Okay sorry.  I read like 15 pages but must have missed that one.

(But to tell me I'm the one that needs to "use your brain" is a bit much, given I'm the one that first called this a scam, you're the one who sent them like 50 BTC.)

But if those guys are happy with the reward they got, that obviously fine by me.

Agusto Croppo (sp?) is legally entitled to the reward, under the law of very state in the Union.  He did everything that could be possibly expected under these circumstances to procure the return of the bitcoins.

Reward offers are legally binding (even if only verbal, and in this case they are in writing).

Apparently, Phoenix and Maui have decided to ignore the reward issue, in spite of the fact that they got exactly what they wanted as a result of their reward offer:  The work of highly skilled computer experts to track their BTC (with no guarantee of success).

Time for the sleuths to get the real names of Phoenix and Maui so he can get his reward.

And BTW, this was pretty cool.  The free market of ideas at work.  Not pretty, but it works.

Hmmmm.

Is their posting this info evidence that they aren't involved?

Why don't you two post pictures with today's paper so we can get after the real scumbags, if they aren't you?  This is the third time I've asked.  Your ignoring that request is very suspicious.

I have to say that I tend to agree that it is COMPLETELY unbelievable that an experienced member of this forum, with knowledge of all the scams in this industry, would send off that much money without the most basic verification of this company.  They claim they sent the money on the basis of two answering machine recordings, and a few other meaningless "data points".  They said they spent 2 days validating this company.  It took me literally 2 minutes to realize this was a scam.  (I take credit for calling it a scam first, BTW).

Their early posts are exactly what you would expect from the scammers.  Attacking people that called it a scam, calling them noobs.  Saying they did due dilligence and concluded this company was legit because there were so many "data points" showing it was legit.  Saying they spent lots of BTC on their products.

They finally admit it is a scam after the website is taken down, i.e. when pushing the scam no longer could benefit the scammers.

I hate to say it guys, but until we see Phoenix and Maui smiling with today's New York Times, you be fools to assume they are not criminals doing what criminals do.  Lie their asses off.

BTW, the fact that Maui is appaently one of those guys that supposedly buys a pre-order then tries to sell it on Ebay for a big markup (when there were supposedly tons of pre-orders remaining at the list price) puts him in the scammer category in any event, IMAO, and I'm not interesting in helping him recover his BTC.

So Phoenix, if that Avatar pic is you, why not post another to prove it is in fact you?   (From a criminal, expect a rant calling me a noob, or this post to be ignored like the last two.  From an innocent person, expect a pic).

Amen to that.

Yeah it would prove it.  No scammer, with the possibility that the forum pool is going to find out the username of the criminal (bitcoins paid to the scam have been traced the this forum's hardware buying pool, if you can believe it), would post their picture under that username, thus proving they are the criminal.  All the FBI would have to do is trace the I.P. address of that member, then go find the face that used it.

On the other hand, no innocent, good guy, as Phoenix is supposed to be (and I take the forum members at their words) would mind posting his pic with today's paper if really wanted to remain a trusted forum member, given the very unusual and unfortunate circumstances anyway.  Especially Phoenix, who claims to already have his pic up as his Avatar.

I know I'd post my pic in a second if I were in the horrible circumstances they claim to be in.

And obviously, if they are on the up-and-up, I really feel for them and might even send them a 6 pack.

But one thing is clear, a forum member (active or not, who knows?), someone in the buying pool, is in on this scam.

I don't see any pics yet.

Hey pheonix and maui, you guy willing to post a pic of yourselves with today's newspaper?  That would pretty much prove you've got nothing to hide.  And I'd really like to get the thought that you guys are involved out of the discussion.

If you refuse, that's also pretty conclusive.

The fact that the scammer's are buying hardware in this forum's group pool indicates pretty clearly that an experienced member of the forum is involved in this scam.  Obviously into bitcoin mining themselves.

Any experienced forum members writing in defense of this scam?

Oh, I guess there are a few, eh?  The prime suspects are the guy who said he bought a bunch of them, and had the block chain entry to "prove it," and the Hawaii dude.  

Posts an order on his scam website, then pays with a different wallet, then posts to "prove" he really believes in this scam.  I'm not an expert in the block chain, so if this would not work for some reason, I'd be glad to hear an explanation as to why.

