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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 25, 2014, 04:31:45 AM
While an amusing scenario to envision, there's no resemblance to the situation here.  In this specific case, we are talking about people that have the actual logs of coins mined, transferred, and coin addresses involved, so there's really no anonymity at all.  We are talking only about the specific case where the theft is directly traceable, as confirmed by the combination of protocol traffic and the resulting blockchain records.  You can't get "arrested" in any case, but nobody has to honor your payment.  If an exchange's terms of service state that it will not exchange currency that can be traced to an address involved with theft traceable to logs and the blockchain there's not much you could complain about.  They can always simply send your BTC back to you and refuse to exchange it.  The currency has no value unless it can be used to purchase goods or services, or to be exchanged for other currency.  There's no need to "arrest" anyone.  This is not particularly different from spam filtering or blocking DDOS atacks when they are detected.  It isn't worth the trouble to deal with small scale theft, but on the scale of spoofing an entire mining pool, or several pools as we have experienced this week?  Yes, I think there's an interest.  The status quo is an undeveloped wild west, and it would be foolish to think that large scale spoofing and theft will go unpunished in the long run.

Not sure why I'm still arguing with you even though I should be working but anyway... you are making a few incorrect assumptions: 1) it is somehow possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the origin of the coin is fraudulent, even after gazillions of complex transactions; 2) there is always going to be an exchange involved in these transactions (or some other "cooperating" entity); and 3) the entity attempting to exchange the coins is somehow related to the fraud and should be punished. As I mentioned above: Who decides that "an address involved in theft, fraud, etc."? What happens to a legitimate merchant who sells a product or a service to one of the addresses "involved"?

What happens to a buyer who pays in bitcoin and never receives his product?  A vendor that has one or two bad transactions might get away with this, but on a large scale, they will not.  How is this any different from other assumptions of fair play with this or any currency?  If large scale theft goes completely unchecked, then the currency loses value.  Taken to the limit, it has no value.  The "1 to 2 hops" I originally mentioned certainly aren't "gazillions" of transactions.  I've read your responses to "comeonalready" in other threads, don't waste you're time trying to troll me, just stick to reality. 
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 25, 2014, 04:01:06 AM
If you could track to to a bitcoin address, it ought to be possible for the crytpocurrency community to "blacklist" an address used by thieves.  Since the transactions have a complete history in the blockchain, an exchange could reject transactions that are traceable back to an address involved in theft, fraud, etc.

This is so wrong on so many levels...  Roll Eyes

Without getting into technical details on how exactly would you do that, think about this: who decides that "an address involved in theft, fraud, etc."? What happens to a legitimate merchant who sells a product or a service to one of the addresses "involved"?

It's seems you would like to bring over the clusterfuck that is credit card chargebacks/disputes over to crypto currencies. Thank you, but no (and thank Satoshi this is not really possible).

You say it's not possible, but if you have the complete list of transactions, it is possible to deny exchange to other currencies.  You can't prevent exchange of coins within the currency, but there's no reason anyone has to willingly accept a bitcoin that was originally stolen from a miner in exchange for a traditional currency.  In reality, the value of bitcoins today is only as good as what you are able to exchange them for in terms of real goods and services, or in traditional currencies.  While a thief may steal a bitcoin and pawn it off on someone else, here's no rule that says an exchange has to accept that bitcoin address for exchange with a dollar, or other currency.

I'm sure you would love to be arrested in a bank because the greenbacks you gave to the cashier were touched by your friendly neighborhood drug dealer a couple of "hops" ago, based on an anonymous tip Roll Eyes. What could possibly go wrong with that.


