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Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?
Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution? Huh? Actually my question was an honest one, not a commentary. I assume the answer is yes? It does appear that shortening the shifts has increased your income. I wish I could say the same for mine. I thought the analogy would make it easier to see that your assumption is incorrect. Why do you think searching for something without finding it has no value or is not a valid effort? I think society would collapse if we started to think this way. Noone can tell the future and know when the pool will be lucky, so that they can mine here when we're lucky, and leave when the bad luck comes. If you saw them strike lucky once or twice, that's all it was. It doesn't mean they can tell the future. If they could actually predict the future, then yes, they could mine here only when the pool is lucky and your income would be reduced. It can't be done. Noone can tell the future. It's impossible. Sheesh, talk about putting words in my mouth. Best I shut-up and go away. Thanks for your time Doc. |
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PPLNS is not vulnerable to pool hopping.
There won't be a ban on part-time mining. If you mine in the pool your work gets paid the same way as everyone else's.
strongenough24 and theweiss could you edit your last posts to fix the quotes? You make it look like people said things they didn't say.
Sorry. Posting from my phone was a mistake. But I will say I did not ask for a ban on short term mining. I only said it looks like the shorter shifts have encouraged it. |
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Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns?
Imagine a group of police officers searching for a missing person. Then one of them finds that person. Would you say that only this one officer was doing his/her job and contributing? Should all the other officers be fired? Is searching without finding not a contribution? Huh? Actually my question was an honest one, not a commentary. I assume the answer is yes? It does appear that shortening the shifts has increased your income. I wish I could say the same for mine. |
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While your theory is correct the fact is since shift time has changed my earnings have dropped. This appears to be because the shorter shifts have encouraged big time renters to do what must be the equivalent of pool hopping. I would be okay with that if they stayed long enough to find blocks, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Granted my 24/7 408 Ghps is not finding blocks either, but my share is hardly noticeable compared to some of these renters. Is it time for the small miners to give up? Or can someone recommend a different pool?
Big hashers jumping in and out does not affect your pay: it decreases your pay per block but increases the number of blocks found, resulting in the same net pay on average. Since the pool has been lucky as of late your pay should have been better than normal. Ever increasing difficulty definitely decreases your pay if your hash rate remains constant. I think this is where the blame lies for your decreasing pay. The question about when to "give up" has more to do with your cost per hash than your total hash rate. If you already own the hardware it's simply a matter of comparing the cost of electricity to run it versus the income it produces. If you're really lucky and run you equipment somewhere you don't pay for the electricity then there is no reason to stop no matter how low the hash rate is. Aaron Am I incorrect in assuming that if a short time renter does not find a block, he has not contributed to the BTC the pool earns? |
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Since shift time has changed my earnings have dropped. This appears to be because the shorter shifts have encouraged big time renters to do what must be the equivalent of pool hopping. I would be okay with that if they stayed long enough to find blocks, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Granted my 24/7 408 Ghps is not finding blocks either, but my share is hardly noticeable compared to some of these renters. Is it time for the small miners to give up? Or can someone recommend a different pool?
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Imagine you do a little mining for a couple hours in the morning. Later you mine a couple hours in the evening. We find a block and both the morning and evening work is paid. Later we find another block and only the evening work is paid, as the morning work is no longer among the 10 latest shifts.
Now that the last 10 shifts can be accomplished in roughly 24 hours, it seems to me likely that a shift not paid could scroll off the list. In other words, the work is never paid. Am I thinking about this incorrectly? |
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Sorry if I'm slow here, but how can b and c both be true? Your members are charged a fee for mining BTC.
