I ended up going used, still had to pay sales tax but at least not the 30% import tax.  Pretty sure with Trump tax that they'd be sure to collect on China imports.  (no chance of getting lucky and not getting a bill for it)

And by the way, you're not correct - taxes on imported goods are ALWAYS paid by the recipient/buyer.  It's only if it's a return item or something like that you can get around it, like someone is returning something you sold and shipped out of country (or if you're licensed as a repair shop and someone is sending you something to get fixed, and you're sending it back).

Same goes for sales tax - you owe it even if it's not collected, unfortunately.  It's the opposite - you owe it if it's for personal use; if you're a wholesaler, then you can get around it if you show the chain of custody to another wholesaler.  (Varies state by state probably on the exact implementation... since it is "state" sales tax after all... )

Thanks... However... are you in the U.S.?  The only kinds of taxes (on goods) here that are recurring are property taxes or perhaps luxury taxes in some states.

From what I read, there is the "De Minimis" threshold of $800.  There is also the $2,500 threshold where you need to provide tax id number.  I am just not understanding if neither of those apply anymore?  So even a $100 overseas shipment incurs import tax?

I've read on other gear forums when people import, that, when FedEx sends the broker's fee for import, they simply never pay it, and never hear anything else on the matter.  (I.e., they probably don't go to bat on collecting unless it's high dollar amounts.)  So maybe this is a moot point on a smaller purchase.  But if it incurs the China tax, that's a big one, of course.  (and makes the purchase not worthwhile at all)

@philipma1957 - I see you were active in this thread - you seem to do this on a regular basis and probably did so recently - I summon thee!

Is is true still that under $2,500 is duty free?  Or is the De Minimis now $800?  Thinking of getting some AntMiner S9 units now that the price came down, but if the limit is $800, I'll just get two of the September delivery at $310 each, rather than either higher quantity or the more expensive one week delivery ones.

Also, is there a minimum time I would need to wait to order two more?  (assuming keeping it under $800 is a worthwhile goal)  Or I could just do another order the day after, and as long as they ship separately, I'm good?  (or do they accumulate your 30-day, etc., import history, and tax for all of it on the second shipment in 30 or x number days?)

This seemed like the best thread with previous respondents to ask this in.  Will also probably ship to PA, as the one person mentioned.  If I will have to pay 28% + 6% no matter what, I might reconsider.

Yeah the ASICs just aren't worth it.  Only if BTC stays exactly the same or drops, is it worth it, actually!  (difficulty staying the same or going down and pushing out the higher power cost miners who can't do it profitably)  If BTC goes up - it's pointless, because the BTC sent to BitMain would have gone up too.  Always the same story.

Wish we could rent a time machine, then I could tell myself to wait to get GPUs secondhand a year later instead of at MSRP!  I guess they'll just stay the course for now and re-evaluate.  It is true, even if the bottom falls out on all GPU alts, they really won't drop more than now, not until maybe another generation of GTX comes out.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

And it's funny how eager people are to tell other people to just change their electricity - trust me, there are some situations where you just CAN'T...   (i.e., breaker panel is in your landlord's house, office, etc., not in your unit, and so on.)

Well now is the time to order, isn't it - was going to order but Bitmain's prices are just too high, $480 for the S9k, plus import?  I can get it for the same INCLUDING power supply on eBay from US sellers, so no point really.  6-8 months to ROI even with no power costs?  No thanks.  Difficulty will be 30-50% harder by then too.  There's just no margins left basically.  Maybe a huge facility with almost free power power and that cares enough to spend the $480 to hopefully eek out double that amount over the next three years of running the machine.

If Bitcoin were to double in the year, doesn't even make sense to buy one ASIC... difficulty will only pile on faster.  Even in 2017 when it was all time high, difficult was much lower than it is now.  The demand has been met, it would look like... only thin margins remain.

GPUs are still worth 40% of what they cost, but man, they'll keep dropping too.  Already been a year since the 20xx series were announced.

I was wondering about that - a year ago they still used to send me emails on new releases, I thought I unsubscribed - but perhaps they no longer do that?  And their Twitter seems sparse, if this is even the right one:
https://twitter.com/antminer_main?lang=en

So there's really no way to know nowadays except manually monitoring the page?