While an amusing scenario to envision, there's no resemblance to the situation here.  In this specific case, we are talking about people that have the actual logs of coins mined, transferred, and coin addresses involved, so there's really no anonymity at all.  We are talking only about the specific case where the theft is directly traceable, as confirmed by the combination of protocol traffic and the resulting blockchain records.  You can't get "arrested" in any case, but nobody has to honor your payment.  If an exchange's terms of service state that it will not exchange currency that can be traced to an address involved with theft traceable to logs and the blockchain there's not much you could complain about.  They can always simply send your BTC back to you and refuse to exchange it.  The currency has no value unless it can be used to purchase goods or services, or to be exchanged for other currency.  There's no need to "arrest" anyone.  This is not particularly different from spam filtering or blocking DDOS atacks when they are detected.  It isn't worth the trouble to deal with small scale theft, but on the scale of spoofing an entire mining pool, or several pools as we have experienced this week?  Yes, I think there's an interest.  The status quo is an undeveloped wild west, and it would be foolish to think that large scale spoofing and theft will go unpunished in the long run.
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 25, 2014, 02:19:38 AM
If you could track to to a bitcoin address, it ought to be possible for the crytpocurrency community to "blacklist" an address used by thieves.  Since the transactions have a complete history in the blockchain, an exchange could reject transactions that are traceable back to an address involved in theft, fraud, etc.

This is so wrong on so many levels...  Roll Eyes

Without getting into technical details on how exactly would you do that, think about this: who decides that "an address involved in theft, fraud, etc."? What happens to a legitimate merchant who sells a product or a service to one of the addresses "involved"?

It's seems you would like to bring over the clusterfuck that is credit card chargebacks/disputes over to crypto currencies. Thank you, but no (and thank Satoshi this is not really possible).

You say it's not possible, but if you have the complete list of transactions, it is possible to deny exchange to other currencies.  You can't prevent exchange of coins within the currency, but there's no reason anyone has to willingly accept a bitcoin that was originally stolen from a miner in exchange for a traditional currency.  In reality, the value of bitcoins today is only as good as what you are able to exchange them for in terms of real goods and services, or in traditional currencies.  While a thief may steal a bitcoin and pawn it off on someone else, here's no rule that says an exchange has to accept that bitcoin address for exchange with a dollar, or other currency.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 25, 2014, 01:57:39 AM
If anyone has packet captures of work packets sent after their client was hijacked, could you post or send them? I'd be curious to see what they were mining. If it's DOGE, I'm also set up to extract the payout address from the coinbase parameters. A packet should look like this (I think this was an old packet capture from Clevermining):

Code:
{"id":null,"method":"mining.notify","params":["3a61","34d9b767ab5f9e4270ca11e6f823da99af2b6da089d7cb21490c3cce4831ac63","01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff2703780702062f503253482f0436221c5308","0d2f6e6f64655374726174756d2f0000000001241b6d23db1200001976a914312f0edfb1647e2f9ddbc6a0faacf3c3c8d1d21588ac00000000",["e8c40423f1291090ace9ac3a88469cf61561ad9b0f06de877f9309b846264b9b","446dea3005104d328824ae1d93b6b26d6c18c69ed6cf3d5aa8a585eeebea534a","032c4da808bf500177768605095431ee58b2773e6397db02e93eae0db86952a4","d5e6cc3bc5dc96786f97cf42a07dff996ac4b9e572844300a0065c719d9ef186","5d7d235e26d856e1bb70ea2b669fa50b6ecf3256fc26ff0ac52d2ea2de4f5c08","2ab06ed0f757226b38213aeeaca5281d013f38259cc22ae04721ab35534d83fe","f66308601f97700e503e8cea31e8d1b57f34530054a222b4bb6f99015fd462a3"],"00000002","1b33c012","531c2247",true]}

I had set up packet capture on the outside of my firewall, and was dying to get a client.reconnect message and a connection to a rogue server followed by mining.notify messages, but I never received one.  If you happen to track one down, please do share what you find here as I will be reading!

It would be great to find a miner who was keeping share logs AND actually solved a block, as then we could trace it to a wallet address, perhaps seeing how much they were able to siphon and where it might ultimately have ended up.


If you could track to to a bitcoin address, it ought to be possible for the crytpocurrency community to "blacklist" an address used by thieves.  Since the transactions have a complete history in the blockchain, an exchange could reject transactions that are traceable back to an address involved in theft, fraud, etc.

Whats to stop them from creating a new wallet and transferring to new wallet ...

EDIT: I'll bet the coins have been "tumbled" multiple times and are lost by now ...