Of course, it could be someone who doesn't post much too.  But I'd love to see if someone could track down the pool member who is buying hardware with these bitcoins.  Seems like we could identify the criminal that way.  Wouldn't that be possible for the guy who runs the pool?

If we got the forum member's i.d., then we'd have an email address, and the feds might even be able to get his I.P. address.  And we're off to drag this/these scumbags to prison.

Guys, we need to use some common sense here.

If you were "Rebecca", and saw this thread proving beyond any serious doubt CTS Miner is a SCAM, but you actually had a real product and just botched the rollout, what would you do?

Very simple:  You would shoot a quick video introducing yourself (i.e. showing that you exist), and showing your fab facility (with you in the video to prove its real), post it on youtube, and direct this forum to that video.  It would take you 1 hour, and your "first phase" of orders would be filled in 24 hours.  (Search youtube for butterflylabs if you want to see examples).  I.e. 1 hour of work on such a video would net you $5 MILLION DOLLARS IN PRE-SALES.  Is it reasonable that they would not invest this 1 hour to make $5 million if they COULD?

But since there is no "Rebecca," no fab facility, no 20nm chips, and nothing but a smelly criminal's apartment somewhere, that will not be happening.

The people arguing that there is even a chance that this is a legitimate company are either straight-up fools, or in on it.

I already saw a scam on a domaine very similar to the one above.  An ad ran on google for about 6 hours if you searched "butterfly labs", on a website clone of the butterfly website, offering a phase 1 "clearance" and promising to ship 3 Monarch modules, immediate shipping, for 6 BTC.  I almost fell for it until I noticed the slight change in domain.

Can someone please launch a denial of service attack on these idiots.

The microsoft story is talking about the very chip in the picture.  So there's nothing wrong or illegal about that. Similarly, two of others are stories about the ARM processor, so showing a picture of it it perfectly legal, and I assume authorized by the the chip manufacturer.

The fourth is a minor copyright violation (not trademark, because they are not representing it as a different product) by a university on its electrical engineering degree page.  It's quite conceivable that they paid a small fee to use that picture, or just used it without permission knowing the worst case scenario is a cease and desist letter. By all means, send "Rebecca" all your bitcoins.

And guys, the "Number Left In Stock" thing on their website is fake too.  They are surely making it go down to look like they are selling their imaginary machines.  Trust me, they will always have some "in stock" for any sucker willing to pay up.

And BTW, the photo they showed was of a TRADEMARKED product.  There is no legal way to use a trademark to advertise a different product.  The entire purpose of trademark is to avoid consumer confusion.  Using a trademarked product as a "stand in" for a different product is the definition of a trademark violation.   I.e. you can't "sell" or "lend" your trademark like you can your copyright (which is to protect a creative work of some type from commercial copying) for a different product.  Handshake Solutions would NEVER have consented to this fraudulent use of their trademark, EVER.

This company STOLE IT.

That chip they show on facebook is a TRADEMARKED CHIP from another company called "Handshake Solutions", and it is NOT a mining chip.  So yes, they illegally used that trademark (not copyright, i'm a lawyer), and yes, that is illegal in Britain and everywhere else.

NOTE THAT "REBECCA", AKA VINNY, HAS NOT ANSWERED THE SIMPLE QUESTION THAT COULD SORT THIS ALL OUT:  WHO IS YOUR "WORLD FAMOUS" PARENT COMPANY?

The first poster after the "press release" is part of the scam too, I'm guessing.

He's a noob who just HAPPENS to live right down the street from the supposed fab facility.

We can look forward to his next post, when he'll report that he visited their super secret factory and saw all the chip geniuses building prototypes or something.

These guys thought they were going to make like $5 million on this scam.  Let's see if we can keep that close to zero.

LOOOOL

Take a look at the list of random third world people that "like" CTS Miner on Facebook!

OMFG

In case you missed the question:

Who is your parent company?

So they've been working on this for a year and have never announced a thing on the internet until now?

Until someone goes and views this facility, I'm assuming its another scam, and you'd be a fool to give them your bitcoins.

The code on their webpage looks suspiciously like that of scam site bitcoincloudhashing.com