Just my speculation, but, next batch should be in next 2-3 weeks I assume for order right?  I was going to buy used but the prices are ridiculous.  (reseller prices too)  Twice as much as buying direct!  I assume they need to open another round of ordering in 2-3 weeks to have a September/October batch...

Well, I cannot change the wiring, that is out of my control.  The electricity is free but it has to be 120 volts only, unfortunately.

Anyway, the S9 can work on 120 volts just fine it appears, from all the various threads I've read.  (on 20 amp anyway; 15 amp is pushing it)  Maybe not much room to overclock, but 1400-1500 watts is pretty much a bit less than a space heater or many hair dryers on high (hair dryer is short term load I know, but space heaters are not, and I have many running in winter 24/7 with no shut off time at all).

Z11 wattage seems to be right on the edge of doable on 120V/20 amp... (1580 watts?)  I could do the minis to distribute the load better, but they are not cost-effective.

Glad you mentioned that Braiins OS - is that preferable now to that bulldozer one (don't remember the exact name) or ASICBoost (https://support.bitmain.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011930734-ASICBoost-firmware-for-Antminer-S9-series-and-T9-)?  Also, I read somewhere that newer batches don't allow custom firmware?  But also seemed that meant, they cannot be reflashed, but you can run custom firmware from SD card still, is that accurate?

I do tune my GPUs to fit better on the PSUs I have, so if I can count on being able to do that on S9, that would be sweet!

Final question - you say plan on a year to ROI?  The SHA-256 difficulty is not rising as fast as it used to though... Right now whattomine estimates $4.30 a day for 13 TH/s... rounding down to $4, that's $120 a month - even if I pay $600 per machine, and difficulty rises 25% in six months, I think by month 7 they're covered?  (don't forget, electricity cost is zero)  Or you think difficulty will still somehow double if BTC rises?  I was kind of thinking, maybe the SHA-256 hashrate is starting to get to a slower growth - newer machines aren't much faster on a per watt/joule basis... although if BTC goes to $50k, then I guess, sure, any old miner will find a place to get turned on again...

As a whole, I dunno.  It's hard to predict if GPUs will slow again.  Or if they'll magically rise.  (hard to see how, alts are taking a beating every time BTC rises lately, and NOT recovering when it dips!)  It would be a lot more exciting to get several Z11s, but riskier of course since they might double the capable hashrate in a few batches from now.  Whereas S9s will probably retain some decent used value if BTC stays the same, and one S9 at current earn rates would pretty much equal one GPU machine, for 1/5th the cost.

Edit: was just looking at a hashrate chart again - tough to predict.  It did go to all time highs recently.  But hard to tell if it will now grow as fast as it did in 2017.  I don't know if it's possible, if SHA-256 ASICs are slowing their efficiency increases?
https://www.blockchain.com/en/charts/hash-rate?timespan=2years

Hi everyone - I am thinking of shutting down a sizable GPU farm and switching everything over to ASIC.  Only issue is, while power is free, it can only be 120V wiring, no way to change that.  Breakers are 20 amps, with a couple 15 amps.

So I think any S9 will be ideal?  Whereas the more recent ones can only be 220 volts due to power supply being integrated with the unit.

Other unit I am considering is Z11, because judging from specs, I think it will do ok 120 volt 15 amps (and certainly on 20 amp breaker).

I was ready to start buying used S9s from Alibaba, but now that I see the new ones are only $350 with PSU direct from Bitmain, I guess it's better to just keep running things as they are until the next Bitmain order?

Also I am hesitant about Zcash (Z11), as not only is difficulty there going up rapidly, but price is also going down against BTC.  With BTC current activity, I am pretty sure we'll be seeing new highs by end of year.  I want to be aligned with that by having all machines that generate BTC directly, ideally.  Best I can do now is point machines at NiceHash instead of mining alts directly.

Thank you anyone for any thoughts, buying advice, etc.  I guess the downside with ASICs is still the same two years later - one has to plan on replacing all machines at LEAST once a year to stay relevant?  And ideally every 6 months, or every 3 months, and sell the old gear ASAP.  So, maybe not worth it at all if I don't want to be constantly trading up like that.