They can do that as much as they want, but all transactions can be traced back to the blacklisted address because they are all in the blockchain.  Any address that is only 1 or 2 hops away could be considered "tainted" by the blacklisted address...
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 25, 2014, 01:47:40 AM
If anyone has packet captures of work packets sent after their client was hijacked, could you post or send them? I'd be curious to see what they were mining. If it's DOGE, I'm also set up to extract the payout address from the coinbase parameters. A packet should look like this (I think this was an old packet capture from Clevermining):

Code:
{"id":null,"method":"mining.notify","params":["3a61","34d9b767ab5f9e4270ca11e6f823da99af2b6da089d7cb21490c3cce4831ac63","01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff2703780702062f503253482f0436221c5308","0d2f6e6f64655374726174756d2f0000000001241b6d23db1200001976a914312f0edfb1647e2f9ddbc6a0faacf3c3c8d1d21588ac00000000",["e8c40423f1291090ace9ac3a88469cf61561ad9b0f06de877f9309b846264b9b","446dea3005104d328824ae1d93b6b26d6c18c69ed6cf3d5aa8a585eeebea534a","032c4da808bf500177768605095431ee58b2773e6397db02e93eae0db86952a4","d5e6cc3bc5dc96786f97cf42a07dff996ac4b9e572844300a0065c719d9ef186","5d7d235e26d856e1bb70ea2b669fa50b6ecf3256fc26ff0ac52d2ea2de4f5c08","2ab06ed0f757226b38213aeeaca5281d013f38259cc22ae04721ab35534d83fe","f66308601f97700e503e8cea31e8d1b57f34530054a222b4bb6f99015fd462a3"],"00000002","1b33c012","531c2247",true]}

I had set up packet capture on the outside of my firewall, and was dying to get a client.reconnect message and a connection to a rogue server followed by mining.notify messages, but I never received one.  If you happen to track one down, please do share what you find here as I will be reading!

It would be great to find a miner who was keeping share logs AND actually solved a block, as then we could trace it to a wallet address, perhaps seeing how much they were able to siphon and where it might ultimately have ended up.


If you could track to to a bitcoin address, it ought to be possible for the crytpocurrency community to "blacklist" an address used by thieves.  Since the transactions have a complete history in the blockchain, an exchange could reject transactions that are traceable back to an address involved in theft, fraud, etc.
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 25, 2014, 01:42:47 AM
I'm trying to setup CudaMiner on Ubuntu 13.10, but I'm getting the following error compiling it.  Any ideas?
Code:
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner'
Making all in compat
make[2]: Entering directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat'
Making all in jansson
make[3]: Entering directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat/jansson'
make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat/jansson'
make[3]: Entering directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat'
make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat'
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner/compat'
make[2]: Entering directory `/home/berniehglee/CudaMiner'
g++  -g -O2 -pthread -L/usr/local/cuda/lib64  -o cudaminer cudaminer-cpu-miner.o cudaminer-util.o wrapnvml.o cudaminer-sha2.o cudaminer-scrypt.o cudaminer-maxcoin.o cudaminer-blakecoin.o cudaminer-sha3.o cudaminer-scrypt-jane.o salsa_kernel.o sha256.o keccak.o blake.o cudaminer-blake.o fermi_kernel.o kepler_kernel.o test_kernel.o nv_kernel.o nv_kernel2.o titan_kernel.o -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -lcurl compat/jansson/libjansson.a -lpthread  -lcudart -fopenmp -lcrypto -lssl  -lcrypto -lssl
/usr/bin/ld: wrapnvml.o: undefined reference to symbol 'dlclose@@GLIBC_2.2.5'
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2: error adding symbols: DSO missing from command line


Hi,
  If you edit the Makefile.am and remove the "-ldl" and rerun the autogen.sh, and make, does it link, or not?  Does your system have a libdl.so or libdl.a in /lib, /lib64, or /usr/lib or /usr/lib64?

Cheers,
  John
7  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 24, 2014, 02:01:09 AM
I assume cudaminer honors reconnect requests because a quick 'grep shows that it has logging code for a reconnect message.  Given the man-in-the-middle/spoofing attacks going on with several of the pools, there should probably be a way to tell cudaminer not to accept reconnect requests when started with a particular command line flag, and optionally to log the reconnect data or report it in some way.

is there a thread where I can read more about man in the middle attacks with pool mining?


