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1  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newegg Needs to accept bit coin. on: July 13, 2011, 03:08:31 AM
Now take the additional man hours it takes to convert these bitcoins into USD

There are APIs for all of this now.  They could be converted automatically, and immediately.

handle refunds

You convert the same number of USDs to BTCs using the market rate when the refund is issued.

Quote
Now if there was a premium associated with accepting bitcoins' at this particular time

Your logic seems odd to me.  To accept a payment method that costs less, you want to charge more?  

Maybe your business is booming right now and you aren't hungry.  A lot of businesses aren't that fortunate -- they'ld welcome new sales that might occur after accepting bitcoins as payment.

Ask Meze Grill, for instance, if they regret the idea of accepting bitcoin as payment:
 - http://bit.ly/l07wny

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Got "busy"...

I checked out the link you posted. A few things: they haven't had a customer use BTC as of when the article was written. They have a worry that I also share, current exchange rate. I'm not selling food. I'm selling products that cost hundreds of dollars, my margins are thin, and my total profit is a small percentage of my total gross sales. I could not, nor want to absorb a 3% market value decrease over the span of a month, never mind a day. I think you'd find this is the case with the vast majority of companies out there(99.99999%) Meze Grill have a QR code to accept payment, but they say nothing of the process after getting BTC. I know what I have to do to get funds from BTC, so I'm assuming that's they way I'd have to do it initially.

As of right now, bitcoins do not cost me less to use. I can't pay my vendors, employees, insurance, fuel, import fee's, taxes, etc... in BTC. I need to convert 100% of my BTC to USD. It takes far longer to get the funds into my account than through normal means.  So the value of BTC could decrease in value(possible), I will pay an exchange fee and a transfer fee to get funds into my account(given) and it takes 2x's longer to get funds.  Now I need to refund BTC? Start the process over....

Take into account the costs of setting up my system to do this automatically; I don't know how to use API's, now I have to pay someone. I have a  company that handles our systems but I would need to hire someone else to do this specialty work and coordinate with the other company to make sure my systems are still hardened (also on my dime). It turns into a headache for me, and I want to be able to accept bitcoins. Now that I've gone through all of that, I'm assuming that even one of my customers have/have enough bitcoins to spend.

This all leads back to charging a premium to use BTC as a method of payment. It's great that MEZE can sell a chicken sandwich for BTC, can they afford to sell pallets of chicken sandwiches?  Another example of current market conditions. Right now, TH has a last sell price of $13.95. 2 weeks ago I sold 2 BTC for $17.00. That's a -17.94% decrease in value.

Let's say hypothetically that I'm Newegg and accept Bitcoins. I sell 100 parts for an average of $50= $5000.  Convert that to BTC. $5000/13.95= 358.42*** BTC.   Market drops 3%= 358.42 BTC= $4850.00 or $13.53.  Newegg has documented profit margins of 1.4%, that's off their financials FYI. They spend $98.60 for every $100 they make. So to break even they would need to have made $4930.00 in USD. You project that out over 100k in sales and it becomes unbearable. Newegg does over 2 billion in sales....  Now Newegg has already gotten services in place to accept BTC. There is a tangible cost associated with this. You might put a QR code on your site in 5 minutes but it's a little more complicated than that for Newegg. They are now even further in the hole profit wise. Exchange fee's? Transfer Fee's? 1, just 1 person submits for a return and they have to give a refund on the USD value of the product(unless otherwise stipulated) They've lost even more....

$1 USD = $1 USD but $1 USD=0.071*** BTC(Subject to Market Rates)  Basically Newegg shoulders all of the risk for BTC currency, while all partners shoulder risk with USD.

In the end, it is too risky for large companies to accept BTC as a method of payment right now. The market is too volatile to shoulder that risk. Hopefully one day it'll work itself out.

2  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Are "lost" Bitcoins ever recovered? on: July 09, 2011, 03:19:58 PM
not really
3  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I'd like to buy 150bTc for 44$ each... on: July 04, 2011, 03:50:16 AM
Why would you do this?  They cost less at the moment.

Even if at the end of December they are worth $50 and you make a profit, you would have made more money by buying them at the current rate.

Let's say he doesn't have the money to buy them right now. He arranges an agreement where he can buy a product for a set price in the future. He might lose money, he might make a ton of money.. it's a gamble.

Now if he had the money to buy right now, he probably would. But let's say that he has a contract that pays net 120( seen it in agreements before) he obviously has no access to the money now but has a reasonable expectation that he will have the money in the future and wants to set a buy price where he has the potential to make a killing. $44 seems like a number he pulled out of his ass but for the sake of the argument it still fits.
4  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newegg Needs to accept bit coin. on: July 04, 2011, 03:37:29 AM
I don't think people realize that it's not as simple as making a form to pay with bitcoin and putting it on the site. Running a business isn't just taking money and giving a product out. You have to take a lot more things in consideration.

Like I said in a earlier post on this thread, Newegg has no use for bitcoin because they can't pay suppliers, shippers, or employees with BTC. They probably will never have a use for bitcoin as long as they wish to deliver things with low prices, and they will never be legally able to pay their employees in BTC in the USA*. Think of all the fees associated with BTC when the only use you have for it is turning it into money. You pay the trade site a commission, then you pay dwolla (or trade site for different method) an amount to withdraw those funds. All of that is done on a not as developed infrastructure, unlike credit cards. Yes they paid fee's with credit cards, but they also get a whole hell of a lot more protection in that way, since the fees from credit cards help pay towards anti fraud services and insurance. Does bitcoin really have any fraud protection other than people pointing out scams?

They don't get any benefit from internationally purchases, which could be easier with bitcoin, since they don't ship internationally.

Then there's also taxes, employee benefits, and other costs that can't be covered by bitcoin. Also, they would need to add more support and/or train support people to deal with BTC translations.

So in the end, if you were running this business rationally, with consideration of the well-being of your employees and business growth, would you accept bitcoin?

*If you disagree with this point, look how long it takes for any technology legislation to be passed or how informed the people deciding those things are. Hint: Most of them get money from businesses to insure that businesses interests.

I understand your point of view as I run a wholesale business myself. Fluctuation in pricing(even a little bit) can drastically undermine your bottom line. Now take the additional man hours it takes to convert these bitcoins into USD, handle refunds, etc...  There is no reasonable expectation that they will clear the same profit than were they to not accept them.

 I think a lot of folks simply look at the market rate and say hey! my bitcoins are worth $17.00. I'll give you 2 bitcoins for that $34.00 mouse pad. As a company, were I to accept bitcoins I would be skeptical that I would be able to get the funds I really need into a bank account to pay my creditors, employees, etc... in a timely manner. I don't have enough faith in the value yet. I know what my cost of goods are, I know to the penny what it costs to have an employee working for 1 hour or 41 hours. I know what I need to charge to break even, and I know what I need to charge to make a profit. A fluctuation in price of even .30$ could take me from profitable to break even or worse.

Now if there was a premium associated with accepting bitcoins' at this particular time (for arguments sake 1:1.25 I could reasonably justify accepting them for products that I stock and sell. Until that happens I would be very hesitant of tackling this animal.
5  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduce yourself :) on: July 03, 2011, 08:33:22 PM
Hello folks. "newbie" here looking to break free of this cage.

 Smiley

I like walks in the park, french movies from the 70's, and bouncing bitcoins off of strippers butt cheeks.
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