Also I don't know if anything has changed with Bitmain buying recently?  I saw they now require ID upload - says passport but I used driver's license, I assume that works.  I know one has to be "ready" to buy when the window for ordering opens up!

Thank you - I will check out that thread on the older ones and making them work on 120V!  [Edit - funny, that is one of the first ones I searched for and read yesterday. ]  I would love to change to 220V but, I cannot.  Building wiring is fixed and it is not my role to tell them what they can or cannot change.  Basically the space is an unused storage garage/shed.  I have had to let my GPU rigs run warm this year, last year I shut down half of them to keep stable temps under 80 deg F.

I am thinking it is best to just wait until I can order from Bitmain - I didn't realize they are still making S9 for example, and better than ever (16 TH on 1280 watts?  that is even better, almost fits on a 15 AMP circuit as-is!)... and $350, same price as the used ones from Alibaba!

The only things GPUs having going for them is they didn't lose as much value as ASICs from two years ago would have - BUT, there is MUCH more dollar value tied up in them.  So to me, even if new S9s only earn half as much in 6-9 months from now as they do today, they will still have covered themselves (something it will take another two years+ for my GPUs to do), and any extra funds I get back from selling my GPUs, I can just invest directly in bitcoin.

My electric is fixed/low cost (not per kWh), that is why I was saying the even older ones are a "safer" bet in that they pay their cost in 1-2 months.  But obviously very little return overall since I only have 120 amps to work with in total.

I think I just missed the last pre-order with BitMain, unfortunately I don't know why they priced the latest Z11 at?

Eastshore.xyz has a decent reputation it seems from searching various forums, they still have the Z11e for sale - $1,400 for them... but the "E" batch was only 70ksol, from my searching:
https://www.eastshore.xyz/shop/antminer-z11-zcash-asic-miner-135k-for-zcash-mining/

Soooo... I think the safest bet for recouping is to buy used S9, any generation (they're all similar anyway - 12-14 TH/s, right), from AliBaba.  Used from eBay or Amazon would cost $650ish.  But Alibaba used ones are $200-350 range, with power upply.  I figure if I over-provision by 20-30%, I will have some spares/spare parts too.

Also like I said, the Z11 machines are still ramping up hashrate fast, so it seems much riskier!  Feels like there could be a 500ksol machine by next year... whereas SHA-256 seems to be slowing down a bit in terms of how much hashpower per joule can be achieved.  (and if not per joule, at least per dollar in ASIC cost, which is what I'm more concerned about)

GPUs just aren't doing well.  Six figures invested and will still take years to recuperate.  (return is only $2k a month)  Better to take the 50% hit on the gear, and put most of it into ASICs at this point I think, especially with Bitcoin out of its doldrums.

Hello,

I am trying to figure out which miner is best.  I have 120 amps in total of 120V power I can use.  The newer S15 and S17 have built-in power so they cannot be configured to use 2x 120V power supplies, right?  So I think I am limited to the older S9, and even then might need to underclock a bit.  I do not have option of changing power, it's fixed.  (but also low rate)

The safest bet would be to buy the old S7 because they're cheap and on Amazon/eBay, and would recoup their cost in a month, but never would earn much.  (power supply would cost more than the machine).

Other thing I considered is Z11, that SEEMS to be ok at 1400 watts on a 20 amp breaker?  But very hard to find a reliable source to buy.  For example, the newest one is the 135ksol, but those are not out yet, are they?  I've contacted this company twice and they swear they have them in stock:

https://genimining.com/product/bitmain-antminer-z11-135ksol-s-zcash-miner-brand-new/

But I cannot find any mention of their site on this forum.  On the other hand, people vouch for that lakeshore xyz one all the time, and they don't have much in stock - either pre order for z11 or hydro S9.  But at least they show mostly out of stock, whereas this genimining.com has EVERYTHING in stock.  (But site looks well done otherwise, even better than the xyz site.)

Anyway maybe pre-ordering Z11 is better?  But, i don't want to get stuck in a "space race" ASIC.  Equihash miners have doubled their output a few times so far!  Whereas SHA-256 miners have leveled out a bit more.  Yes, the new S17 is almost four times the latest S9, but it uses a bit more power too, and costs a lot more.

Any other things I should look at?  Trying to get out of the GPU game, these things will never ROI and I fear there will be no more good GPU coins soon.