It's happening on a bunch of pools.  So far I've heard: cleverminer, wafflepool, multipool.us, and others that I'm forgetting just now.  The wafflepool thread has some extensive discussion about it, protocol captures, etc.

I see people are now working on patches for other miners (just got back from dinner so I'm catching up):
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433634.3200

Kalroth just posted  patch for his miner:
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433634.3220
  https://github.com/Kalroth/cgminer-3.7.2-kalroth/commit/d78f8c896010049a06275db13a2816c0e201e41e
Skimmed through it. It isn't clear to me is cudaminer even actually impacted?

All miners that respond to "reconnect" messages sent by the pool are impacted, which is most of them....
8  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 24, 2014, 12:13:59 AM
I assume cudaminer honors reconnect requests because a quick 'grep shows that it has logging code for a reconnect message.  Given the man-in-the-middle/spoofing attacks going on with several of the pools, there should probably be a way to tell cudaminer not to accept reconnect requests when started with a particular command line flag, and optionally to log the reconnect data or report it in some way.

is there a thread where I can read more about man in the middle attacks with pool mining?


It's happening on a bunch of pools.  So far I've heard: cleverminer, wafflepool, multipool.us, and others that I'm forgetting just now.  The wafflepool thread has some extensive discussion about it, protocol captures, etc.

I see people are now working on patches for other miners (just got back from dinner so I'm catching up):
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433634.3200

Kalroth just posted  patch for his miner:
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433634.3220
  https://github.com/Kalroth/cgminer-3.7.2-kalroth/commit/d78f8c896010049a06275db13a2816c0e201e41e
9  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 24, 2014, 12:10:36 AM
I assume cudaminer honors reconnect requests because a quick 'grep shows that it has logging code for a reconnect message.  Given the man-in-the-middle/spoofing attacks going on with several of the pools, there should probably be a way to tell cudaminer not to accept reconnect requests when started with a particular command line flag, and optionally to log the reconnect data or report it in some way.

is there a thread where I can read more about man in the middle attacks with pool mining?


It's happening on a bunch of pools.  So far I've heard: cleverminer, wafflepool, multipool.us, and others that I'm forgetting just now.  The wafflepool thread has some extensive discussion about it, protocol captures, etc.

I see people are now working on patches for other miners (just got back from dinner so I'm catching up):
  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433634.3200
10  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 24, 2014, 12:08:11 AM
I assume cudaminer honors reconnect requests because a quick 'grep shows that it has logging code for a reconnect message.  Given the man-in-the-middle/spoofing attacks going on with several of the pools, there should probably be a way to tell cudaminer not to accept reconnect requests when started with a particular command line flag, and optionally to log the reconnect data or report it in some way.

is there a thread where I can read more about man in the middle attacks with pool mining?


It's happening on a bunch of pools.  So far I've heard: cleverminer, wafflepool, multipool.us, and others that I'm forgetting just now.  The wafflepool thread has some extensive discussion about it, protocol captures, etc.
11  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 23, 2014, 09:48:06 PM
I assume cudaminer honors reconnect requests because a quick 'grep shows that it has logging code for a reconnect message.  Given the man-in-the-middle/spoofing attacks going on with several of the pools, there should probably be a way to tell cudaminer not to accept reconnect requests when started with a particular command line flag, and optionally to log the reconnect data or report it in some way.
12  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 22, 2014, 07:15:55 PM
I'm trying out my luck at multipools, but I've run into a small problem: Sometimes, at random, the GPU drops to 0% usage. I can't find any particular reason for this, it isn't a switch to another coin or something the like. It happens with Tompool and on the beta Blackcoinpool. Does anyone run into the same problems as me?
Doesn't happen with AMD at that same moment BTW, the coin switch does.