The assertion being answered was that I must be ripping people off if I don't charge an additional fee for my Bitcoin port. The point was that we don't charge additional fees on BTC+NMC rewards. I feel slightly better about Multipool since you have now changed your website to inform people they are paying a fee to Bitminter for mining BTC. Only one problem...you still don't have your story straight. You tell them Bitminter charges 1.5% fee. Good for Bitminter if the extra .5% is a donation, bad for your users that they are still ill-informed. From https://www.multipool.us/help.php: Q: What fees does this site charge? A: This site charges a 1.5% fee on all mined blocks, except for the Bitcoin pool which has a 0% pool fee. Our upstream pool (Bitminter.com) charges 1.5% which is passed on to users. User pays network transaction fee (see below) for PPC, NVC, CGB, and CAP withdrawals, and a transaction fee for on-demand withdrawals of less than the auto pay threshold of other currencies (see table below). Auto payouts and daily payouts are always fee-free. |
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We had some good luck and then some even luck. We haven't been having bad luck for some time. Look at the reward graphs at https://bitminter.com/stats/rewardsThe slightly bad luck I was talking about was Multipool alone. With their mining alone it is slightly bad luck that they haven't found a block yet. Which is completely normal. The pool as a whole is currently having even luck, though, because others are finding blocks. Some miners in the pool are having good luck while others have bad luck. The pool is evening this out. This is one of the nice things that pools do. The reward model at Bitminter does not punish you for coming and going. You can mine part time at the pool and the pay is still fair. Mining more does not change the pay you are going to get for the mining you already did. Like Blackjack, the hands you already played are done, there is no way to influence the winnings any more for those hands. But unlike Blackjack, the winnings have not been revealed yet. If you mine 12 hours per day at Bitminter, then you will on average make 50% of what you would get for mining 24/7. I say on average because the luck during the 50% you mine may not be the same as the 50% you don't mine. But over time that will even out. Bitminter is not vulnerable to pool hopping. That's a technique where you hop between pools, timing it so that you get paid more than your fair share. The reward model at Bitminter was chosen specifically to make this impossible. Whether you earn more or less at Bitminter when you jump in and out of the pool is completely random. There is no way to predict whether mining pay at Bitminter in the next few hours will be higher or lower than other pools. Pool hopping was a way that some miners earned a lot more bitcoins at vulnerable pools, at the cost of the miners who were not pool hopping. I believe there are still a couple pools that are vulnerable to pool hopping. But the art/scam of pool hopping seems to be forgotten - I don't think any miners are doing it anymore. You could try to switch between pools based on religious or superstitious beliefs. Maybe you believe luck is not random but related to karma or sin. Or maybe you believe that past luck influences future luck (this is called Gambler's Fallacy, you can read about it on Wikipedia). Maybe you belong to a Cargo Cult (also on Wikipedia) - you saw someone restart his miner and then he found a block. Now you believe restarting the miner increases the chance of finding blocks. All those beliefs go against all logic and science. I have never heard of anyone who is able to earn more bitcoins this way. But if you want to try it, you can. Bitminter won't punish your earnings for mining part time in the pool. Doc are you even paying attention? BTCGuild and Eligius users have both been ripped off by large users that withheld blocks. Being suspicious of an anonymous company that somehow claims to charge no fees mining BTC at your pool (guaranteeing themselves a 1% loss if they are honest) isn't being superstitious, it's being practical. a) I'm not anonymous, I'm very un-anonymous actually. Multipool is a company registered as CryptoFish, LLC in California as it states in our footer. I've posted numerous articles online using my real name. Our thread here is 275 pages: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167635.0 b) I don't lose anything by proxying our users' hash to Bitminter, the fees are passed through to the miners. c) My fee is 1.5% on the altcoins that we mine when we're not on bitcoin. People also donate. Since we're on Bitcoin about 80% of the time, we need a stable pool we can proxy our hash to. Unfortunately in order to attract BTC hash, you cannot charge a fee. This is because the two of the three largest BTC pools do not charge a fee (cex and Eligius). So it's not a simple matter to attract hashrate if you charge a fee, especially if you're a 'new' pool. Many miners expect the pool to be free, which is not reasonable imo, but there it is. d) We just moved to Bitminter a few days ago and I still haven't had time to change all the references to cex.io on the site. We are fully on Bitminter now, assuming we're on BTC and not on another coin. We have never mined on BTC Guild. Sorry if I'm slow here, but how can b and c both be true? Your members are charged a fee for mining BTC. |
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Wow... But on Multipool's home page https://www.multipool.us/ they have this announcement: Jun 08 1:53 PM Our switch to Bitminter is now complete and things seem to be operating perfectly. Our stale rate on Bitminter is only 0.02%! Please send email if you notice any issues. |
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I have a question...Multipool's website says they do not charge a fee for mining BTC. How could this be when they should be paying Bitminter? Do they get a special deal?
No response...ok. How about this then; if I can join Multipool and mine BTC for no fee ( https://www.multipool.us/help.php) does that mean I can mine Bintminter, through Multipool, for no fee? The only thing I have found on their website is they use a modified proportional payout. Is that the same as Bitminter? What is to stop all of Bitminter's miners pointing to Multipool's BTC port? Assuming Multipool does not get a special deal, I assume that their entire pool only pays Bitminter 1% per block. Their entire pool. I like Bitminter, but I am struggling to figure out why I should not point my miners to Multipool. Anyone? I was trying to figure out why it is good deal to join multi pool too. Would appreciate someone explaining other than they drift around and mine different alts. I logged into Multipool and looked closer at their numbers. If I read it correctly they avg about .00000005 BTC/Gh/day. Not good. |
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I have a question...Multipool's website says they do not charge a fee for mining BTC. How could this be when they should be paying Bitminter? Do they get a special deal?
No response...ok. How about this then; if I can join Multipool and mine BTC for no fee ( https://www.multipool.us/help.php) does that mean I can mine Bintminter, through Multipool, for no fee? The only thing I have found on their website is they use a modified proportional payout. Is that the same as Bitminter? What is to stop all of Bitminter's miners pointing to Multipool's BTC port? Assuming Multipool does not get a special deal, I assume that their entire pool only pays Bitminter 1% per block. Their entire pool. I like Bitminter, but I am struggling to figure out why I should not point my miners to Multipool. Anyone? |
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I have a question...Multipool's website says they do not charge a fee for mining BTC. How could this be when they should be paying Bitminter? Do they get a special deal?
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