deposit on nitrogen and lose-- DON'T. Lose somewhere else, because believe me, it is in the cards.  When it comes to promotions, Nitrogen's game is to do anything to try to reel you in to feel part of a group or a friendly competition, and the surprise at the end of the rainbow is ***SHOCK*** a "free-bet" that multiple users will "share". How is it even fun to guess such absurdities? Let me remind you that you are risking your REAL money for PLAY money.  I don't care the ratio.  I don't care the odds of success vs. the player pool.  It's a trick designed for you to get HOOKED to the rush, and keep playing, for something that isn't real.  Keep your gambling between friends and acquaintances who you value with respect and trust, where you know that if you lose, the loss will go to a better cause, and if you win, you can do so with enjoyment.

I can personally say that I believe Nitrogen was a great idea from 2012-2014, and they offered a great time, and tons of value, whether you won or lost or just wanted to enjoy a good time.  Their Affiliate rakeback is on point, and great. They would offer lines that players requested.  They would post lines without making "past post" mistakes themselves, and blame players.  They would post halftime lines for many different sports.  Clearly, there was a change, or a disconnect from the player base, to do whatever THEY wanted to, vs. what their members wanted.  I encourage you, find a book that gives you options.  Find a book that treats players as equals.  Find a book that is regulated by some governing body who HAS to prove that their bets are fair in some manner, vs. a random shuffle and a shitty javascript seed that makes virtually no sense.  The bitcoin industry was created on the foundation of the BLOCKCHAIN.. where we can witness each and every transaction begin and end.  Instead of doing some similar showing of their casino bets, from book opening to close, Nitrogen leeches on to the back of the bitcoin agenda to provide a service completely unparalleled to it, quite literally.  The only thing that we can see, is that multiple players have won the dice jackpot twice. Lol, seriously, what are the chances of that?

Please disregard silly promos, and new poker promos as well.  The gambling industry respects products that are FINISHED and complete, not in disarray, with "Muck Winnings Hands" and "Muck Losing Hands" (www.twitter.com/headz4tailz) not even functioning properly in their poker client. We want to be treated as EQUALS, regardless of how many hands we've played, how many points we've earned, or how good we are at the game!  We want access to the same avatars, and we want to know why some are rewarded with "items" and others aren't.  Before you play in one of their silly events, ask yourself, whose money is this that i'm trying to win? It's rake money. Rake money that you risk emptying your account 100% over. Congrats on winning raked money, that other's won't qualify for, because of silly trap rules.  If you had opened an account early on, and disabled the account, and opened a new account a year later, Nitrogen refuses to transfer point balances as small as .25 points to let you earn your free bet.  So, essentially, you have an old account you hustled the fuck out of, with 12 rakeback points.  You have a new account with 23.75 points, no money left to deposit, and ask for the situation to be resolved to earn your .002 FREEBET. Their answer - Nope.  Similarly, how much rake will YOU pay before you get to "compete" in your stupid rakeback tourney event, which you might not even place?  Enough to tilt the fuck out of you with retard cooler pots, and get you all in on sports or casino? Because that's their game-plan, and that's how they support the system as a whole.  By excluding some, including others, providing limited/terrible options, and trying to tilt you into losing.  If you're looking for a good time in 2018, pick a different place to play.