I have been seeing this on wafflepool recently.  In my case, this occurs for periods ranging from 5 seconds, up to as long as 3 minutes.  I hadn't observed this behavior until wafflepool changed their stratum code about a week back, but I now see it happen about 6 times per hour.  I sent protocol logs and idle info to the wafflepool guys and they are looking into it.  Some other NVIDIA users have seen the same issue at wafflepool, but I hadn't previously heard of anything like this going on with other pools.  The wafflepool guys are looking into potentially tweaking their stratum code, but I haven't heard anything concrete yet.
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 22, 2014, 01:33:39 AM
is the CudaMiner master branch broken atm.? I'm getting an error when compiling under ubuntu 13.10:

Code:
g++  -g -O2 -pthread -L/usr/local/cuda/lib64  -o cudaminer cudaminer-cpu-miner.o cudaminer-util.o wrapnvml.o cudaminer-sha2.o cudaminer-scrypt.o cudaminer-maxcoin.o cudaminer-blakecoin.o cudaminer-sha3.o cudaminer-scrypt-jane.o salsa_kernel.o sha256.o keccak.o blake.o cudaminer-blake.o fermi_kernel.o kepler_kernel.o test_kernel.o nv_kernel.o nv_kernel2.o titan_kernel.o -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -lcurl compat/jansson/libjansson.a -lpthread  -lcudart -fopenmp -lcrypto -lssl  -lcrypto -lssl
/usr/bin/ld: wrapnvml.o: undefined reference to symbol 'dlclose@@GLIBC_2.2.5'
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2: error adding symbols: DSO missing from command line
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status

A -l dl or -ldl (??)  linker option in the Makefile.am might help  (don't forget ./autogen.sh afterwards)


cudaminer_LDFLAGS       = $(PTHREAD_FLAGS) @CUDA_LDFLAGS@ -l
cudaminer_LDFLAGS       = $(PTHREAD_FLAGS) @CUDA_LDFLAGS@ -ld
cudaminer_LDFLAGS       = $(PTHREAD_FLAGS) @CUDA_LDFLAGS@ -ldl

none of them worked Sad

Are you cross compiling or anything unusual?
What do you get if you list your system libraries, libdl.so and libdl.a should be part of your Linux install, hrere's a listing on my CentOS 6.5 box:
orion - johns:/home/johns/cudaminer/mine % ls -al /lib/libdl*
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 17892 Nov 21 15:13 /lib/libdl-2.12.so
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root    13 Feb 27 22:28 /lib/libdl.so.2 -> libdl-2.12.so
orion - johns:/home/johns/cudaminer/mine % ls -al /lib64/libdl*
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 22536 Nov 21 15:38 /lib64/libdl-2.12.so
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root    13 Feb 27 14:16 /lib64/libdl.so.2 -> libdl-2.12.so


14  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 21, 2014, 07:15:56 PM
I have also observed the same behavior on 3 machines, and I have been collecting logs of GPU utilization through nvidia-smi which correlate to the cudaminer log I'm also keeping.  I ran cudaminer with "-P" so I've also got a lot of the network protocol.  I captured this happening probably ten times last night.  It occurs on machines that are also connected to different stratum endpoints.  So it's not just an issue with useast, or uswest, for example.


I should also add that the observed idle periods are occasionally quite long, often 15 to 20 seconds.  This seems like a very long time to me.  When it occurs, no timeouts or errors are printed by cudaminer, so from its point of view there is no problem.  This behavior began when wafflepool switched to the new stratum code the other day.  Prior to that, I never observed this behavior before.

Any chance you have the protocol dump around when they're idling?  Might let me know whats being sent/not being sent during that time...

Yes, I have been logging both the protocol and the GPU utilization for the last 12 hours or so, so I should have several examples of where this occurs in my log.
Right now I see it happening again at about 1:40pm central time...idle for about 1 minute and 45 seconds before it recovered.  No errors from cudaminer when it happens, but no activity either.  Same cudaminer binary worked fine for the last 2-3 weeks before the stratum change.  I can send you a PM with a gzipped copy of the logs if you like.  I sent you a short log snippet already last night, but sending the whole log may be more useful for you.

If you can, email me the relevant part (maybe the last 3-4 messages from the server before idle, and the 3-4 messages when idling stops).

Just sent you a relevant section of my log for one of these cases that occured at 13:40pm central time today.  I can also send you full logs if that isn't enough.  I emailed it to your gmail address.
15  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 21, 2014, 06:43:36 PM
I have also observed the same behavior on 3 machines, and I have been collecting logs of GPU utilization through nvidia-smi which correlate to the cudaminer log I'm also keeping.  I ran cudaminer with "-P" so I've also got a lot of the network protocol.  I captured this happening probably ten times last night.  It occurs on machines that are also connected to different stratum endpoints.  So it's not just an issue with useast, or uswest, for example.


I should also add that the observed idle periods are occasionally quite long, often 15 to 20 seconds.  This seems like a very long time to me.  When it occurs, no timeouts or errors are printed by cudaminer, so from its point of view there is no problem.  This behavior began when wafflepool switched to the new stratum code the other day.  Prior to that, I never observed this behavior before.

Any chance you have the protocol dump around when they're idling?  Might let me know whats being sent/not being sent during that time...

Yes, I have been logging both the protocol and the GPU utilization for the last 12 hours or so, so I should have several examples of where this occurs in my log.
Right now I see it happening again at about 1:40pm central time...idle for about 1 minute and 45 seconds before it recovered.  No errors from cudaminer when it happens, but no activity either.  Same cudaminer binary worked fine for the last 2-3 weeks before the stratum change.  I can send you a PM with a gzipped copy of the logs if you like.  I sent you a short log snippet already last night, but sending the whole log may be more useful for you.
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 21, 2014, 02:50:55 PM
I've been having the same issue as a few others since the new stratum server came online.  As I write this, two of my 3 GPUs are idle while the third is hard at work.  They idle for between 10 seconds and 5 minutes, which is ridiculous.  What can I do to fix this?

My current CudaMiner command:

Code:
"C:\Miners\cudaminer.exe" -R 1 -C 1 -d 0 -a scrypt -o "stratum+tcp://uswest.wafflepool.com:3333" -u [address] -p x

I don't have much mining power (600kH/s) so I can't afford to have them idle for so long.

How exactly do you know they're idling?

I have also observed the same behavior on 3 machines, and I have been collecting logs of GPU utilization through nvidia-smi which correlate to the cudaminer log I'm also keeping.  I ran cudaminer with "-P" so I've also got a lot of the network protocol.  I captured this happening probably ten times last night.  It occurs on machines that are also connected to different stratum endpoints.  So it's not just an issue with useast, or uswest, for example.


I should also add that the observed idle periods are occasionally quite long, often 15 to 20 seconds.  This seems like a very long time to me.  When it occurs, no timeouts or errors are printed by cudaminer, so from its point of view there is no problem.  This behavior began when wafflepool switched to the new stratum code the other day.  Prior to that, I never observed this behavior before.
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 21, 2014, 02:47:46 PM
I've been having the same issue as a few others since the new stratum server came online.  As I write this, two of my 3 GPUs are idle while the third is hard at work.  They idle for between 10 seconds and 5 minutes, which is ridiculous.  What can I do to fix this?

My current CudaMiner command:

Code:
"C:\Miners\cudaminer.exe" -R 1 -C 1 -d 0 -a scrypt -o "stratum+tcp://uswest.wafflepool.com:3333" -u [address] -p x

I don't have much mining power (600kH/s) so I can't afford to have them idle for so long.

How exactly do you know they're idling?

I have also observed the same behavior on 3 machines, and I have been collecting logs of GPU utilization through nvidia-smi which correlate to the cudaminer log I'm also keeping.  I ran cudaminer with "-P" so I've also got a lot of the network protocol.  I captured this happening probably ten times last night.  It occurs on machines that are also connected to different stratum endpoints.  So it's not just an issue with useast, or uswest, for example.
18  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] cudaMiner - a new litecoin mining application [Windows/Linux] on: March 21, 2014, 04:03:11 AM
I guess my question is mainly;

1) will long usb cables provide much noise and performance drop? I am talking the high quality, thick insulated usb 3 cables, 5m or so
2) the usb 3 risers should be fine to be connected into x16 slots right? They should connect just to one part I believe? Never had to look at this before

Thanks

the main issues from an engineering perspective are:
- a delay that may be outside specs for PCIe (finite travel speed of signals in copper wire...)
- excessive signal attenuation (this is HF signals after all)

I would not recommend going past 1m... Sure you can try, but I am sceptical.

At work we have a number of NVIDIA QuadroPlex boxes that are cabled to a card that goes into the host machine.  The cables on these boxes are something approximating 2m in length.  The host card contains some kind of PCIe bridge chip and somewhere, either on the host card or in the external box backplane, there's a PCIe switch to allow the two GPUs in the box to connect to the single PCIe slot in the host machine.  I have no idea how special the hardware is there, but clearly the 2m long cable doesn't cause problems in that scenario.  They use VHDCI cables for the link from the host card to the external box.  I know that the USB-based PCIe riser cables are nothing compared to what NVIDIA did for the QuadroPlex, but the QuadroPlex might be considered the top-end version of what is feasible.  Besides the QuadroPlex boxes, there are various vendors that sell other variants of high-end external PCIe backplanes with on-board PCIe switches and the like.  The only problem is that all of these external boxes tend to cost $5k to $10k for an empty box of PCIe slots and power supply.

It would be interesting to see how well these low-cost PCIe risers would work if they used a higher quality cable more along the lines of what NVIDIA does for the QuadroPlex.

Since Christian brought up the HF frequencies:  One thing that's not so good about building the "milk crate" or "open air" machine that lots of people do is that with no computer case, there's no RF shielding, and you're likely going to emit all manner of RFI, polluting the radio spectrum with all kinds of terrible hash.  As an amateur radio hobbyist, I would beg that people take that into consideration and consider ways to do better than leaving the boards just laying on a shelf.  If you've got a pile of motherboards sitting on a shelf, some conductive mesh (e.g. for window screen) fashioned into a faraday cage around the systems would help null that out...
19  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 21, 2014, 03:42:41 AM

I'm not convinced that the only way to parallelize these algorithms is the way that it's being done currently.  It is often possible to write GPU codes where several threads or even a whole warp/wavefront work collectively on an algorithm step.  I haven't looked at the details of scrypt-chacha specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are alternative algorithm formulations other than the one you refer to.  The top-end GPUs today have 8GB to 12GB of RAM.  In the next two years, there will be GPUs and other GPU-like hardware (e.g. Xeon Phi) that will have significantly more memory than they do now, likely in the range of 32GB.  I've read analyst articles that expect that Intel will put at least 16GB of eDRAM onto the next Xeon Phi (though likely on its own separate die), a much larger scale variant of what Intel is already doing for integrated graphics.  Next week is NVIDIA's GPU conference, perhaps there will be some public announcements about what they're doing for their next-gen GPUs.
 

That's all good information, and I'm sure you're quite correct on there being alternate ways to rework these hashes for new hardware - that's the one aspect of mining my knowledge is very shallow on.  Regarding those badboy GPU's with 8 and 12GB of memory - they aren't real common, and their cost would be prohibitive compared to running multiple "smaller" GPU's, but that's where the schedule of increasing N comes in - it's taking a stab at where computing power will be in the future, and it could be very wrong, but it's still scaling up the requirements over time.

The Xeon Phi looks to be an interesting beast, and I was unfamiliar with it until you brought it up.  The specs call for 61 cores at 1.238GHz for the high end machine, which doesn't sound massively parallel.  Time will tell, but I'm not going to be the guinea pig to plunk down $4,000 USD to find out.

Christian Buchner (of cudaminer) has been in touch with nVidia, and they're on board with crypto-mining - I believe they've evan assisted with optimizaing some of his kernel code.  Regarding their announcement, I do know that their Maxwell architecture is already providing improved performance per watt on the mid-range 750Ti card.

The NVIDIA Titan cards have 6GB, and they tend to hover close to a kilobuck.  The Xeon Phi (in its current form at least) is no match for state-of-the-art GPUs.  I mentioned Xeon Phi only to provide context that multiple vendors are already building hardware with large high bandwidth memories now, and that the memory capacities (again, from multiple vendors) are expected to go up dramatically in the near future.
I understand the sticker shock, $2K to $4K is costly, but then that's what the high-end ASIC boards cost for crypto currency mining.  To keep the ASICs out, there just has to be a commodity option that's price-competitive, and there are definitely high-end GPUs that, for a memory-bandwidth-bound algorithm at least, should still be more cost effective than low-volume ASIC boards for any non-trivial memory capacity.
20  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][POOL] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com on: March 20, 2014, 07:19:18 PM
i can see what you are saying,  so as ltc was the asnwer to BTC becoming too high in difficulty due to ASICS we gotta wait and see what the answer to LTC is against the coming ASICS., if there is a such a coin that stands a chance and pools can adapt to it that would be the new standard...

An easy way of making ASICs unprofitable is to design algorithms that require large memory buffers and that have performance bound by memory bandwidth rather than arithmetic.  ASICs provide the greatest benefits for algorithms that are arithmetic-bound, and they provide the least benefits for algorithms that are bound by memory bandwidth.  By combining a large size memory buffer with random access patterns, we would get a level playing field that evolves very slowly.  GPUs of today have 200-300GB/s memory bandwidth which has only increased by a small margin generation-to-generation.  GPUs are expected to get a nice jump in bandwidth when memory technologies like die-stacked memory show up in a few years, but after that bandwidth growth will be very very slow again.  A large part of the complexity and cost in a GPU is the memory system, and this is something that is only feasible to build because millions of GPUs are sold per week.  By developing an algorithm that requires a hardware capability that is only cost-feasible in commodity devices that are manufactured in quantities of several million or more, it would push ASICs completely out, and keep them for a very long time, perhaps indefinitely.  It's one thing to fab an ASIC chip, it's another thing to couple it to a high-capacity high-bandwidth memory system.  If you design an algorithm that uses the "memory wall" as a fundamental feature, it will make ASICs no better than any other hardware approach.

Great Post and so true...

If they want a leveled plane of mining, that should be the way...

Best Regards,

LPC

Ya, so there's already coins that do this.  YACoin was the first, and currently takes 4 MB per thread to complete a calculation.  That will be 8 MB on May 31st.  All the other scrypt-chacha coins will get there eventually, but YAC is the trailblazer Cheesy

Sorry, but 4MB isn't a lot of memory.  1GB or more would start to be the size of memory I'm talking about.  Anything that's just a few megabytes in size is small enough that someone that wanted it badly enough could just put SRAM on-die.  CPUs and GPUs already have aggregate on-chip cache sizes that are 10 times that size, so 4MB is nowhere near large enough.  The data size has to be large enough so that the on-chip caches are useless, and remain useless over at least a 10 year period.  I would put that at something over 1GB.

We'll have to disagree on what constitutes "a lot", but even in YACoin, the effects of 4 MB hashes are taking their tolls.  You can't parallelize as many threads on today's GPUs as you can at lower N Factors.  A Radeon R9 290 with 2560 shaders would need 40 GB (no, not 4, 40!) to fully utilize the card.  Luckily, OpenCL is flexible, and we can adapt the code and recompile the OpenCL kernel we are using to utilize lookup-gap to give a larger effective memory size and thus use more threads.  If we were unable to change lookup-gap, the performance would degrade MUCH faster than 50% for every N-Factor change.  An ASIC is, by definition, a hard-coded piece of software in silicon format.  If they could utilize lookup-gap, it would need to be set in the design, and it would then be that balance between speed of the computations vs the amount of memory included.  But then, it will only work for a given N-Factor, so you'd have to switch to a different coin eventually.  How much dram can you fit in an ASIC die?  I would guess not enough to do more than a couple of hashes at a time, and unless the speed of the chip is significantly faster than today's GPU cores, I think we're still a long way off from ASICs for high memory (even 4 MB, NF=14) coins.


I'm not convinced that the only way to parallelize these algorithms is the way that it's being done currently.  It is often possible to write GPU codes where several threads or even a whole warp/wavefront work collectively on an algorithm step.  I haven't looked at the details of scrypt-chacha specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are alternative algorithm formulations other than the one you refer to.  The top-end GPUs today have 8GB to 12GB of RAM.  In the next two years, there will be GPUs and other GPU-like hardware (e.g. Xeon Phi) that will have significantly more memory than they do now, likely in the range of 32GB.  I've read analyst articles that expect that Intel will put at least 16GB of eDRAM onto the next Xeon Phi (though likely on its own separate die), a much larger scale variant of what Intel is already doing for integrated graphics.  Next week is NVIDIA's GPU conference, perhaps there will be some public announcements about what they're doing for their next-gen GPUs.
 
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